[iSpoke]

Well, I'm not here to defend MSIL in any sense but we should look at others manufacturers too. Does it a problem with only New Alto, only MSIL or all across Indian Auto Manufacturers?

Originally Posted by jinojohnt

11. Engine temparature guage is missing. Now you may know about engine-over-heating only when a flashing light appears (and by that time it may be too late).

Isn't it the standard for many new cars? I know for sure VW Polo and Skoda Fabia don't have a separate Engine Temp gauge, the Alert just comes up when the Engine Temp exceeds certain permissible limit. I doubt, it wont be any late when the temperature warning comes up. They must have (my assumption) calibrate it in that way to warn the driver about high engine temperature, rather than just letting know of the blown-up engine! The Fiat Grande Punto has one!

Originally Posted by jinojohnt

16. Rear door child lock removed! But coming to think of it, I have never used the rear-child-lock because I am not comfortable with leaving kids alone in the car.
3. When Alto was exported to Europe, it had some build quality. Now that export to Europe is stopped, I feel the quality would degrade further on a year by year basis (signs are showing up already).
4. I feel that the step by step quality reduction is aimed at finally placing the Alto as the new Maruti800.

The child-locks are missing in most of the new age hatchback cars be it Polo, Fabia, Figo the list includes Punto.
[Please note that most of these cars though have a lock for rear-doors, has to lock/unlock it from open-door side with the key. We are discussing different feature by child-lock]

Not sure about reality but they market it as one of the Safety Feature as per Europe standards! So that you don't get yourself locked in case of accidents/floods.

As pjbiju has said, the cost-cutting should be there by means of process-improvement etc. not by compromising the Quality.

I feel at certain extent we the customers are responsible for promoting or forcing such quality-cutting measures. We (in general) are much more sensible about the On Road Cost at the time of owing the first ever CAR. We often even keep complaining about the higher cost of Tata Nano, and blame Tata-s that they didn't keep their promise of 1Lac price tag.
Forget the Alto, the World's number one automobile company is doing the same thing for us Indians, the interior of Toyota Etios will answer it. [No harm intended for Etios owners, nor to Toyota but "itne paise ma itna hi milega"]. This is the final way to stand in the stiff competition of mass market for the most populated countries like India & China. Sad but true we value few thousands bucks more than our Life. Well, you may have entire different customer base for products like Beetles and MINIs but how many?

Again, its just my view about the industry and not a counter-argument for defending MUL/MSIL cost-cuttings.

[jinojohnt]

Originally Posted by iSpoke

Well, I'm not here to defend MSIL in any sense but we should look at others manufacturers too. Does it a problem with only New Alto, only MSIL or all across Indian Auto Manufacturers?

No issues, comments taken in the right sense.

Originally Posted by iSpoke

I know for sure VW Polo and Skoda Fabia don't have a separate Engine Temp gauge, the Alert just comes up when the Engine Temp exceeds certain permissible limit. I doubt, it wont be any late when the temperature warning comes up.

I look at the temp guage in my old Alto and avoid flooring the pedal when the engine is cold. You may argue that I just need to be careful for the first few kilometers after starting the car, but I am more comfortable verifying the guage rather than assuming that the engine is sufficiently warm after a few kilometers. (Moreover, engines take longer to warm-up during rains and in the night, so we may need to drive more kilometers before assuming that the engine is sufficiently warm.) I think this is not a deal-breaker, but still a nice-to-have.

Originally Posted by iSpoke

I feel at certain extent we the customers are responsible for promoting or forcing such quality-cutting measures.

Valid point. Evident in the way non-ABS models outsell ABS models.

[indivic]

Originally Posted by iSpoke

Well, I'm not here to defend MSIL in any sense but we should look at others manufacturers too. Does it a problem with only New Alto, only MSIL or all across Indian Auto Manufacturers?

I was checking out an Indica CR4 cab last month when someone in the family hired one, I have an Indica from 2004, first thing I noticed was that the thickness of the door was definitely thinner on the new one as compared to mine and the sound when I closed the door was certainly tinny.

If we remember sridhar-v's thread newer Indicas rear camber alignment goes for a toss very frequently, so much that I am almost paranoid when someone tells me that they want to change something on the rear suspension of my car

So it is not restricted to MSIL, I am sure a Santro owner would pitch in their inputs about the latest one and their car

However we will never see this among other manufacturers because they would simply phase out that model and replace it with a new generation.

Only OEMs who want to milk an old model to the maximum would resort to doing this way simply because the inputs costs are going up.

Originally Posted by jinojohnt

Valid point. Evident in the way non-ABS models outsell ABS models.

So much that even a sales manager got cocky enough to tell my friend that he should not wait for a Dzire ZDI but go for a VDI, when we told him that we need ABS and Airbags, he had the cheek to tell us why spend money on something that we would never see

[DicKy]

Keen and good observations, i though that the cost cutting ended mainly at the rear badges, the badges being replaced by stickers.
I remember travelling in an Alto in 2003, was slightly surprised by the solid feel compared to 800/Zen, but recently when i got to drive one(2010 model), it felt more like an 800!!!
But omission of ash tray,passenger keyhole and child lock is

[samsag12]

Thats a real eye opener jinojohnt. Never thought that the new & old Alto had so much differences.

I completely agree with most people here about the quality of sheets used by MUL for the body. My 2010 LXi model is parked next to a 2001 1.1 VXi model. Both bear the brunt of the tree under which they are parked. Now every now and then many things fall off the tree on the VXi but there isn't any noticeable damage whereas there were a couple of instances when a small twig fell on the bonnet of my LXi and it left a deep irreparable ding.
I sometimes wonder if the paint is more costlier than the panel itself.
What to say, Jai ho Maruti engineers ki for providing us cars with paper thin body.

[iSpoke]

Originally Posted by jinojohnt

I look at the temp guage in my old Alto and avoid flooring the pedal when the engine is cold. You may argue that I just need to be careful for the first few kilometers after starting the car, but I am more comfortable verifying the guage rather than assuming that the engine is sufficiently warm after a few kilometers. (Moreover, engines take longer to warm-up during rains and in the night, so we may need to drive more kilometers before assuming that the engine is sufficiently warm.) I think this is not a deal-breaker, but still a nice-to-have.

Never knew that temp gauge could be useful in that way. Yeah, that would have definitely helped as you described. I started my first lesson on gauge-less car only, so didn't miss it! Just have to stick with the judgement only.

[racer_ash]

Originally Posted by samsag12

Thats a real eye opener jinojohnt. Never thought that the new & old Alto had so much differences.

I completely agree with most people here about the quality of sheets used by MUL for the body. My 2010 LXi model is parked next to a 2001 1.1 VXi model. Both bear the brunt of the tree under which they are parked. Now every now and then many things fall off the tree on the VXi but there isn't any noticeable damage whereas there were a couple of instances when a small twig fell on the bonnet of my LXi and it left a deep irreparable ding.
I sometimes wonder if the paint is more costlier than the panel itself.
What to say, Jai ho Maruti engineers ki for providing us cars with paper thin body.

I too agree that MUL is slowly but surely compromising on the quality of materials that they are using. Input costs are increasing by the day and in this extremely price sensitive segment, it is not always possible to pass on the price to the consumer.

[vinya_jag]

@jinojohnt
I completely am with you. And am of of the feeling that the Alto should have maintained the quality than going cheap.

We have 2 Alto's in our house. One from 07 and one from 08. I see a considerable difference in the way the door shuts on the 08 Alto.
And off late got into my friends All new Alto (11 model) and was horrified on seeing the inside.

Its just not the interior quality that has gone down. All the major components also have lost a little weight I feel. The clutch plates, the gearbox all might have lost some of the solidity. The 08 Alto clutch plates wore out within 10K Kms. The 07 ones are doing fine even after 18K.

[Daewood]

Originally Posted by iSpoke

The child-locks are missing in most of the new age hatchback cars be it Polo, Fabia, Figo the list includes Punto.
[Please note that most of these cars though have a lock for rear-doors, has to lock/unlock it from open-door side with the key. We are discussing different feature by child-lock]

I don't understand what you guessed as child lock.
What you've mentioned is what a child lock is. In some cars it's just a small lever which can be operated by your finger, wheras in Skoda and other Euro cars it's a lever which can be operated only by the key.

[vkarulkar]

@ Jihno jont: Nice observations and comparison.
I feel maruti is trying to replace Alto with Alto k10.
All features, which you mentioned in your old alto, are available in My Jan 2012 K10.
When i bought, i was thinking of 800 cc alto However, price differance was of merely 40k between alto LXi & K10 VXi.
At 40k expenditure, what i got was:
1. All features of Old alto you mentioned
2. Front Power windows
3. Parcel tray and all those stuff- Not much interested in interiors and all
4. Better engine. Its returning me 18~19 kmpl on highway use (100-110 kmph, AC On & 3 passengers)
5. Merely any AC lag- felt below 2000 RPM
6. Tachometer ( i was ready to pay
7. Fog lamps
8. Central locking
9. Meatier, 3 spoke steering wheel.
10. 165/65-13 tyres
I spent extra, basically for Engine, Tacho & tyres. but now i feel what i got is better deal.

[iSpoke]

Originally Posted by Daewood

I don't understand what you guessed as child lock.
What you've mentioned is what a child lock is. In some cars it's just a small lever which can be operated by your finger, wheras in Skoda and other Euro cars it's a lever which can be operated only by the key.

yep, that is a child lock but most people who are used to operate it by a small lever on the driver-side door handle often ask me where is the child lock? then how to lock the rear doors in a moving car? They refer to that older style (not sure if it still comes with some cars) centralized lock lever on driver-side door which upon pull/push locks/unlocks all doors from inside. I mean after that, a person on back side could not open the doors with the help of indoor handles.
That has the luxury of operating it on a moving car, but heard that that also has the disadvantage of locking oneself in case of short-circuit due to accident/flood etc.

I really havn't have the experience of that older style (lever operated) locks with me behind the wheel but could imagine it would be quite simpler to turn on/off it while driving. Whereas in Skoda and most new cars one has to stop the car, open the rear doors and then lock it one by one with the help of finger/key.

[Daewood]

Originally Posted by iSpoke

I really havn't have the experience of that older style (lever operated) locks with me behind the wheel but could imagine it would be quite simpler to turn on/off it while driving.

Even today non-Euro cars come with that lever. That is just a driver operated central locking mechanism and cannot be called a child lock.
The child lock has always been kept hidden behind the doors, whether it's european, asian or american car.

Originally Posted by iSpoke

Whereas in Skoda and most new cars one has to stop the car, open the rear doors and then lock it one by one with the help of finger/key.

That's exactly why it is called a Child lock. Kids are too smart and they'll learn to operate the lever, unless it's physically out of bounds for them.

[viggienomad]

In our 2004 Alto LX, we had to replace a door glass pane last year. It was cracked due to a tiny stone thrown up from a speeding Innova's tyre - on 4-track highway (it's a freaky thing, but the road was littered with tiny stones due to frequent sand laden lorries - it was near Palar river on Chennai - Trichy NH47).

It was replaced at MASS. Even by feeling the thickness at the glass tip with fingers, the new glass is noticeably thinner than the glasses in other doors.

[dezmo007]

Good review here. Apart from the discount offered, is there any other reason why your dad opted for a second Alto in the family?

[jinojohnt]

Originally Posted by dezmo007

Good review here. Apart from the discount offered, is there any other reason why your dad opted for a second Alto in the family?

Dad refused to test drive an Eon that was sent home, simply because he had finalized the Alto (the sole deciding factor was the discount). And he bought the Alto without a loan