[antz.bin]

Originally Posted by sandeepmdas

Did you know the number of Puntos and Lineas Fiat sold last month? Exactly 1000 cars in APR and 1415 cars in MAR 2012.
http://www.team-bhp.com/forum/indian...nalysis-5.html

Tata has 172 or so dealers and let us say Fiat will sell 2500 cars per month through 170 dealers. That's roughly 15 cars per month per dealer.

Now read GTO's question again and you can see the meaning of it.

Not all Tata Car dealerships sell Fiat cars. There is no way to buy / service a Fiat car in Nasik even though one of the biggest TATA dealerships (in terms of volumes) in the Western region happens to be there (Sterling Motors).

Tata ASCs do not stock parts for older Fiats like the Palio / Siena / Petra.

If they can support their older customers properly, we will definitely see a rise in the confidence levels the general Public have in the brand.

[selfdrive]

Originally Posted by ajay_satpute

Renault and Nissan may look good to a layman Indian buyer, but what the layman doesn't know is how HUGE is the Fiat group and how small Renault and Nissan are. In India, perception is hampering the brand, but outside India, its one heck of a brand.

I do agree that we should not predict outcomes at the moment.

However, after reading the quoted statement (above) I was tempted to look this up and here are the figures from 2010 (source http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fiat & http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Renault).
Renault is not really that small! and I am not sure it includes the numbers for Nissan

Category - Renault - Fiat
Production output - 3,195,810 -2,094,048
Revenue - €42.628 billion - 35.88 billion
Operating income - €635 million - 992 million
Profit - €3.42 billion - 179 million
Total assets - €70.11 billion - 73.44 billion
Total equity - €22.76 billion - 12.46 billion
Employees - 128,322 - 137,800

Edit: Mods, can someone please convert this into something that looks like a table!

[vb-saan]

Originally Posted by ajmat

Only way might be to sell fancy niche cars in limited areas

That might be a good idea. For the no. of cars they are selling, do they really need a wide network like a Tata or Suzuki? The limited no. of Fiat enthusiasts anyway will still go for it – irrespective of the service network.
And they still can continue to be profitable in India with the MJD engine sales.

Originally Posted by ajmat

Only way to attract dealers are to sell high margin items - enter Jeep and Alfa Romeo

High margin items, and highly expensive for the buyer as well. These cars again will have to be in those niche sales group. And Alfas in general is not known for their reliability. Jeep has a better chance due to our market’s love of SUVs

[FastLove]

Originally Posted by ajmat

Only question - it took Fiat, four years to realise this alliance was not working!

The agreement with Tata was for a period and only after that agreed Time frame had expired could either of the two Exit the Relation. That explains the timing of the news now.

[GTO]

Originally Posted by Driving_Nomad

There is surely a source of income although the profitability is not comparable to Maruthi or Tata or even Hyundai for that matter.

The Tata-Fiat JV has run into losses for the last 2 or 3 years. The Economic Times recently revealed some numbers. I was surprised myself, and would have thought selling all those engines would go straight to the bottomline.

Exactly, if new comers (in the Indian market) can do it, why can't FIAT?

Sometimes, it's easier to start with a new brand (that people are open to) than a brand that ticks potential buyers off. The Fiat brand in India has waaaaaaaaaaay too much baggage. Starting on a clean state is easier than one that's damaged.

Originally Posted by sandeepmdas

IMO, rather than creating a dealer network FIAT should try to open company-owned showrooms/service points in their 22 select cities for a start.

This is actually a fabulous idea! Fiat will have a hard time finding any potential dealers. Best to invest themselves. The numbers are negligible compared to what they've already invested in the country.

Originally Posted by MurtazaGhiya

A smart businessman is one who will create an opportunity for himself and not use an opportunity already created by someone else.

A smart businessman will also consider what happened to previous dealers who had invested in the brand, what is the brand's marketshare and, most of all, the street reputation. Remember, we aren't talking about a couple of lakhs here. A dealership in a metropolitan city requires an investment of 10 - 20 crores.

Originally Posted by Driving_Nomad

Please take into account the business that comes in the name of servicing and repairs. IMO, a dealership makes more money out of servicing than sales.

And you can make more money out of the servicing component from a brand that sells MORE new cars. If there was so much money to be made in Fiat service centers, perhaps the majority of dealers who abandoned the brand 5 - 7 years back wouldn't have. Fact is, they were making huge losses.

[rameshnanda]

Fiat now invites new dealers - check out at www.fiat-india.com

[vroomsome]

Fiat is a brand that has historically polarized people. you either love Fiat or you hate it. There are no objective opinions about this company as we have seen time and again on teambhp. This move by Fiat is definitely in the right direction. unlike what many haters would have liked, this development is testament to the companys intent on improving the service in India. They refuse to roll over and die. As a Fiat owner I applaud this positive step towards a hopefully more successful run in India. Then again this is yet another polarized opinion

[Omtoatom]

Is this applicable to after-sales service as well?

If that's the case, personally, I'm ambivalent to this piece of news. I've had a Linea for almost 3 years now and in that period, I cannot confidently say that I have anything to complain against the local dealership - which btw has since gone on to become my preferred service provider as well. Over the months, those guys have been consummate professionals and have, oftentimes, bent over backwards to accommodate my requirements, even accede to my demands! Costs and timelines have been managed at pretty acceptable levels. Fiat clearly leverages Tata's strengths quite effectively. Obviously being a TATA dealership, their mission statement is heavily influenced by the Group's philosophy of being squarely focused on the customer. As you'd come to expect of the TATAs, any hanky-panky is strictly taboo. Dealings have been clean and transparent and the overall service has been fairly commendable.

My experience could be an aberration rather than the norm. However other Linea/Punto owners that I know around Mumbai have not given me a contrary viewpoint either.

So Fiat revving away from Tata dealerships may turn out to a bit of a two-edged sword for the customer. I'm not entirely sure Fiat has the wherewithal at this point to set up an exhaustive distribution network on their own (even less a service network) and yet at the same time, guarantee reach and quality.

[ASHISHPALLOD]

Originally Posted by sandeepmdas

GTO is not biased.

@GTO,
I think you forgot to edit the above line in the post of sandeep, he commented it with ref to Ajay's deleted post.
As that post is deleted, sandeep's comment about you should also get deleted.
Just kidding.

Originally Posted by FastLove

FIAT makes safe cars , builds them like a tank , Saves the occupants of the car ; but cannot safeguard the Dealers .

Most "Others" make not very safe cars , puts occupants at Risk but gives "excellent Dealers"

We choose the Latter

@fastlove,
three three smileys in a post, good luck!!

If Fiat do not find any takers for its dealership, they should seriously consider AmWay type chain marketing.

[fiat_tarun]

I'm sure there's more that has not yet been revealed. Like most members have mentioned, no body will invest in a Fiat dealership with their current line up of cars. I'm sure potential dealers will be made aware of their whole plan.. be it with bringing in new models or other Fiat Brands.

There was an article sometime back that spoke of Fiat offering dealers 8% margins as against 5% which is the industry standard. Also, like somebody has mentioned, we have people investing in Premier dealerships. I'm sure it won't be too hard for Fiat.

[ashwin489]

Originally Posted by FastLove

Oh! Time for desperate measures, is it ?!

All the problems are mostly with people who don't own the FIAT but like to hear a piece of FIAT news and then suggest strategies to rescue the company.

I am no alarmist, but priding on Fiat's legacy and gazillion accomplishments does not help the company gain competitive or rake up sales. And sorry to burst your bubble, unfortunately perception is EVERYTHING! I wish good products sold themselves.

As a personal note, I would buy a punto in a heartbeat if it had a service center in my town and if there was an automatic transmission in it.

[addyhemmige]

For a Fiat owner (I am one), it is a very confusing time. There is no clarity on the service and whether Tata will continue servicing the current lineup of cars or not. This issue has been on my mind even when my dad bought the Linea about 2 years ago. The question always was 'Will they or will they not' survive/stay in India, considering the poor sales figures seen month after month.

I am not a very big fan of Fiat, but I do believe they make very good cars (the Linea being one). I have but one grouse with the car; the engine. I know this has been discussed again and again, but a bigger engine (a 1.6l MJD maybe?) would probably have resulted in more sales. The current performance of the 1.3MJD was definitely a factor in the low sales.

Originally Posted by Driving_Nomad

May be they had plans of moving out of the sales JV and wanted to wait to introduce the 1.6MJD.

One of the salespersons in Concorde Motors on Mysore Road in Bangalore had told me the same thing. Apparently, he was a fan of FIAT cars (by his own admission), and he asked me to wait until June to make a decision for buying a new car (I was there for a T-Jet test drive; awesome car). He said that if Fiat launches the 1.6L MJD, it would have to share the engine with Tata.

[cranky]

Originally Posted by rameshnanda

Fiat now invites new dealers

And the troubles begin afresh.

Given that almost all car dealers of any calibre and experience are totally locked out, what is left is the riffraff.

One of the biggest woes of VW has been the ground level support - for this very reason. Only dealers who weren't up to scratch with the bigger guys have moved to VW, and now Fiat must select dealers on its own steam (which isn't much). I expect trouble, with some amount of desperation from Fiat's side that will lead to unfavorable terms, and nonchalant and uncaring dealers. With Tata at least there was the name to back things up. I sense a return to the early part of the millennium.

On service, after experiencing Maruti, GM and Honda from close quarters, what I got in terms of service from the Tata outlet was good. One must note that brands have very little to do with service. The service engineers come from similar backgrounds and the talent pool is similar. What matters is how that specific franchisee runs their operation, and I was OK with mine. Not ecstatic, but satisfied.

Now I don't know whether to be worried or happy.

I for one hope they get it right.

[MCR]

Wow! I am simply amazed at reading the responses posted by BHPians. Somebody on the second page of this thread has even gone to the extent of saying that Fiat should shut shop in India and get lost! And the same post metions that once Suzuki starts making its own diesel engines, Fiat would be in the doldrums!

I am sure people at Fiat India are learned enough to take decisions. Also, I am sure they have to take the approval from the Fiat Board in Italy before taking such decisions. So all in all there is defenitely a business plan in place and surely there are enough risk evaluations done. So only time will tell as to how this move will figure out to be.

[prakash_ajp]

Originally Posted by ajay_satpute

This is the exact problem Prakash. Like you, many others think that when someone talks good about FIAT, they are FANBOYS. I was making a point from business perspective and about giving a fair chance to FIAT as a company to prove their mettle.

I am sure if someone talks on similar lines about HONDA or VW, they wont be termed fanboys.

World is weird, sometimes.

Well, first of all, I don't really know what exactly that term means or when it is used. I was merely suggesting that owning a great car and selling them are two different things. When I bought my Linea about 15 months ago, I knew I was taking a risk. But I also knew it was worth the risk. Well, worst case, I can convince myself, 'okay, that hassle with the service folks or the rattle is definitely worth the great time I had on that drive'. And thus, personally, I have given fiat a chance.

However, if I put myself in a dealer's shoes, I doubt if I can gather so much courage to go with Fiat, because lot more will be at stake. Whether you like it or not, it purely becomes a number game. In the business world, 'hope' alone can't be a deciding factor. Neither does the pride in what you are selling count for much. If I were the dealer, I will start asking myself questions; what are the odds that the company could turn it around? Should I wait for sometime to see how things shape-up and make a decision?