[sharninder]

The numbers seem par for course but I'm actually surprised that Fiat is still selling about 1000 units total. This is even after the ambiguity over the future of Fiat in India. Infact, Fiat is doing better than Renault. I thought the Pulse was selling decently enough but only 482 number for all their cars. This will definitely tilt in Renault's favor with the Duster's launch.

[nair]

The number of car manufacturer's who seem to be taking a carefree attitude towards the Indian market is alarming. Nissan, Renault, Mitsubishi, Ford, VW all have great products and have the capability and potential to really come up. Overpriced below-par cars with thin service network is not helping things either. Even Toyota tries to feed us garbage in the form of Etios/Liva (nothing against the car but will Toyota launch it in Europe/Americas?). Chevy launching outdated Sail twins is also going down the same path. Overpriced Fiesta/Polo Diesel are also cases of unfair instances towards the Indian car market. It feels as if only Maruti and Hyundai is putting some kind of effort and they are being rewarded. Maruti for their reliability/service network and Hyundai for bringing their feature rich, global products to India. I doubt if any other manufacturer would have managed the figures what Maruti has achieved by launching Ertiga? It is strange the other car companies still haven't learnt the lesson.

Isn't it strange that with the kind of reputation that the Japanese has, the Mitsubishi doing nothing to come out of last place? I remember a time when the roads were ruled by good ol' Lancer, atleast in Kerala. That being said, KUDOS to Honda. They had a tough year but still managed good numbers. Cheers!!

[nkrishnap]

Originally Posted by nair

Even Toyota tries to feed us garbage in the form of Etios/Liva (nothing against the car but will Toyota launch it in Europe/Americas?).

This is taking thing a little too far. Etios and Liva are built to a cost with enormous amount of cost cutting. But calling it as garbage is not right .

May be you could teach Toyota a thing or two or you could make a better car than what Toyota is making and become a competitor to Toyota. I really do not mind if you take it offensive.

These sort of posts really downgrade a forum like team-bhp.

[sarathlal]

Originally Posted by nkrishnap

Etios and Liva are built to a cost with enormous amount of cost cutting.

But why should Toyota go the Tata way? Build a cost effective product and say that the product offers only this much, because we are taking from you only this much. This is not the right way of offering a product to the consumer. Alto's and M800's are the classic example of cost effective products but still have minimum set of quality associated with it.

Just my opinion though, because when ARR launched Etios, i had a different picture of the car in mind, which was not the case in reality :(

After all, its all these aspects that contribute to a product finding a place in this kind of high quality thread's front page/last page.

[gupta_chd]

Originally Posted by nkrishnap

This is taking thing a little too far. Etios and Liva are built to a cost with enormous amount of cost cutting. But calling it as garbage is not right .

May be you could teach Toyota a thing or two or you could make a better car than what Toyota is making and become a competitor to Toyota. I really do not mind if you take it offensive.

These sort of posts really downgrade a forum like team-bhp.

I support nair in his context. Cost cutting is justifiable to some extent and after such pathetic quality feel, lighweight, Toyota displays the badge of Toyota quality.

This has been a grave mistake from the brand which was seen with huge respect.

[teamveevee]

Originally Posted by nair

Even Toyota tries to feed us garbage in the form of Etios/Liva (nothing against the car but will Toyota launch it in Europe/Americas?).

If Indians are willing to grab the Garbage as long as it is from a Japanese, why would Toyota change a thing? No matter what we say, Etios/Live is selling in good numbers. That is not the case in NA, they were not able to sell Echo or Yaris in US. But Americans dont have any hesitation in buying Camri and Corolla. So please dont blame Toyota, but blame ourselves. If we dont buy this Garbage, there is no choice for Toyota.

[nair]

Originally Posted by nkrishnap

This is taking thing a little too far. Etios and Liva are built to a cost with enormous amount of cost cutting. But calling it as garbage is not right .

My father had 2 Toyota's - the Corolla and the Camry over a period of 10 years. You can say I grew up admiring Toyota brand. In fact the white toyota corolla is one of the earliest memories I have. I still love that car. What I meant to say in my earlier post is Etios/Liva is not one would expect from a Toyota brand. And if I recall correctly lots of members of this forum expressed similar thoughts on various threads.

Originally Posted by nkrishnap

May be you could teach Toyota a thing or two or you could make a better car than what Toyota is making and become a competitor to Toyota. I really do not mind if you take it offensive.

No, I do not find it offensive. I find it little amusing though. Just because I can't build a car does that mean I have no right to express my thoughts on a car? If so, how can a forum like team-bhp exist? I am sorry but please do not take this the wrong way (I do mind if I offend you) but I shall continue to express my thought in an appropriate manner in this forum.

Originally Posted by nkrishnap

These sort of posts really downgrade a forum like team-bhp.

I assure everyone this was not my intention at all.

I somehow feel the point of my post was missed. I was just trying to explain how some car companies don't take the Indian car market seriously.

P.S:- I didn't mean to offend anyone or any car, just was frustrated about the way some manufacturers operate which I feel is unjust sometimes. I do not wish to discuss this further as I do not want this thread to go OT. I offer peace.

[gkoneti]

The way Toyota did marketing for Etios and Liva gave a different picture in car buyer mind. The car was totally marketed on single point, "QUALITY". But it proved to be totally wrong once we saw it in flesh. The reason Etios is still selling because of Taxi segment. Look at the Delhi airport taxi stand and you will understand where the Etios are getting sold.

[amalji]

Manza sales seemed to have dipped from a consistent 7,000 plus to 3000 plus ( for 2 months in a row ) after the release of Ertiga. Is Ertiga feeding on the Potential Manza customers ?

And with regards to the discussions on Etios, Etios provides amazing drivability ( for both Petrol and Diesel ). I'm at 15,000 kms now. Extremely pleased with the performance and support, I get from Toyota till now.

Yes, the interiors don't look good. The NVH is not best in class. But, for the price it is offered at, Etios offers excellent drivability, loads of space, and superb handling. Add to that, the low maintenance cost and support from Toyota dealerships. Overall, it's a practical car. Not for the ones, who care more about the looks than the utility.

[vroomsome]

Originally Posted by gupta_chd

I support nair in his context. Cost cutting is justifiable to some extent and after such pathetic quality feel, lighweight, Toyota displays the badge of Toyota quality.

This has been a grave mistake from the brand which was seen with huge respect.

Besides quality, the Toyota badge is synonymous with reliability. some value these more than the fit , finish and feel of the car. The Corolla was never known for its refined cabin feel. yet it sells by the boatloads the world over. Toyota I think understands the market quite well and are also positioned well for the Indian market. One will see Livas Nd etios running long after all the competitors have gone to their graves. Reliability is a wonderful thing of quality

[nkrishnap]

@Nair. Glad that you did not find it offensive.

The way now you have penned down is far better and goes with the forum decorum.

Agreed that Toyota could have done better. But if Toyota believes this the product that masses buy ans sell it that way. Its the masses to be blamed.

[echo77]

Not sure if this fits in this thread.

Today, Honda sent every City owner (in Goa) a 1 kg chocolate cake for total sales crossing 5 lakh City cars (maybe in total over the years)

My kids had demolished it before I could take pics but apparently it was written in icing on the cake.

[blue_pulsar]

I have few things to say about Toyota Etios:
1. Cost cutting works in 800/Alto territory. Top-end Etios D costs ~9.4L and Liva D costs ~7L, OTR Bangalore. In this price bracket, people won't compromise on something that looks cheap. In comparison, Dzire D top end costs ~8.7L OTR Bangalore. Dzire looks ugly alright but doesn't look cheap.

2. Etios looks like the Toyota Echo which was sold in UAE/US half a decade back (Toyota Echo). I believe eventually Yaris replaced it. If Toyota had sold Yaris here, it would have been a runaway success. Comparatively, Hyundai, Suzuki, VW, Fiat sell their latest products here, in this price bracket. Indian public are more exposed to international trends nowadays.

3. Brand name alone doesn't sell in India anymore.

[volkman10]

May car sales rise just 2.8 per cent!

Automakers sold 163,229 cars in the domestic market in May, according to data released by the Society of Indian Automobile Manufacturers SIAM on Monday.
Sales of trucks and buses rose 9.1 per cent in May to 62,025 vehicles. Motorcycle sales rose 7.2 per cent to 887,634 vehicles.

May car sales rise just 2.8 per cent - The Economic Times

[aroonanand]

Originally Posted by blue_pulsar

I have few things to say about Toyota Etios:
1. Cost cutting works in 800/Alto territory. Top-end Etios D costs ~9.4L and Liva D costs ~7L, OTR Bangalore. In this price bracket, people won't compromise on something that looks cheap. In comparison, Dzire D top end costs ~8.7L OTR Bangalore. Dzire looks ugly alright but doesn't look cheap.

2. Etios looks like the Toyota Echo which was sold in UAE/US half a decade back (Toyota Echo). I believe eventually Yaris replaced it. If Toyota had sold Yaris here, it would have been a runaway success. Comparatively, Hyundai, Suzuki, VW, Fiat sell their latest products here, in this price bracket. Indian public are more exposed to international trends nowadays.

3. Brand name alone doesn't sell in India anymore.

Agree totally with you here.

Having stayed in the Middle East and traveled in Yaris, I can say that the car is far better than the Etios which is sold in India. I cant understand why they had to rejig the Yaris, which was in any case the base sedan for Toyota, and create the Etios. The Yaris had a far better design, was more pleasing to the eyes and much better interiors.

They only had to change the car from the Left Hand Drive to Right, and bring in a manual transmission for India (with the Diesel option thrown in too)

With all the deficiencies in the Etios it is soon becoming the next Indigo / Logan - most fleet operators (EasyCabs in Delhi, MegaCabs I am told are commencing Blr operations with an all Etios fleet, Tab Cabs in Mumbai) are gobbling up hundreds of Etios which must be boosting its sales. After all, it has space, minimal features and a frugal engine, nothing else really !