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Old 22nd December 2015, 21:32   #151
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Default The Diminishing Value of D1 Segment Sedans (Altis, Cruze, Civic, Laura et al)

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Originally Posted by arvind71181 View Post
all those features would not be available in any C segment car. Having said that, I would never have the guts to buy a VW car which has done 98k kms though. Wish you many more trouble free miles with the car.

Hahahaha. I like the way you put it. But on a serious note, I think it is spot on to say that in India, you really need guts, and a lot of it at that, to buy an old D segment car and that to one that has clocked close to a lac kilometers!

But to each his own priorities. Personally, Functionality and mechanical soundness takes top priority for me when purchasing an old boy. And feature list comes way down the list for me and that also depends upon how much cash I can afford for the given features list.

Old D segment cars have a market rate of about 5-6 lacs even if they originally might have cost even 20 lac or more mainly because whatever repairs these cars demand after all those kilometers goes into lacs alone. Turbos, clutches, steering components, ac parts, all spine chilling words when dealing with these bad boys. Even the thought is scary. You really have to count on your lucky stars to put your money here. And if those stars happen to be on the lesser side then the money you spend on repairs here could easily add up almost to the money needed for a new C-segment car! Just my two cents.

Last edited by pixantz : 22nd December 2015 at 21:34.
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Old 23rd December 2015, 12:16   #152
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Default Re: The Diminishing Value of D1 Segment Sedans (Altis, Cruze, Civic, Laura et al)

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Originally Posted by arvind71181 View Post
Congrats buddy!!! You are right that all those features would not be available in any C segment car. Having said that, I would never have the guts to buy a VW car which has done 98k kms though. Wish you many more trouble free miles with the car.
Arvind,The purchase decision was more from the heart.But i did go through the entire service history and only after being convinced that it had been through all services and nil accident history.But as you said,any used car can throw up surprises anytime and gotta live with it.I guess my risk appetite is bit high and i don't think i can afford a new D-segment car any time soon.To each his own

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Hi Sam.k

Congrats on your acquisition!

From what I gather, you have gotten hold of a PD engine Jetta with a DSG gearbox. Take care of her well through routine maintenance and she will keep going on and on!

I have been using the same engine+gearbox, albeit in a different car - the Skoda Laura, for the past 5 years. This is a fine combination and the PD engine, even though not as powerful/silent as the CRDI units, is more durable than it's common rail counterpart (the 2.0 TDI) - my car is now at 1,10,000 KM and it's still running like clockwork. My family regularly does Kochi-Bangalore runs with her and she performs these duties admirably.

Best Regards
Goblin- Yes ,you are right and i've been kind of obsessed with the model ever since i did a 800km round trip on my friends Jetta.The kind of build, safety and confidence it offers is commendable to say the least.

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Originally Posted by pixantz View Post
Hahahaha. I like the way you put it. But on a serious note, I think it is spot on to say that in India, you really need guts, and a lot of it at that, to buy an old D segment car and that to one that has clocked close to a lac kilometers!

But to each his own priorities. Personally, Functionality and mechanical soundness takes top priority for me when purchasing an old boy. And feature list comes way down the list for me and that also depends upon how much cash I can afford for the given features list.

Old D segment cars have a market rate of about 5-6 lacs even if they originally might have cost even 20 lac or more mainly because whatever repairs these cars demand after all those kilometers goes into lacs alone. Turbos, clutches, steering components, ac parts, all spine chilling words when dealing with these bad boys. Even the thought is scary. You really have to count on your lucky stars to put your money here. And if those stars happen to be on the lesser side then the money you spend on repairs here could easily add up almost to the money needed for a new C-segment car! Just my two cents.
I have been through various threads in TDI Club forums and VW Vortex forums before taking a call and the general notion is all VAG cars are built to the highest standards and the key is preventive and timely maintenance,it should last a good half of your lifetime.On the other hand VW ASS is notorious for its high costs even in the developed countries.I guess if parts can be sourced from abroad and a good local mechanic specializing in VAG cars can save some hard yearned money.

Last edited by Sam.k : 23rd December 2015 at 12:19.
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Old 23rd December 2015, 17:21   #153
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Default Re: The Diminishing Value of D1 Segment Sedans (Altis, Cruze, Civic, Laura et al)

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Originally Posted by Sam.k View Post
Arvind,The purchase decision was more from the heart.But i did go through the entire service history and only after being convinced that it had been through all services and nil accident history.But as you said,any used car can throw up surprises anytime and gotta live with it.I guess my risk appetite is bit high and i don't think i can afford a new D-segment car any time soon.To each his own
Yup the pleasure of driving a D segment car especially the VWs would be great. I have never driven a D segment car from VW but drove an older gen Octavia and it was very very nice. All the best
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Old 23rd December 2015, 17:27   #154
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Default Re: The Diminishing Value of D1 Segment Sedans (Altis, Cruze, Civic, Laura et al)

Was upgrading from a C2 segment car. Truth be told, the D1 segment has way too few choices in terms of sedans these days. The ones that do exist such as Jetta/Octavia/Cruze/Corolla have their own issues - either questions regarding mechanical reliability or bad after sales service or they are priced too close to the luxury segment or they are stripped down.

In the end, I skipped the segment altogether and ended up buying something from the entry premium. I'm sure that I'm not alone in this sort of a decision. If there is not much choice, folks would not bother looking.
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Old 23rd December 2015, 18:08   #155
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Choice is the issue.

Corolla has a puny Diesel engine, the Octy and Jetta are good, but a tad expensive and come with their set of unreliability factors and service costs. The Elantra is a decent all rounder but not exciting enough and somehow seems like a overgrown Verna rather than a proper D segment car. The Cruze has a great engine but the interior quality isn't that great when you compare to the VW/Skoda twins. I'm hoping Ford and Honda Come to the game with the Focus and the Civic, which can increase the options for buyers. Also Renault should bring in something new compared to the fluence with a much more powerful engine.
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Old 23rd December 2015, 18:21   #156
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Default Re: The Diminishing Value of D1 Segment Sedans (Altis, Cruze, Civic, Laura et al)

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Originally Posted by reignofchaos View Post
Was upgrading from a C2 segment car. Truth be told, the D1 segment has way too few choices in terms of sedans these days. The ones that do exist such as Jetta/Octavia/Cruze/Corolla have their own issues - either questions regarding mechanical reliability or bad after sales service or they are priced too close to the luxury segment or they are stripped down.

In the end, I skipped the segment altogether and ended up buying something from the entry premium. I'm sure that I'm not alone in this sort of a decision. If there is not much choice, folks would not bother looking.
True, D1 cars are way overpriced currently while contrary to popular opinion, the entry premiums aren't so much.
If you look at it objectively,

a) Almost all the entry premiums in India offer a well loaded base version - Typically equipped with a lot more options than the base variants at offer in Europe (e.g AT/electric seats ) which would be add-on options in Europe

b) After you factor in the (usually prevalent) discounts, at least the entry premiums end up costing approx the same as in EUR/GBP land .. unlike most D1 segment cars which are often significantly overpriced

I was in the same boat in 2012 and after exploring the Corolla/Jetta and a few others, ended up choosing to pay a little more to get something which I think offered far better specs/engine/driving dynamics

PS: Incidentally you know me as superczar
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Old 23rd December 2015, 20:22   #157
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Default Re: The Diminishing Value of D1 Segment Sedans (Altis, Cruze, Civic, Laura et al)

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Originally Posted by abhi182 View Post
True, D1 cars are way overpriced currently while contrary to popular opinion, the entry premiums aren't so much.
If you look at it objectively,

a) Almost all the entry premiums in India offer a well loaded base version - Typically equipped with a lot more options than the base variants at offer in Europe (e.g AT/electric seats ) which would be add-on options in Europe

b) After you factor in the (usually prevalent) discounts, at least the entry premiums end up costing approx the same as in EUR/GBP land .. unlike most D1 segment cars which are often significantly overpriced

I was in the same boat in 2012 and after exploring the Corolla/Jetta and a few others, ended up choosing to pay a little more to get something which I think offered far better specs/engine/driving dynamics

PS: Incidentally you know me as superczar
Wow been a real long time since we met. Am glad that you just proved my theory right with another example. There is a market for d segment sedans but no one is offering anything value for money forcing most folks to look higher up.
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Old 23rd December 2020, 23:02   #158
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Default Re: The Diminishing Value of D1 Segment Sedans (Altis, Cruze, Civic, Laura et al)

I come to this thread exactly after 5 years and just 2020 alone saw the demise of 3 D1 segment sedans, the Corolla Altis, Honda Civic and the Skoda Octavia.

We now have only the Elantra to buy and not a single other option.

The Octavia is expected back in 2021 but doesn't look like others will.

The SUV's have literally taken over with the likes of Kia, Hyundai, Tata, MG and to some extent Jeep.

Last edited by Vid6639 : 24th December 2020 at 01:03.
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Old 24th December 2020, 00:53   #159
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Diminishing value ? In terms of money, then yes.
But if in terms of having fun (which is what we are about, aren't we?), none of the CSuVs will hold a candle to any sedan.
Even to the older NA sedans.

Well, forget CSuVs, even the SUVs will dither.

Sometime in end-2016, Modi announced his demo.
It's an empty Trichy-Chennai road - I am cruising in the fast lane at 120kmph.
No traffic - no one in any lanes around me.

A km away (behind me) I see flashing headlights in my IRVM. In the daytime.
I am like, "Ok, the 3-lane road is empty. He can just pass. Why is he flashing me?"

And then he passes me. I see a Fortuner (old model).
A 3-litre engine, which is double my engine size. Big fish, tough to take.

But then I think, "What is there to lose ? If he wins, he was the bigger car. If he looses.."
I gun the car, come level with him. And overtake him.

He obviously wasn't expecting it. And guns the engine.
On the straights, he is faster. But then there are curves, where he has to slow down - I don't. That is the advantage of sedans.

The reason why I stick with sedans. Be quick, be fast.

Last edited by Aditya : 24th December 2020 at 04:23. Reason: Back to back posts
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Old 24th December 2020, 11:39   #160
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Default Re: The Diminishing Value of D1 Segment Sedans (Altis, Cruze, Civic, Laura et al)

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Originally Posted by supremeBaleno View Post
Diminishing value ? In terms of money, then yes.
But if in terms of having fun (which is what we are about, aren't we?), none of the CSuVs will hold a candle to any sedan.
Even to the older NA sedans.

Well, forget CSuVs, even the SUVs will dither.

The reason why I stick with sedans. Be quick, be fast.
The point I was trying to make is that while 0.01% may still feel that sedans are the holy grail, this thread 5 years back vs now paints a different picture.

5 years back the discussion was diminishing value of D1 sedans. Now in 2020 the segment has already diminished to just 1 car.

Also, the comparison with a ladder frame SUV like the Fortuner is nowhere near as accurate vs the new gen crossover's like the Compass, Seltos, Karoq and smaller ones like Ecosport. While the SUV will slow down at corners, whenever there is a section of bad or missing roads which are more often on our highways, the SUV disappears leaving the sedan tip toeing over the broken sections of road. LAst month when driving back from Mumbai to Bangalore, I was driving besides a Mercedes C class and he would pull away everytime there was an open stretch of highway but at every diversion which had speed breakers and patches of road missing, he would be struggling by whereas I would breeze past in my soft roader SUV with ample clearance.

My Ecosport can run circles around my Corolla when it comes to handling and dynamics even though it's a CSUV. Not all sedans handle well likewise with SUV's. Once you drive a Jeep compass, there are very few sedans that can handle better. The Civic, Octavia are the only ones. The Elantra and Corolla are hardly known for their corner carving abilities.

In the end, this segment was squeezed by both sides. C2 sedans going up and CSUV's getting so much better. On top of that the D2 sedans were a much better upgrade for C2 segment owner vs going from C2 to D1.

Last edited by Vid6639 : 24th December 2020 at 12:14.
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Old 24th December 2020, 11:52   #161
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Default Re: The Diminishing Value of D1 Segment Sedans (Altis, Cruze, Civic, Laura et al)

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Originally Posted by supremeBaleno View Post
On the straights, he is faster. But then there are curves, where he has to slow down - I don't. That is the advantage of sedans.

The reason why I stick with sedans. Be quick, be fast.
The need for handling is an acquired taste. Those who have tasted it want it. Those who haven't, won't bother.

Truth is, when the speed limits are strictly enforced, I don't see any real reason to stick to a sedan! The advantages of handling between modern day crossovers and sedans is only noticeable beyond 120kmph. Yes, body roll will be there and I hate to admit it but manufacturers are focusing only on crossovers these days and sedan options are almost extinct apart from the Octavia and Rapid twins which is a big no for many prospective buyers thanks to their after sales and service.

Yes, I'm a sedan lover and I will keep mine for as long as possible.
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