[Mpower]

Originally Posted by greatmana2000

I still doubt the ability of honda to produce diesel engines . I wouldnt touch a honda diesel for sure .. They do not have the experience of manufacturing diesels and it would be suicide to buy a honda with a diesel within the first few years ..

Actually they very much do
They have a 2.2 diesel in the European Honda Accord for the past 5-6 years and when it came out it was lauded as one of the best in that segment. Now they have a a 1.6 in the Euro Civic as well since 2-3 years. This would be their third

[suhaas307]

Originally Posted by greatmana2000

I still doubt the ability of honda to produce diesel engines . I wouldnt touch a honda diesel for sure .. They do not have the experience of manufacturing diesels and it would be suicide to buy a honda with a diesel within the first few years ..

Why not? I will trust Honda when it comes to engines. I'm sure this diesel power-plant has been in development for some time now. It's the ride-quality that they desperately need to sort out. It's stiff and generally stiff cars trade ride quality for good handling. But they aren't corner carvers either.

I doubt they would address these issues in the Amaze.

[greatmana2000]

Originally Posted by Mpower

Actually they very much do
They have a 2.2 diesel in the European Honda Accord for the past 5-6 years and when it came out it was lauded as one of the best in that segment. Now they have a a 1.6 in the Euro Civic as well since 2-3 years. This would be their third

I do not think those diesel engines were designed by them .. probably outsourced to some other company just like what mahindra does . I also have noticed that Honda diesel is not so famous in europe compared to the other brands which sell there .. like the toyota , isuzu etc

Originally Posted by suhaas307

Why not? I will trust Honda when it comes to engines. I'm sure this diesel power-plant has been in development for some time now. It's the ride-quality that they desperately need to sort out. It's stiff and generally stiff cars trade ride quality for good handling. But they aren't corner carvers either.

I doubt they would address these issues in the Amaze.

Engineering a power train is different from building a diesel engine ... It is like doubting the ability of GM , Ford , Hyundai and all other manufacturers who have diesel engines from FIAT , Peugeot etc ... If honda had the ability to develop a diesel engine then they would have had a basic diesel generator atleast . Why would they still be waiting ?
Gasoline engines are different from diesels and it is not a joke to build a diesel engine . When it comes to diesel technology .. the europeans are way ahead and the japs do not stand anywhere near them .

[Mpower]

Originally Posted by greatmana2000

I do not think those diesel engines were designed by them .. probably outsourced to some other company just like what mahindra does . I also have noticed that Honda diesel is not so famous in europe compared to the other brands which sell there .. like the toyota , isuzu etc

Why do we care if they outsourced or not? As long as we are getting a world class diesel engine?? Suzuki Swift Diesel is outsourced but one hell of a product success.

But in reality, they were not outsourced. In the 90s Isuzu supplied Honda with diesels but the Euro Accord was their first in house effort.

[greatmana2000]

Originally Posted by Mpower

Why do we care if they outsourced or not? As long as we are getting a world class diesel engine?? Suzuki Swift Diesel is outsourced but one hell of a product success.

But in reality, they were not outsourced. In the 90s Isuzu supplied Honda with diesels but the Euro Accord was their first in house effort.

I do agree , nor does anyone care if they are outsourced or not . Getting an engine is different , engineering a power train is different . I did not know that the Honda diesels were considered class leading . Thank you for the info .
Suzuki swift diesel is partially a success in India due to the diesel demand . Another thing which suzuki did was to shoe horn an extremely reliable , frugal engine by just fitting in a FIAT engine under the hood .
Isuzu engines have a reputation of being frugal , and long lasting . take the case of ambassador ,contessa , tavera etc .. Probably I would trust an Isuzu diesel engine under a honda hood than a honda diesel under a honda hood .

The feitish for using aluminium on petrol engines is fine .. but I am not really sure if Honda is competent enough to use Aluminium block in a diesel engine apart from peugeot which I would rate as one of the best manufacturers of diesel engines apart from the German trio

[sgiitk]

I may have reported this earlier. The Honda Diesel is a an alloy engine, developed by their ex-F1 boffins.

[hrman]

Wow!! What a scoop. This is "AMAZE" ing to say the least.
Even when I grudgingly sold off my City ZX earlier this year, I did tell the Honda people that if they had a diesel model in their stable, I would have picked it up with my eyes closed. And if they ever come up with a Diesel, I can be counted the first amongst the line. If their petrol is anything to go by, their diesel surely will be a game changer for Honda and maybe the Compact sedan market.
Honda just needs to get the pricing right and place it at par or slightly, very slightly below Dzire. See it flying off the shelves. After all its a Honda..
And an MUV on the lines of the Ertiga will be the icing on the cake!!

[greatmana2000]

Originally Posted by sgiitk

I may have reported this earlier. The Honda Diesel is a an alloy engine, developed by their ex-F1 boffins.

The stuff about F1 team developing a diesel engine is just marketing crap, design goals for a F1 engine are totally different and probably diametrically opposite.

Originally Posted by hrman

Honda just needs to get the pricing right and place it at par or slightly, very slightly below Dzire. See it flying off the shelves. After all its a Honda..
And an MUV on the lines of the Ertiga will be the icing on the cake!!

Just because it is a Honda i do not see flying off the shelves, probably there would be an initial batch of eager customers.

[rock75]

Maruti has a lot to worry about in 2013, With competent petrol and diesel engines and a bigger boot than Dzire, plus a HONDA badge, Dzire's waiting list will surely diminish!

Now only if they price it sensibly, which seeing Brio pricing, is certain. With upcoming Sail sedan/notchback and verito CS Maruti, which had the field open to it in budget sedan category, will face serious pressure. I think Tata is going to introduce Manza CS with 75 bhp quadrajet engine in 2013 too!

There is going to be a lot of churning in the sales mix in the indian car market, obviously it is not growing so fast to accomodate all the new upcoming models (hatch as well as sedan,MUVs) so obviously some models will lose sales.The customer is going to be the king with more choices available!

[Imran.Syed]

decision to buy a S(O) AT brio for undergrad college is officially on hold now.
If they are going to launch a brio sedan with a diesel mill, then there are 101% chances they will plonk the same mill in the hatch too.
And for the petrolhead in me, the baleno will be more than sufficient to stay future proof for 3 years at the least.

Comparing the brio sedan with swift dzire, I would prefer the former any day! Had a good look at the new dzire today, and there was only one word in my mind all the time, YUCK!
no offence to anyone, i just hate it. (ironical, innit?)
its too early to decide, but the amaze looks better from now itself. However, I doubt the boot size, the amaze's rear looks quite small compared to dzires'.

[hrman]

Originally Posted by greatmana2000

I do not think those diesel engines were designed by them .. probably outsourced to some other company just like what mahindra does .

Originally Posted by greatmana2000

Engineering a power train is different from building a diesel engine ... It is like doubting the ability of GM , Ford , Hyundai and all other manufacturers who have diesel engines from FIAT , Peugeot etc

Originally Posted by greatmana2000

I do agree , nor does anyone care if they are outsourced or not . Getting an engine is different , engineering a power train is different . I did not know that the Honda diesels were considered class leading . Thank you for the info .

Originally Posted by greatmana2000

the stuff about F1 team developing a diesel engine is just marketing crap ... design goals for a F1 engine are totally different and probably diametrically opposite ..

Originally Posted by greatmana2000

Just because it is a Honda i do not see flying off the shelves .. Probably there would be an initial batch of eager customers ...

@Greatmana2000. Yours are the only opinions on this thread which are totally skeptical and negative on Honda's Diesel strategy. If you have been observing the Indian automobile market and the skew towards diesel due to the pricing, you would have noticed that anything in diesel gets lapped up.
The Honda diesel mill is definitely the most awaited and discussed engine in India. This is evident from most Automotive threads on the web, and more so on TBHP.


Just like you think it will not fly off the shelves, or it is pure marketing c**p, or that one of the largest and reputed Automotive giants in the world is incapable of making a frugal and well running diesel engine, the other 99% are pleased that Honda is finally coming with a diesel sedan and sure of its success, provided it is priced right. And that it is expected to be a success is evident because it is surely the most awaited car or range of cars of 2012-2013.

This is an open forum and you are entitled to have your own views on why Honda will produce a dud, or the engine will fail miserably, but it is not right on your part to cut off everyone who says something positive about the Honda diesel on this thread!!

[sgiitk]

Originally Posted by greatmana2000

the stuff about F1 team developing a diesel engine is just marketing crap ... design goals for a F1 engine are totally different and probably diametrically opposite ..

Yes and no. These chaps are really high tech. They were idle after Honda pulled out of F1. So they were given the task of developing the small capacity diesel family.

Now with turbo likely to be back in a couple of years they will probably revert to the older role. Honda were king in the Turbo days, and I expect them to be back.

[swiftnfurious]

Originally Posted by sgiitk

...Now with turbo likely to be back in a couple of years they will probably revert to the older role. Honda were king in the Turbo days, and I expect them to be back.

OT, what's the Turbo you are talking about? Something to do with Honda F1 team?

[blackasta]

Originally Posted by swiftnfurious

OT, what's the Turbo you are talking about? Something to do with Honda F1 team?

Yep - pretty soon (from 2014) the F1 engines are gonna be brought down from the 2.4 L V8 to 1.6L V6 and shall be restricted at 15000 RPM, and the turbochargers, which were outlawed after 1988 shall be allowed again !

[libranof1987]

Here's a different angle posted by Zigwheels :

http://www.zigwheels.com/news-featur...d-amaze/14723/

No info on how they got to this rendering.

Certainly a launch to watch out for!