[romeomidhun]

Originally Posted by suhaas307

- It does not have a diesel engine : is one huge disadvantage.

Ok, I agree. But do you think Jazz can succeed in India by just plonking a Diesel engine? It may sell an additional 2K, but not more than that, IMO. A Diesel Jazz will cost you 8+L on-road for its base variant. That won't attract too many customers, IMO. It will surely go the SX4 way, where it lost the plot against its own stable mate DZire, and other much better competitors. A Jazz Diesel can't survive the onslaught of a Diesel Brio sedan, and other snazzy, spacious and cheaper competitors in the market, IMO.

[sgiitk]

I hear Jazz sales have picked up since they cut the pricing. A brilliant car (same pan as the City but much better put together). It lost out since we prefer Sedans (snobbish) and the car was perceived to be too pricey for a Hatch!

[suhaas307]

Originally Posted by sourabhzen

That is exactly why it doesn't sell! I mean, how many buyers can we find with above set of requirement.

You will be surprised by the number of petrol i20s being sold today vis a vis its diesel counterpart. Sure, it isn't as spacious as the Jazz, but there are people willing to forgo space for equipment and features. And the i20 does just that. Plus, it's cheaper to buy.

Originally Posted by sgiitk

@suhaas; Yes Honda suspension tend to be stiff, so you get better handling at the cost of a stiffer ride. It is true of my Civic (vis a vis Accent) and I found the same in a TD of a Brio (expect mine tomorrow). Unless you go hydropneumatique this is cross you have to bear.

Agreed.

But even with the stiffer suspension, its handling isn't path-breaking unless you spend some money on upgrading the suspension. Sure, it will handle most roads well, but I found the stiffish suspension not damping the undulations on the road well enough. Plus, it isn't exactly planted at higher speeds. The suspension feels a bit squishy over uneven surfaces. There is some vertical movement as you drive over them, but it's negligible.

German cars on the other hand have this uncanny ability to mask speeds very well and are quite planted and not too uncomfortable either.

I've driven the Brio but not fast enough to comment. But from what I've read in reviews, it needs better rubber. The shorter wheelbase and the small overhangs give it a very chuck-able feel and is reasonably sorted for a hatch of its size. Highway manners are decent, but not German like, or Ford like.

The Brio sedan should be just as good, I guess.

Originally Posted by romeomidhun

Ok, I agree. But do you think Jazz can succeed in India by just plonking a Diesel engine? It may sell an additional 2K, but not more than that, IMO. A Diesel Jazz will cost you 8+L on-road for its base variant. That won't attract too many customers, IMO. It will surely go the SX4 way, where it lost the plot against its own stable mate DZire, and other much better competitors. A Jazz Diesel can't survive the onslaught of a Diesel Brio sedan, and other snazzy, spacious and cheaper competitors in the market, IMO.

It may succeed. It may not. We'll never know. I'm going to refrain from speculating based on comparisons w/r/t the success of the SX4 as I think they are different products. Remember, the SX4 even with its diesel engine could not sell as consistently as the City does even now. Honda once ruled the roost when petrol-engines are the norm. Even the massive CRV powered by a super thirsty petrol engine saw reasonable success despite the presence of a diesel-engined SUV that ticks all the boxes (Hyundai Tucson). But with fuel prices sky-rocketing to kingdom-come, it gave companies like Hyundai a chance to compete.

It's also worth noting that the Swift had appeal from day one and because of its pricing, it cannibalized other cars from the same stable, let alone the competition.

[shadows123]

Originally Posted by suhaas307

You will be surprised by the number of petrol i20s being sold today vis a vis its diesel counterpart. Sure, it isn't as spacious as the Jazz, but there are people willing to forgo space for equipment and features. And the i20 does just that. Plus, it's cheaper to buy.

I would have to disagree with your view here. Sure the i20 sells more but thats primarily because the i20 falls under 2 categories. The Era and Magnum are priced similar to Swift Vx(orVD) series(roughly same OTR) or slightly higher than the Brio!! whereas the only version of the i20 which is comparable to Jazz in features and cost would have to be the Sportz or the Asta!!both of which are in the same league or Jazz is slightly costlier than i20!!

And,bulk of the i20 sales in India comes from Magna&Era i believe so i think saying i20 petrol sells is not really a fair anology considering a> Honda doesnt want to push Jazz because of low margins plus the Brio factor b>With the premium features on offer and price, even i20 Asta would have similar sale if not lesser!! c> Honda really hasnt been a mass sales company. Its always historically been happy with their own niche in India(viz a viz the City) and havent really tried hard, only Brio has changed that nothing else has!!

And why doesnt Honda want to downgrade Jazz, its because it is sold in the same form as whats sold abroad plus it has Brio and it doesnt want a price overlap to hit its sale of the Brio!!

[Turbokick]

Jazz's advantage is nullified by Ertiga IMO. Ertiga too offers cabin space, similar size, competent engine and decent quality. Extra seats and diesel engine gives it the advantage.

Brio sedan will be the true rival for the dzire with similar attributes. If Honda can pull numbers from dzire, they have a winner in hand

[suhaas307]

Originally Posted by shadows123

And,bulk of the i20 sales in India comes from Magna&Era i believe so i think saying i20 petrol sells is not really a fair anology considering a> Honda doesnt want to push Jazz because of low margins plus the Brio factor b>With the premium features on offer and price, even i20 Asta would have similar sale if not lesser!! c> Honda really hasnt been a mass sales company. Its always historically been happy with their own niche in India(viz a viz the City) and havent really tried hard, only Brio has changed that nothing else has!!

And why doesnt Honda want to downgrade Jazz, its because it is sold in the same form as whats sold abroad plus it has Brio and it doesnt want a price overlap to hit its sale of the Brio!!

Firstly, I think you've missed my point.

I was talking about the sales of the petrol i20 with relation to the sales of its diesel counterpart. Yes, having a slew of variants helps and the automatic tranny does too.

Let's not forget that the Jazz's prices were slashed not too long ago and they were slashed big-time, undercutting the similarly spec'ed i20. Honda has introduced variants of the Jazz as well, but what killed it ultimately was the initial pricing. Sales have picked up but it's quite erratic, still.

For now, let's stick to the topic at hand.

[romeomidhun]

From the scoop images, it looks like a shortened NHC for me.

[deetjohn]

The crease from the taillight is spoiling the side profile. There are 2 different lines on the rear door.

Hope Honda can do something about it.

[nilambuj]

Why does the rear view look like a Dzire to me. Are others of the same opinion? Does the rear resemble the swift dzire?

[CrAzY dRiVeR]

Originally Posted by romeomidhun

From the scoop images, it looks like a shortened NHC for me.

Looks too similar to the new DZire IMO. The integrated spoiler effect, the chrome strip running across, positioning of number plate, and tall lamps all seem to remind me of the new DZire.

All said and done, I'm eyeing Brio AT purchase for father. I don't see a reason why I shouldn't opt for the sedan, considering the Brio has the worst rear end treatment of all cars IMHO.

[nettooran]

The news for the same was highlighted in sify.com today. Here is the link to the same.

http://www.sify.com/finance/Honda-Br...t=c1s3#galname

[akhil_rpmlover]

Originally Posted by suhaas307

What killed the Jazz was the way it was initially priced. NOT because it seemed unconventional. I think it had decent appeal. I don't think it's average looking. In fact, it's one of the better looking hatchbacks out there. The biggest drawback with it was the price when it was first launched. And the lack of a diesel engine was the final nail.
Success of a product has little to do with looks.
If looks were a priority, the Punto should have been a runaway success. And the Dzire would have been a flop.

+1 to you bro. Infact Swift was considered highly unconventional design, right from beginning. But, what made it a huge success is the VFM proposition. Of course Jazz is also unconventional in looks, with its funky appearance , but as you said, it became a flop only because of the initial huge price tag. That made it away from the minds of many people.

Originally Posted by romeomidhun

I know one of my friend, who opted for i20 over Jazz because his wife thought that, for her, Jazz's front and rear designs were "pathetic".

for me, is a lizard and old DZire is a frog, while new DZire is a looker for me.

I dont know why you dont like neither the Jazz's design nor the Italian beauty. Jazz might not be a looker for many, basically because its design is very different from the rest. For instance, My Mom too dont like it much simply because its front region,i.e. Bonnet region is very short and the back doesnt gel with the overall size of car. Maybe that's the problem with many. But, Punto is a looker. But, you are liking new Dzire over Punto and Jazz. Strange. You're a sedan lover it seems.

P.S. My Dad too calls the old Dzire, new dzire and the Swift as frog.

Originally Posted by romeomidhun

Ok, I agree. But do you think Jazz can succeed in India by just plonking a Diesel engine? It may sell an additional 2K, but not more than that, IMO.
A Jazz Diesel can't survive the onslaught of a Diesel Brio sedan, and other snazzy, spacious and cheaper competitors in the market, IMO.

As per my SA , Honda India does not want Jazz to be a success. They just want Jazz to be sold in a decent number of 500-1K every month.

Jazz diesel cannot survive simply because of the the market's views. Indians prefer sedan over premium hatches. Thats the basic reason. If Jazz diesel and Brio sedan Diesel comes at same price, many prefer Brio sedan because of the same reason. But, still, Jazz will have its own advantages over the Brio sedan.

Originally Posted by CrAzY dRiVeR

All said and done, I'm eyeing Brio AT purchase for father. I don't see a reason why I shouldn't opt for the sedan, considering the Brio has the worst rear end treatment of all cars IMHO.

But, one advantage that Brio has is, easiness to park and drive through traffic. That said, Brio sedan too will be smaller as it will be under 4m as well.

Originally Posted by romeomidhun

From the scoop images, it looks like a shortened NHC for me.

I feel it to be like the 2nd gen city. 2003 version.

[naut]

Stumbled upon this article on the internet courtesy Daily Bhaskar. Hope this is a trustworthy source.

All you need to know about the new Honda Brio Sedan

Some claims from the above article quoted here for a quick look.

• 3,990mm overall length
• 2,407mm wheelbase
• 1,680mm width
• 1,485mm height
• Boot space of 420 litres! and
• Heavier than the Hatch variant by just 26 kgs!
• 90HP 1.2-litre 4-cylinder petrol engine with CVT automatic transmission
• 20.4 kmpl mileage. (I doubt even if the Hatch gives this kinda mileage.)

Are the above believable?

Regards,
Abhi

Originally Posted by abhi.kedlaya

Stumbled upon this article on the internet courtesy Daily Bhaskar. Hope this is a trustworthy source.

All you need to know about the new Honda Brio Sedan

Some claims from the above article quoted here for a quick look.

• 3,990mm overall length
• 2,407mm wheelbase
• 1,680mm width
• 1,485mm height
• Boot space of 420 litres! and
• Heavier than the Hatch variant by just 26 kgs!
• 90HP 1.2-litre 4-cylinder petrol engine with CVT automatic transmission
• 20.4 kmpl mileage. (I doubt even if the Hatch gives this kinda mileage.)

Are the above believable?

Regards,
Abhi

Even i am surprised to see these details. is it possible? I know Honda has the required stuff and some damn good engineers but. Still... cant believable.

[rjalihal]

With a correct price tag, it could prove to be a serious threat to the DZire. Guess they will launch it in a petrol only variant.

Cheers!
Rohan