[romeomidhun]

Originally Posted by zenren

If Honda converts this savings into the 'premium for the Honda brand', rather than passing it on to customers, then thats the recipe for another dud.

Most Indians never go for a cheap car or an overpriced car; they prefer a VFM car. No matter what the cost is, if the car gives enough value for that cost, there would be takers. Very few manufacturers seem to have understood the actual meaning of VFM.

Jazz didn't sell the volume it deserved just because it didn't offer anything to justify the additional 2 lakhs (based on original pricing) that a customer would have to spend over and above the cost of a Swift. Honda build quality and reliability can be argued as a factor to justify that cost, but most Indians have experienced the reliability of Maruti vehicles and they know that the maximum Honda can do would be to match it. The customers went for the better choice- its as simple as that.

Completely agree. If Honda charges a huge premium for this sedan over the competitors, it will surely go the Jazz way. Products like DZire are very competent. But I'm sure Honda won't play that foolish Jazz game again, which they lost to Swift and i20.

[hrman]

Originally Posted by zenren

Bigger boot means more prestige and aam aadmi would prefer that if both are available at the same price

If Honda converts this savings into the 'premium for the Honda brand', rather than passing it on to customers, then that's the recipe for another dud.

I Agree here. The pricing needs to be right. I'm sure even if its priced slightly above Maruti, it will sell. Any overtly high positioning like the jazz will be a dud. Honda must have learnt about the mistakes in pricing from their Jazz experience.

[sgiitk]

I think Honda have learnt the virtues of realistic pricing, unless they forget we should be Ok.

[Mpower]

Here is some info in the 1.6 version to be used in Civics. The Amaze version looks like it will be reduced to 1.5 for the Indian Market.

http://www.autocar.co.uk/car-review/...c-16-i-dtec-se

Originally Posted by greatmana2000

Not everyone can make an engine .. period . There are so many patents .. licensing etc .. when it comes to diesel tech ..unfortunately most of the cutting edge tech seems to be with the Europeans and not with the Japanese .

Thats a very generic statement. Granted Europeans have a bit of a head start but that doesn't mean Japanese cannot catch up. Heck if TATA & Mahindra can learn how to make Arias and XUVs, why can't Honda??

Did you not read the note Vid posted about the 2.2. It launched in 2002 which means they started working on it in probably 1999.

[hrman]

Originally Posted by Mpower

Here is some info in the 1.6 version to be used in Civics. The Amaze version looks like it will be reduced to 1.5 for the Indian Market.

http://www.autocar.co.uk/car-review/...c-16-i-dtec-se


Thats a very generic statement. Granted Europeans have a bit of a head start but that doesn't mean Japanese cannot catch up. Heck if TATA & Mahindra can learn how to make Arias and XUVs, why can't Honda??

Did you not read the note Vid posted about the 2.2. It launched in 2002 which means they started working on it in probably 1999.

Even at 1.6L, the 200 km top speed, 0-100 in 10 secs seems impressive. Mileage somehow does not add up:- 83mpg equals 35.08 km/lit??

I'm sure they will plonk the 1.5 in India to avail of the tax benefits.

[Mpower]

Originally Posted by hrman

Even at 1.6L, the 200 km top speed, 0-100 in 10 secs seems impressive. Mileage somehow does not add up:- 83mpg equals 35.08 km/lit??

I'm sure they will plonk the 1.5 in India to avail of the tax benefits.

Its mpg-uk (imperial) so its only 29.4 kmpl. This is in the heavier Civic!

Of course, it depends on test cycle, but the lighter Amaze should be able to do 25 easy.

[dass]

If they get the pricing just about right, follow it up with a timely launch then I believe they have a winner on their cards. However, having seen Honda for all these years and their reluctance to step ahead of the competition, i will take any news about a diesel honda with a pinch of salt.

[troublemaker]

IMHO, without real-world usage review, we cannot decide whether this will be successful or not. Some facts:
1. Honda is one of the best Petrol Motor manufactures
2. Honda's history with Diesel Motor is not great
3. Hondas are known to rattle (my Civic rattled like there is no tomorrow)

This can very well go either ways but we must wait for the product details and some reviews..

[akhil_rpmlover]

Originally Posted by troublemaker

IMHO, without real-world usage review, we cannot decide whether this will be successful or not. Some facts:
1. Honda is one of the best Petrol Motor manufactures
2. Honda's history with Diesel Motor is not great
3. Hondas are known to rattle (my Civic rattled like there is no tomorrow)

Honda is known for Petrol motors but that doesn't mean their diesel motors will be bad. Consider the 1.6L Earthdreams that they developed.So, we cant just draw into such a conclusion.

Rattling? Well, AFAIK Honda's are better in terms of NVH and dont rattle at-least for few initial years. We are pitting this against Dzire. Dzire rattles well, at-least more than a Honda IMO. So, rattling aint an issue as well. Further, in the mindset of Indians, Honda has a better quality image over Maruti.

So, what it finally depends is on the price factor.

[sarathlal]

Originally Posted by troublemaker

3. Hondas are known to rattle (my Civic rattled like there is no tomorrow)

Really? I have not come across such rattling issues with a Civic or even in that matter for a City.
Or was it due to some mods being done, which would include a re installation of padding's?
On the other hand, if its general issue, then thats the least we could expect from a brand like Honda, but seems very unlikely.

[sarthakgupta]

Honda Amaze 1.5 i-DTEC First Drive Report:

A short test drive of Amaze 1.5 i-DTEC conducted by Honda for journalists in Malaysia. Below are their insights:

Some Specs:
Power : Not revealed yet
Torque : 200 NM
Kerb Weight : 1050 Kg
Overall verdict: Well sorted out compact sedan

Destined to debut in India next year (with the petrol unit), the new mill is Euro 4-compliant, and though the Honda engineers were tight-lipped when asked about the power output (or any other figures, for that matter), one of them let slip the maximum torque available from the mill – it’s 200 Nm.

Also dropped was the weight of the Amaze in its diesel configuration, and that’s 1,050 kg. Aside from that, no other numbers to report. No photos either from the quiet aside, which was done just off the main area of proceedings, but hidden from view.

The benchmark competitor for the Amaze is the bulky-looking Suzuki Swift Dzire sedan, and the Honda looks a fair bit tidier in this regard, at least in the metal. The C-pillar area is Saga-esque in its shape, and the rear looks compacted in direct view, but offers competent cargo space when revealed.

Likewise, the interior, which offers good in-cabin height perception and decent acreage for rear passengers despite the car’s compactness. Materials are par for the course in the segment, with good finish, and the light-tan coloured interior (like in the cabin photo here, taken from the Brio Amaze Club Thailand FB page), spartan though it may be, helps with making things airier.

The drive itself was brief, two rounds on a rather short loop, so we could only gun the car – which was equipped with a five-speed manual transmission – for a very short stretch. The diesel has good poke, but isn’t just a veritable mule.

Floor it and dump the clutch, and the car torque steers its way off the blocks, but it’s pretty smooth going up the rev range, and the ratios on 1st through 3rd (no chance to go much higher) suggest a clean and efficient partner in the gearbox. Ride is compliant, if a bit on the soft side.

You won’t mistake it for not being a diesel from inside the cabin; there’s a fair bit of clatter evident to remind you, but on the whole the Amaze diesel seems well sorted out.

Link to full report: http://paultan.org/2012/11/14/honda-...c-turbodiesel/

[rambo1o1]

Originally Posted by sarathlal

Really? I have not come across such rattling issues with a Civic or even in that matter for a City.
Or was it due to some mods being done, which would include a re installation of padding's?
On the other hand, if its general issue, then that's the least we could expect from a brand like Honda, but seems very unlikely.

OT :
I dont know about the civic but my 3 month old city has a annoying rattle coming near the sunroof area, the service people removed a part of the sunroof and reinstalled but it has had no effect. Also there is a slight rattle in the driver's side door, is audible only on rough roads.

I too have a figo but compared to most owners i never had those squeaks and loud rattles in my 15k km ownership only a slight rattle near the music system area since it is a single DIN after market player

Coming back to the topic it seems the amaze will be a runaway success with its light body and excellent torque coupled with excellent mileage and honda badge.
But what will happen to the city will be another question.

[swiftnfurious]

Originally Posted by rambo1o1

... But what will happen to the city will be another question.

Next gen city also will come with a competent diesel engine. So image & space conscious buyers will stick to it I guess.

[akhil_rpmlover]

Originally Posted by rambo1o1

But what will happen to the city will be another question.

City will remain as a mid-size sedan , whereas Amaze will be simply a entry level sedan. Just like Maruti have SX4 above Dzire. Those who want a proper sedan under 10-11L will look for City and Amaze will be bought by those upgrading from hatches and wants a car with a boot rather than a premium hatch.

[rambo1o1]

Originally Posted by akhil_rpmlover

City will remain as a mid-size sedan , whereas Amaze will be simply a entry level sedan. Just like Maruti have SX4 above Dzire. Those who want a proper sedan under 10-11L will look for City and Amaze will be bought by those upgrading from hatches and wants a car with a boot rather than a premium hatch.

Well what i meant was since the new city will arrive here only by 2014(??) the city's sales will fall drastically because of the diesel amaze. There is not much talk about the next gen city so i guess it will come much later, But if honda manages to launch a diesel city at the same time then it will be good.