[GTO]

Originally Posted by Mister_M

With this consideration, I even see that the 7.5 rupee petrol price hike has NOT really affected Jazz sales. Indian Car buyers seem to have started understanding the value of this "Best in its class" car!

I seriously hope you are joking. If this is what Jazz sales really are, yes, the petrol price hike hasn't affects its sales. But I don't think you can draw the conclusion that buyers are now understanding its value.

Rather, the Jazz was a flop before the petrol price hike, and remains a flop after the price hike. Two of it's direct competitors sell 10 - 20 times more. Clearly, only a minority of Indian car buyers see any value in the Jazz, and prefer its competitors instead.

BTW, I am a fan of the Honda Jazz and do think that it's one of the most sensible hatchbacks in our country. But your post is very misleading and I'd advise you to stay away from such posts.

[Zappo]

Originally Posted by W.A.G.7

Query: Why is it the case of some manufacturers that sedans seem to be selling more than their hatchbacks? (Honda, Nissan, Skoda, Toyota for example) Their hatchbacks are equally competent, if not more than their sedans; but yet sales of their hatchbacks have not picked up quite as expected.

Hatchback segment is extremely competitive. Most of the top manufacturers are into hatchbacks as that's where majority of the car buyers get in. As a result it is a fiercely competitive segment that offers more for less. That's the mantra. In such a segment, the premium pricing of the hatchbacks from Nissan and Skoda hardly helps. Toyota on the other hand tried to balance the price but with car that many perceived as a strictly built to a cost thing.

Dilemma for these manufacturers is that they do not manage to compete either in the mass market (read A and B1 class) off hatch backs neither do they have enough oomph factor to make themselves so distingiushable that they can lure away the wafer thin number of buyers in the premium hatchback segment where a Hyundai alone is steam rolling others with it's stupendously successful i20.

[quattroa4]

Note from Team-BHP Support: Post deleted. Your post contains several grammatical and spelling errors making it very difficult to read for our members. Please take the time to compose your posts carefully in future

[arjab]

Linea: 184
HM Amby: 200
:

Enough said.

[shivasuma]

Excellent data and analysis GTO & team. Every month, I see I20 selling 6K to 7K and hyundai laughing all the way to the bank. This is a car that doesn't excel in any one area (probably performance in a straight line for the diesel variant, but most don't even know that) but is a jack of all trades(space, features, variants at every price point, build etc). I see the other thread where people have said that the i20 is one of the worst cars they have driven, but the indian public doesn't think the same way. The reason could be that they never intent to use the car at/beyond its limit(read city driving most of the time) and hence i20 delivers what they are looking for.

I am seriously shocked at the numbers Aria is doing. Tata must be wondering what to do next. Probably people think its not wise to invest that much in a tata MUV. If it was a SUV, how would it have fared (a tata XUV 500?)?

[mayankjha1806]

@quattroa4

While it does looks like Tata has made some irresponsible mistakes and thereby killing their own products (overpricing Aria, and delaying Storme), i would not draw a conclusion just yet.

Tata's are no minnows, while i dislike some of their actions i have full faith that they can strike back. All they need is a right priced Aria and absolutely niggle free high quality Storme and that would be enough to eat others for breakfast.

BTW i am no blind Tata fan, and the only car i bought from them was Indica, but i admire the progress they have made.

PS: Would like to add, i am no Mahindra hater, but with XUV, seriously i think it needed more testing before launch.

[rrsteer]

Originally Posted by quattroa4

wait , before coming to such a conclusion and supporting tata won't hide its disastrous statergies towards its products . its onlt tata itself to blame for their performance and nobody else

Disastrous strategies could be. But that doesn't equate TML being laid back or for that matter their products are rubbish. The fact is they make respectable products, which are great VFM but for various reasons, not least the tough market conditions, are not performing well.

Regarding your assertion about Safari/Sumo. It is well known that since the time Indica was proposed, TML had started to focus its energies on passenger car market at the expense of its UV business. Disastrous strategy it may be, it was certainly not a blind decision, as you say.This was a choice which was made after considerable deliberations.

My employer does a lot of advisory business with this company. TML has vision and that is one thing we like about it. It has been hit hard...very hard. But I would just say, its a great company which is currently doing a lot of right things, which will take time to translate into results. And yes they will continue to show a blind eye or atleast a squinted eye to UV business.

[carboy]

Originally Posted by rrsteer

It is well known that since the time Indica was proposed, TML had started to focus its energies on passenger car market at the expense of its UV business. Disastrous strategy it may be, it was certainly not a blind decision, as you say.This was a choice which was made after considerable deliberations.

Why couldn't they focus on both - Passenger Cars and UV? It's not as if they were short of money or anything?

[racer_ash]

Originally Posted by shivasuma

Excellent data and analysis GTO & team. Every month, I see I20 selling 6K to 7K and hyundai laughing all the way to the bank. This is a car that doesn't excel in any one area (probably performance in a straight line for the diesel variant, but most don't even know that) but is a jack of all trades(space, features, variants at every price point, build etc). I see the other thread where people have said that the i20 is one of the worst cars they have driven, but the indian public doesn't think the same way. The reason could be that they never intent to use the car at/beyond its limit(read city driving most of the time) and hence i20 delivers what they are looking for

Sorry for going

While I have to agree with you that i20 is not a great handler, it is certainly not the worst driven car as claimed by many people. We have a swift and i20 at home and we are more comfortable and assured while in an i20 than in a swift because of its amazing brakes, good comfort levels and the safety features on offer. What is the use of the so called high speed prowess if the swift doesnt even have decent brakes to stop it in panic situations.

Also, i20 does many things extremely well (space, creature comfort, city driving, build, smoothness) compared to the competition and only some things dont go with it like handling at speeds above 130, steering feedback again at speeds above 130 etc. But how many people will barrel down the highway at more than 130kmph and on how many occasions? Given our conditions, its surely not safe even in a supercar.

[Fusion2006]

Wow. The Fluence actually sold more cars last month than the new Fiesta.

Who would've ever thought of that...

[Mister_M]

Originally Posted by GTO

I seriously hope you are joking. If this is what Jazz sales really are, yes, the petrol price hike hasn't affects its sales. But I don't think you can draw the conclusion that buyers are now understanding its value.

Rather, the Jazz was a flop before the petrol price hike, and remains a flop after the price hike. Two of it's direct competitors sell 10 - 20 times more. Clearly, only a minority of Indian car buyers see any value in the Jazz, and prefer its competitors instead.

BTW, I am a fan of the Honda Jazz and do think that it's one of the most sensible hatchbacks in our country. But your post is very misleading and I'd advise you to stay away from such posts.

Hi GTO, I guess there is a misunderstanding here.

I never mentioned Jazz has become successful after the petrol price hike. As you said, it was a flop before and is the same after considering its compoetitors selling 10 - 20 times more in numbers.

My point is, there has been enough discussions in the past 2 months regarding sudden increase on Jazz numbers (April and May). Many Jazz-fans including me were waiting for the next monthly figures if the same trend continues or not. With June figures in hand, it is somewhat clear that April and Figures were mostly backlogs the company had due to unfortunate Floods in Thailand.

In the pre-flood scenario, the numbers were like below:
Jul 11': 275
Aug 11': 600
Sep 11': 596
Oct 11': 463
Nov 11': 382
Dec 11': 296
Jan 12': 0
Feb 12': 356
Mar 12': 535

In Apr and May this year Honda managed filling out their backlogs after resuming supplies. The figures in these months were:
Apr 12': 1300
May 12': 1978

Now, many Honda Dealers are giving almost "immediate Deliveries" of Jazz units. (Ex: http://www.team-bhp.com/forum/offici...ml#post2826378)Meaning, no more backlogs on this car.

Now, I tend to compare this month's scenario (June 12': 649 units) with the trend of this car before they actually had backlogs (March 2012 and before). June seems to be clearly the best numbers for this car since mid last year. As I had mentioned, it has even reached 100+ additional units (than March numbers) in May end / June start where we had the 7.5 rupee petrol price hike.

Originally Posted by Mister_M

.... JAZZ figures are back to its normalcy...

When the overall trand is changing where petrolheads are slowly changing on to the Diesels, this increase in Jazz is quite surprising. This is exactly where I meant "buyers are now starting to understand its value". We must probably wait for the sales report for the oncoming months to actually arrive at a conclusion here.

I hope you got my point now, I don't tend to give any misleading ideas. And do correct me if this is still wrong, we after all try to bring the best analysis out of this Block-buster report through different view points, healthy debates and exchange of ideas!

Cheers

[karanraheja]

Originally Posted by BurningHeart

Why Verito is losing out? It is a brilliant car for the taxi market. What is taking its place?

Etios Diesel is quite popular among the Taxi Segment now thanks to the T badge. Maybe a Verito CS might help.

Originally Posted by W.A.G.7

Query: Why is it the case of some manufacturers that sedans seem to be selling more than their hatchbacks? (Honda, Nissan, Skoda, Toyota for example) Their hatchbacks are equally competent, if not more than their sedans; but yet sales of their hatchbacks have not picked up quite as expected.

Good question. The hatch market is over crowded. Apart from Swift, i20 and the Beat to an extent sales of other premium hatches are mediocre.

Originally Posted by GTO

Honda’s Yo-Yo performance is back

Quoting herewith statement given by Mr. Jnaneswar Sen, Sr. VP - Sales and Marketing, HSCI,

During June 2012, we deliberately held back whole-sales to avoid stock build-up at the dealerships. The consumer sentiment is quite low, as high petrol prices alongwith high borrowing costs has impacted the overall demand for cars. We hope that situation improves quickly and there is recovery in the market before the festival season.

[S_U_N]

Excellent analysis, once again.
I somehow do not agree that the industry needs government support. We are adding more and more cars on our streets everyday, without the other support infrastructure in place. So, if sales are down, then so be the case. It will be survival of the fittest at the end.

One comment on WagonR: I have seen more CNG models sold in the last few months than the normal petrol ones and the LPG ones combined. So, CNG option is contributing significantly to the tally. Good work from Maruti.

[carboy]

Originally Posted by S_U_N

One comment on WagonR: I have seen more CNG models sold in the last few months than the normal petrol ones and the LPG ones combined. So, CNG option is contributing significantly to the tally. Good work from Maruti.

Wagon CNG - is it open loop, closed loop or sequential? Also does this get fitted in the factory or does it get sent out to one of the CNG installers for installation? Also what's the cost difference between a CNG and non-CNG model?

[samarjitdhar]

Originally Posted by GTO

BTW, I am a fan of the Honda Jazz and do think that it's one of the most sensible hatchbacks in our country. But your post is very misleading and I'd advise you to stay away from such posts.

Unless the original poster was driving a truckload of sarcasm at Honda through that post .

Seriously at Honda, there probably would be some heads rolling now given the shocking numbers. The City should have at least crossed 2K. Even the Brio sales are so anemic that Fiat would be secretly pleased with their Punto sales. Hopefully the Brio diesel will do some good for Honda whenever it launches provided its sweetly priced. Honda simply failed to see the writing on the wall when petrol de-regularization was announced about 3 years back. Most regular joe car users back then realized that ditching petrol cars for diesels would be the way to go but Honda seemed to have got stuck forever with their petrol only approach. Its paying a pretty heavy price now and I seriously doubt that the diesel Brio will bring smiles back in the Honda board meetings.

EDIT:

Originally Posted by Mister_M

Hi GTO, I guess there is a misunderstanding here.

Okay I stand corrected .