[.sushilkumar]

Originally Posted by maheshramaling

If they take the approach of "give it or leave it" - why resort to this kind of violence? If you don't want to fight (legally) against the injustice - why fight at all??? Just resign and do something else.

easy to say but hard to do . As a worker, i will always be looking to get max out of my current assignment where as mgmt will always try to get max out of me for as less as possible But mgmt hold the edge here not the worker & it;s more or less same everywhere. Add the limited opportunities with their skill set and we get the complete picture.

Unfortunately the labor laws are outdated and if one tries to seek legal recourse, he knows that his career is more or less over .

Originally Posted by sgiitk

What I saw on the box is even more shocking. They first broke both his legs before setting him on fire. The bone of contention - just two tea breaks of 7:30 each and one lunch break of 30 minutes. Otherwise we have the license to murder.

From News report, the GM Died of suffocation. most probably he was un conscious after having suffered the fracture & when the fire broke out he died of suffocation. I suspect if workers really wanted to kill the GM . The chaos just ensured that nobody knew that poor GM is inside & hence he dies of suffocation. it was a Unfortunate event IMO which nobody wanted in first place.

[mahesh.kolary]

Originally Posted by .sushilkumar

From News report, the GM Died of suffocation. most probably he was un conscious after having suffered the fracture & when the fire broke out he died of suffocation. I suspect if workers really wanted to kill the GM . The chaos just ensured that nobody knew that poor GM is inside & hence he dies of suffocation. it was a Unfortunate event IMO which nobody wanted in first place.

+1 to that.
What happened was indeed an unfortunate sequence of events that led to one of the manger's death. Intentional or not, the truth may forever be lost.
The workers have a right to protest, the executives have a right to ensure that productivity is maximum though not at the price of torturing the workers. An amicable solution should have been reached a long time back, which I feel looks unlikely now.
May his soul RIP.

[maheshramaling]

Originally Posted by .sushilkumar

easy to say but hard to do . As a worker, i will always be looking to get max out of my current assignment where as mgmt will always try to get max out of me for as less as possible But mgmt hold the edge here not the worker & it;s more or less same everywhere. Add the limited opportunities with their skill set and we get the complete picture.

Unfortunately the labor laws are outdated and if one tries to seek legal recourse, he knows that his career is more or less over .



From News report, the GM Died of suffocation. most probably he was un conscious after having suffered the fracture & when the fire broke out he died of suffocation. I suspect if workers really wanted to kill the GM . The chaos just ensured that nobody knew that poor GM is inside & hence he dies of suffocation. it was a Unfortunate event IMO which nobody wanted in first place.

Yes - it seems to be very easy for few to break the legs of a person but seems very hard for them to take legal course. Isn't it a very funny way we work?!

You break the legs of a person and leave him unconsicious and later set the place in fire...is it a unfortunate event or a pre-planned murder??

It's like saying I hit you and leave you unconscious on the train track and I am not responsibile for your death if train crushes you. Guess - it is the fault of the train driver and the person who was lying there without making an effort to move...Right?

[.sushilkumar]

Originally Posted by maheshramaling

Yes - it seems to be very easy for few to break the legs of a person but seems very hard for them to take legal course. Isn't it a very funny way we work?!

You break the legs of a person and leave him unconsicious and later set the place in fire...is it a unfortunate event or a pre-planned murder??

It's like saying I hit you and leave you unconscious on the train track and I am not responsibile for your death if train crushes you. Guess - it is the fault of the train driver and the person who was lying there without making an effort to move...Right?

Sir , i am no way supporting workers actions & saying that they are not responsible for the death of GM . They are responsible for the death and guilty must be punished as per law but most probably it was un intentional on workers part. they all are mainly educated till ITI and have enough brain to judge whether the killing will help their cause or not. i am just speculating as to what might have happened .

It was a Un intentional Murder IMO . A accident which should not have happened under all circumstances .

As for taking legal course goes ,pls don;t forget we Are living in india . let us talk practically. There are tons of examples where person tried to took legal recourse and in turn destroyed his / her career & died waiting for justice. recent example being Air india;s pilots . even after striking for 2 months , they got nothing and has to return to work. AI has refused to install those who were sacked (Some 100 + pilots).

[mempheS.D]

Originally Posted by .sushilkumar

As for taking legal course goes ,pls don;t forget we Are living in india . let us talk practically.

Welcome to the land where MIGHTIS RIGHT !

[shashank.nk]

There seems to be some serious labour issues at the Manesar Plant, last year it was shutdown for a month or so and violence erupts again to claim someone's life! Truly sad state of affairs.

When workers resumed work last year after strike, it was clear not all of their demands were met and this time around it may be a much longer shutdown.

[RSR]

Originally Posted by sgiitk

What I saw on the box is even more shocking. They first broke both his legs before setting him on fire. The bone of contention - just two tea breaks of 7:30 each and one lunch break of 30 minutes. Otherwise we have the license to murder.

If that is indeed what happened, it is a despicable act of utter barbarism by the mob With every passing day, I'm slowly getting the feeling that the Brits leaving the sub-continent in '47 may not have been a good thing after all. If it goes on at this rate, even God Almighty will not be able to save this country

Originally Posted by .sushilkumar

From News report, the GM Died of suffocation. most probably he was un conscious after having suffered the fracture & when the fire broke out he died of suffocation. I suspect if workers really wanted to kill the GM . The chaos just ensured that nobody knew that poor GM is inside & hence he dies of suffocation. it was a Unfortunate event IMO which nobody wanted in first place.

I agree that the workers probably didn't go into the building with an intention of killing him, but in such a wild mob frenzy all sense of decency and humane behaviour goes out of the window. We will never really know what actually happened with all the contradicting news reports. I don't trust the police to do a thorough, professional investigation into who or what caused his death either. I just can't imagine the trauma that his family and friends must be going through at this moment. May God be with them through these horrible times.

One report also suggests that the mob broke into the executives' parked cars to remove the side impact protection beams with which they beat up the managers. This sounds highly improbable. It isn't easy to remove the beams that are fixed into the doors with bare hands in a few moments, even for workers who put together these cars. Either they grabbed the impact protection beams (and struts) from the factory floor/inventory or they improvised these deadly weapons from some other material that was lying around.

The government/police incompetents are reacting in exactly the same manner as I expected them to. I don't know what Maruti Suzuki's next moves would be with regard to the Manesar factory and all its troubles. The end user would, of course, be one of the sufferers in all this mess with unscrupulous dealers looking to make a quick buck by using this terrible incident as a pretext to create artificial scarcity/waiting periods for the Swift/Dzire models.

[srishiva]

Originally Posted by .sushilkumar

Sir , i am no way supporting workers actions & saying that they are not responsible for the death of GM . They are responsible for the death and guilty must be punished as per law but most probably it was un intentional on workers part. they all are mainly educated till ITI and have enough brain to judge whether the killing will help their cause or not. i am just speculating as to what might have happened .

It was a Un intentional Murder IMO . A accident which should not have happened under all circumstances .

As for taking legal course goes ,pls don;t forget we Are living in india . let us talk practically. There are tons of examples where person tried to took legal recourse and in turn destroyed his / her career & died waiting for justice. recent example being Air india;s pilots . even after striking for 2 months , they got nothing and has to return to work. AI has refused to install those who were sacked (Some 100 + pilots).

I find it really disturbing that you use words like 'unintentional'. When you set fire intentionally, use metal rods intentionally, what result would you expect?

I read labour unions saying, the company doesn't understand the ethos of this country and blah blah, so its against the foreign management? Brave fighters these people were.

[.sushilkumar]

Originally Posted by mempheS.D

Welcome to the land where MIGHTIS RIGHT !

I could n ;t get what you are trying to convey here but we all know that taking a legal recourse in india is like shooting in own foot. it take ages for justice and as when it comes , it;s irrelevant by that time.

Originally Posted by srishiva

I find it really disturbing that you use words like 'unintentional'. When you set fire intentionally, use metal rods intentionally, what result would you expect?

I read labour unions saying, the company doesn't understand the ethos of this country and blah blah, so its against the foreign management? Brave fighters these people were.

I used word "Unintentional" Because workers didn ;t went to HR with rods in hand. they went there to talk first & resolve the matter but mgmt didn;t cared to listen to the workers thus suspending him , instead they sided with the supervisor who has used derogatory words about workers caste. Definitely there was a provocation from other side, which resulted in workers resorting to rods.

[W.A.G.7]

What a sorry state of affairs. Why do these people(those who set him on fire) call themselves human? Whatever may be their problems, there is no way that these labourers could take the matter in their own hands. They had no right to kill a person. The lawlessness is increasing day by day. Today its Haryana, tomorrow it will be somewhere else. The place is insignificant, it's the bad energies which contribute to such horrible acts. Such people must be punished, and punished hard. I wish that there were strong laws and rules (and also proper implementation of these), which would have acted as a deterrent to such cowardly acts.

[mahesh.kolary]

Originally Posted by RSR

I don't know what Maruti Suzuki's next moves would be with regard to the Manesar factory and all its troubles.

Looks like Modi has swung into action mode. In the report I read in The Economic Times, he plans to go to Japan the next week to convince the honchos there to shut down the plant in Manesar and move the factory to Gujarat.

Maybe Modi will indeed transform Gujarat into the automobile hub of India as he has told long back.

[maheshramaling]

Originally Posted by .sushilkumar

As for taking legal course goes ,pls don;t forget we Are living in india . let us talk practically. There are tons of examples where person tried to took legal recourse and in turn destroyed his / her career & died waiting for justice. recent example being Air india;s pilots . even after striking for 2 months , they got nothing and has to return to work. AI has refused to install those who were sacked (Some 100 + pilots).

You are correct that legal battle is a long drawn one and some might not even see the end of the legal battle since they die waiting for the justice.

I along with our fellow workers went against back in '95's against the company which was buying our factory. Even complained against them in various forums including labour department. Yet - we were not penalised and continued to work there.

It was because, we did not disturb harmony of the plant, we continued to churn full production targets and shipping goods, regularly engaged with management and brokered a deal. And - to be frank - I and my fellow collegeus were not even graduates back then. Our thumb rule was simple - that don't give management a chance to find fault with us.... and it worked.

Like I said before - there would have something else which caused this incident be it the fault of management or labourers/ union yet - labourers resorting to violence & killing (not accidental) someone is not at all justified and in that process they have just dug their own grave.

[chncar]

Originally Posted by srishiva

I find it really disturbing that you use words like 'unintentional'. When you set fire intentionally, use metal rods intentionally, what result would you expect?

I read labour unions saying, the company doesn't understand the ethos of this country and blah blah, so its against the foreign management? Brave fighters these people were.

+1 to that.

People who rationalize communist/maoist violence IMHO are just as bad as the perpetrators on the ground. There are scores of these folks in the media and elsewhere who sit in airconditioned offices and jet set to international conferences where they justify people derailing trains and hacking to death innocent people as spontaneous and genuine reaction of suppressed people when in reality these are carefully orchestrated acts of militant goons. Of course they still cry crocodile tears for the 'unfortunate' and 'regrettable' incidents.

[samarjitdhar]

I think we should also take the news coming out of the media outlets with a lot of salt since they tend to sensationalize even the trivial news items and here is a tragedy on which they can start negotiating premium ad rates. A lot has been already covered about the lack of proper policing, laws, implementation, etc. where in lies the problem. I somewhere feel and this is my personal opinion, Maruti has been probably a little lackadaisical in handling their labor issues. We never hear even serious problems reported, forget such extreme situations, for their competitors who are not really so small to be ignored and I am not talking about the Nissans or VWs here. The Tatas, Hyundais and Mahindras don't seem to be such a troubled lot. I have first hand experience being from the steel city where Tatas run two successful operations with both permanent and temp labor in even more exacting conditions. Never have I heard of such issues and labor taking law into their hands. I mean there must be something going wrong out there and Maruti must find a permanent solution to prevent such unnecessary and tragic loss of life in the future. Shifting to Sanand is going to solve zilch if they do not put down their heads and solve their fundamental issues and these kind of problems will again rear its ugly head wherever they go. Its not that they had hired all hardened criminals to work for them hence the blame must entirely lie with those who build those Swifts and WagonRs. I am not taking sides here and this is all my personal opinion.

[mempheS.D]

Originally Posted by .sushilkumar

I couldn't get what you are trying to convey here but we all know that taking a legal recourse in india is like shooting in own foot. It takes ages for justice and as when it comes , it's irrelevant by that time.

I meant, I agree with what you are saying. I am neither for, nor against. One could not really tell what actually happened at the factory that pumped the adrenaline of the workers to commit a murder - intentional or otherwise. I am sure there's more to be uncovered and let's not leave aside the political driving forces too.

Come to think of it.. it's the 4th unrest at the plant after June 2011, and why is it always Manesar? At least from the part of India that I come from, labour unions are also backed strongly by political parties. Political parties have strong hidden agendas which also open the possibility for a planned move as this. It's "possible" is what I'm saying.