[roy_libran]

In the light of all this interesting discussion, I cannot but help recall, what happened to RBS, IMMEDIATELY AFTER, Sachin was made it's brand ambassador in 2008.
Let's just hope that the German government have their coffers lined up just as the UK government had.

Not to give or take anything away from Sachin or his accomplishments though.

[vb-saan]

Originally Posted by Parthasarathig

And one would be wrong to assume that many people wouldnt know about BMW in far off places. People watch tv, read newspapers and magazines and so many times we've seen BMW ads. And to think adding Sachin will bring recognition to those few people who arent in the know about the brand, think again. These people have seen him in malted powder ads, pens, laptops, life insurance, treat biscuits and none of them are premium items. These few people will then think BMW also isnt a premium item and will rather run to a Merc showroom.

Partha, I guess one of the main gripe you have is - why a person endorsing cheap products should go and become a brand ambassador for a premium brand like BMW. What is cheap for you maybe premium for someone else (and vice versa). There maybe many who find a Toshiba laptop aspirational, in the same way many of us find a BMW aspirational (and I am sure there are many folks for whom BMW is just another brand). Not just about Sachin, I personally don’t find anything wrong in a known celebrity endorsing products across various price bands, be it a car, biscuit or chocolates (except for fairness creams)

Originally Posted by Parthasarathig

I wish Sachin would also promote hockey with some enthusiasm.

It will not really work when a sportsperson promote a sport which s/he has no connection with. Anyway, why not the sports administrators do something about this? And in India, how many channels are willing to bid for telecast rights of sports other than cricket?

I am interested to see how this association evolves – whether it will be fruitful for BMW, or will fizzle off…

[souravc]

As the editor os BS Motoring clarified on a radio chat discussion , Sachin is not the brand ambassador for BMW in India , his association is only limited to the 3 series . That makes a bit more sense .

Personally , I worship Sachin as a great player and a fantastic human being ( Dravid and Sachin are simply wow ! in this respect ) but somehow Sachin as a car lover / connoisseur doesn't gel well ever since he sold off his Ferrari . IMO he committed 3 follies :-
1. If one loves Ferrari , one cannot sell it - even Ferrari punishes it by increasing the waiting period for a new car if the person ever wants to buy a new one again ( it gets extended from 2 years to 3 years approx) . A Ferrari comes etched with the name of the first owner on the engine block and the chassis as I understand . Sachin , I am sure , didn't have any financial reason to sell the car
2. Indian ethos frown upon selling a gift ! Sachin didn't have to pay a pie for the car , it was a gift .. inclusive of duties , etc . If he wanted to get rid of the car , better to auction it off and contribute ( the guy though contributes a lot towards charity otherwise so no cribs out here )
3. A gift from Michael Schumacher - anyone who care 2 hoots about cars would surely treasure such a gift . Or is it that Sachin is a bigger icon than Schumi so he didn't feel the need to keep it !

[StarrySky]

Thanks for cleaning up the thread, GTO.

Going by the ads for the new 3-series on TV, BMW seems to be marketing the new 3-series as a legendary car with a strong and long history of success. Sachin's career also fits into that sort of description.

Also, in marketing-speak "Joy is BMW" and "Sachin brings joy to Indians when he goes out to bat". So BMW might have seen a connect at that level too.

[ac 427]

The Reason Brands choose brand endorsers are because they believe that once they have a brand endorser, followers of the endorser will also start following the brand. Example : Kids who love, Sehwag have a affinity towards boost. If not a direct buy but the resistance towards the brand goes down, which is the job of the brand endorser. Also the brand ambassador creates a differentiation for the brand in the consumers mind.

Now to say that brand endorsers don't work is wrong, because there are brand endorsers for Super Luxury products (Gorbachev for Louis Vuitton) and for basic FMCG products. Hence proving that they work.

But I see Sachin as a disconnect because of the following:
1. Loyalty: First and foremost, you cant have a endorser who was endorsing your competitors products, also he had really big stories when he was endorsing FIAT. e.g: the free Ferrari, his meets with M. Schumacher... He has never been a BWM Person (other than the M5 which he owns)

2. Aggression: I see BMW as a aggressive brand, but sachin sadly no more is the aggressive batsman he used to be.

3. Believability: Everyone knows that Sachin is a speed freak - he owning the GTR, M5 etc support the same, but as i Mentioned above he never has been a BMW fan.

I think a brand ambassador is a good idea, but that has to be well thought through, as the ambassador carries the name of the brand on his shoulder.

Hence i think that sachin, does not do justice to the BMW Brand

cheers,
ac

Example.

[joslicx]

Originally Posted by ac 427

I think a brand ambassador is a good idea, but that has to be well thought through, as the ambassador carries the name of the brand on his shoulder.

Hence i think that sachin, does not do justice to the BMW Brand

Hasnt it been clarified by souravc's post above that Sachin has NOT become the brand ambassador of BMW??? or we just dont want to know facts and purport baseless rants here?

Even if BMW were to anoint a brand ambassador few in India are more qualified. Certainly he is much much more qualified than the likes of Ranbir Kapoor or Nargis Faqri or Katrina kaif et al. who are not even good at what they are supposed to do (i.e act)!!! Is that what BMW is about - only looks and no functions??? I dont think so.

Tendulkar I could argue would be a good choice. He is arguably the pinnacle of batting, something BMW could also argue - that they are the pinnacle of automobile engineering. He can be very aggressive (in fact the most aggressive) when in mood, just like a BMW. He is Mr. Reliable - something BMW might want to argue it is. He has an appeal that cuts across age groups and across boundaries - like a BMW. He is certainly much more known for owning and caring about cars in India - more than any other "celebrity".

So what if he sold his Ferrari - maybe he got bored of it (dont people sell their Ferraris ever?? We have the example of an ex-member here who sold his new Lambo isint it?) These kind of cars are very high maintenance and in any case people keep exchanging them in those circles. So what if it was a gift. Once the car was his, its his prerogative what he does with it. He kept it for 10 years. Thats a very long association in my books. Its plain jealousy and nothing else - to see people taking pot shots at him like that. As if we have kept all the gifts we've received in our lives and are going to keep them forever as well! I'd be interested in meeting such a person. That sinners and stones story comes to mind here.

[ac 427]

Originally Posted by joslicx

Hasnt it been clarified by souravc's post above that Sachin has NOT become the brand ambassador of BMW??? or we just dont want to know facts and purport baseless rants here?

Even if BMW were to anoint a brand ambassador few in India are more qualified. Certainly he is much much more qualified than the likes of Ranbir Kapoor or Nargis Faqri or Katrina kaif et al. who are not even good at what they are supposed to do (i.e act)!!! Is that what BMW is about - only looks and no functions??? I dont think so.

Tendulkar I could argue would be a good choice. He is arguably the pinnacle of batting, something BMW could also argue - that they are the pinnacle of automobile engineering. He can be very aggressive (in fact the most aggressive) when in mood, just like a BMW. He is Mr. Reliable - something BMW might want to argue it is. He has an appeal that cuts across age groups and across boundaries - like a BMW. He is certainly much more known for owning and caring about cars in India - more than any other "celebrity".

So what if he sold his Ferrari - maybe he got bored of it (dont people sell their Ferraris ever?? We have the example of an ex-member here who sold his new Lambo isint it?) These kind of cars are very high maintenance and in any case people keep exchanging them in those circles.

Hey,

This is a forum, no one is 'ranting' out here. Everyone has a POV.

Second - My bad as i did not read sauravs post.

Third - I still stick to what I said, to the known person Raja Ranjit Sinh was the ultimate batsman or was it then Sir Donald Bradman..or was it Sir Vivian Richards ? Its always arguable. When one chooses a Ambassador one sees the association/attributes/ soft aspects of the ambassador and then see how they relate to the brand.

Was Sachin aggressive, yes. Is he. NO.
Is sachin relatable, yes. Is he relatable with high end products.No. (and hence he does not endorse any high end brands)
Is Sachin dependable, yes. But will he be dependable for long - No. As his future is a big question mark.
His Appeal: While he strikes a chord with Pan India, but can he 'influence' the thinking of the really educated ? - No.

Sachin is the middle class Indian boy who made it big but does that make him relatable to high end product no.

One would relate Saif Ali Khan with high end living rather than Sachin (Even though Sachin might be earning 10 times than saif ali) these are associations which dont change over night.

Hope this clears and educates.

cheers,
ac

[joslicx]

Originally Posted by ac 427

Hey,

This is a forum, no one is 'ranting' out here. Everyone has a POV.

Second - My bad as i did not read sauravs post.

Third - I still stick to what I said, to the known person Raja Ranjit Sinh was the ultimate batsman or was it then Sir Donald Bradman..or was it Sir Vivian Richards ? Its always arguable. When one chooses a Ambassador one sees the association/attributes/ soft aspects of the ambassador and then see how they relate to the brand.

How are Ranjit Singh or Don Bradman even relevant here? Certainly BMW cant appoint dead people their brand ambassadors or could they?

Was Sachin aggressive, yes. Is he. NO.
Is sachin relatable, yes. Is he relatable with high end products.No. (and hence he does not endorse any high end brands)
Is Sachin dependable, yes. But will he be dependable for long - No. As his future is a big question mark.
His Appeal: While he strikes a chord with Pan India, but can he 'influence' the thinking of the really educated ? - No.

Sachin is the middle class Indian boy who made it big but does that make him relatable to high end product no.

One would relate Saif Ali Khan with high end living rather than Sachin (Even though Sachin might be earning 10 times than saif ali) these are associations which dont change over night.

Hope this clears and educates.

cheers,
ac

Thanks for educating but I thought there are lot of middle class people driving Mercs and BMWs around or are these cars only for rajas and maharajahs (and I highly doubt any rajas/maharajahs drive around in BMWs otherwise who drives around in those Rolls?)

Guys like Bill Gates or Laxmi Mittal rose from middle class backgrounds. I guess they shouldnt be seen around these "high class" products either.

Ans yes, thanks for telling that you arent really educated if Sachin strikes a chord with you (whatever it means).

[ac 427]

Originally Posted by joslicx

How are Ranjit Singh or Don Bradman even relevant here? Certainly BMW cant appoint dead people their brand ambassadors or could they?



Thanks for educating but I thought there are lot of middle class people driving Mercs and BMWs around or are these cars only for rajas and maharajahs (and I highly doubt any rajas/maharajahs drive around in BMWs otherwise who drives around in those Rolls?)

Guys like Bill Gates or Laxmi Mittal rose from middle class backgrounds. I guess they shouldnt be seen around these "high class" products either.

Ans yes, thanks for telling that you arent really educated if Sachin strikes a chord with you (whatever it means).

And I dont know which part of India you live in - but in Mumbai definately the Middle class here do not drive Mercs / BMWs. Probably this is the reason why your thinking is a bit skewed.

And wrt Ranji Singh / Don Bradman .. I mean Sachin is not the greatest Batsman..which BMW always talks about 'ultimate driving experience' or 'sheer driving pleasure' which leads to 'the best'. Is sachin the best - now thats arguable. And that is the point i was making..but I hope you get it now!

I dont wish to make this forum any more off topic.

cheers,
ac

[esteem_lover]

Originally Posted by ac 427

Sachin is the middle class Indian boy who made it big but does that make him relatable to high end product no.

One would relate Saif Ali Khan with high end living rather than Sachin

Aren't most of the upper middle class nouveau rich from the same middle class, finished engineering, swept into the IT industry, flying and working abroad and yearning to buy a bimmer/Merc/Audi ?

Surely Royal families would not want to buy a BMW to showcase their style. 30L is about the tipping point for many a Upper Middle class Indian, even 70L is possible, only that we in India prefer to buy the house first.

[Daewood]

Originally Posted by joslicx

Certainly he is much much more qualified than the likes of Ranbir Kapoor or Nargis Faqri or Katrina kaif et al. who are not even good at what they are supposed to do (i.e act)!!! Is that what BMW is about - only looks and no functions??? I dont think so.

That's not the way Celebrity-Branding works.
If so please explain why a Genelia D'Souza won branding contracts by the dozen or why a less successful actor like Sneha dominates the southern branding scene. A brand's association with a celebrity is based on their perceived 'personality' rather than on their statistical achievements.

People are forgetting its BMW who approached Sachin not the other way round. What was he supposed to say. Get out of my door???

Every Celebrity is represented by a Celeb-Management company, whose job is to look out for best possible offers on behalf of the star and negotiate a mutually agreeable price and conditions. It's two way traffic and not one way as you have imagined.

[ac 427]

Originally Posted by esteem_lover

Aren't most of the upper middle class nouveau rich from the same middle class, finished engineering, swept into the IT industry, flying and working abroad and yearning to buy a bimmer/Merc/Audi ?

Agree.

The point here is Sachin has always related with the Middle Class more, and not with the top end of the bracket. That fact is also mirrored in the products he endorses
- Boost, Pepsi, Action Shoes , MRF , Adidas , Britannia , Fiat Palio , TVS , ESPN Star Sports , Sunfeast , Canon , Airtel , Reynolds , G-Hanz , Sanyo BPL , Toshiba , Colgate-Palmolive, Philips, VISA, Castrol India , Ujala Techno Bright, Coca-Cola

none of these are high end products.

While acc to me Sachin is Demi God in India, and what he has done for Indian Cricket, no one has.

But as a role - he does not fit the role of a Brand Ambassador for a Luxury brand.


cheers
ac

[StarrySky]

Originally Posted by ac 427

Sachin is the middle class Indian boy who made it big but does that make him relatable to high end product no.

It may also fit the profile of a 3-series buyer who may also be a middle class boy who is doing well in his own field.

[ac 427]

Originally Posted by StarrySky

It may also fit the profile of a 3-series buyer who may also be a middle class boy who is doing well in his own field.

well than he ceases to be a middle class man

As per economic times and a survey done middle class is : As per the study, which uses 'household income' as the criterion, a family with an annual income between Rs 3.4 lakh to Rs 17 lakh (at 2009-10 price levels) falls in the middle class category.
Source: India's middle class population to touch 267 million in 5 yrs - Economic Times

cheers,
ac

[joslicx]

Originally Posted by Daewood

That's not the way Celebrity-Branding works.
If so please explain why a Genelia D'Souza won branding contracts by the dozen or why a less successful actor like Sneha dominates the southern branding scene. A brand's association with a celebrity is based on their perceived 'personality' rather than on their statistical achievements.

Totally agree with you there. Thats why Sachin remains one of the top endorsing celebrities here in India. He has certainly earned much more than any other celebrity that I can think of (maybe with the exception of Dhoni).

Every Celebrity is represented by a Celeb-Management company, whose job is to look out for best possible offers on behalf of the star and negotiate a mutually agreeable price and conditions. It's two way traffic and not one way as you have imagined.

Well the management company is there for contract negotiations, terms etc. But still BMW would have approached them first and not the other way round. Do you think they should have said No thanks to BMW for the million dollars offered to Sachin to come and smile at an event organised by them???

Originally Posted by ac 427

well than he ceases to be a middle class man

As per economic times and a survey done middle class is : As per the study, which uses 'household income' as the criterion, a family with an annual income between Rs 3.4 lakh to Rs 17 lakh (at 2009-10 price levels) falls in the middle class category.
Source: India's middle class population to touch 267 million in 5 yrs - Economic Times

cheers,
ac

So then by your definition Sachin moved out of being middle class long long ago. So since he is no longer middle class its unfair to associate that image with him (just like Bill Gates or Laxmi Mittal for example). Then whatever you said earlier simply becomes moot!

If you ask me I'd rather Sachin be associated with BMW than chhote Nawab. Sachin is at least a self-made person who has risen in this world thru his hard work and sheer talent. What is that worthy of note about the Jr Pataudi except being born with a silver spoon in his mouth. I do not connect with him at all.