[tsk1979]

Originally Posted by Debcha

Agree with you 100%. My only observation about people in India (including myself) has been that we generally tend to be less forgiving to our products & are also willing to pay less for the same. The Japs & the Americans do give the extra leeway to their own, which is sad from our perspective. Most of us would not be agreeable to give the same price to an Indian car on a like to like basis. Even for the XUV, many buy it because it is cheaper than the Endeavour or the Fortuner.

Very strange argument. Would anybody here be willing to pay the same the same amount for a Toyota Fortuner, as they would pay for a Jaguar(owned by Tata)?
Brand has nothing to do with the owning country. Skoda as a brand from a east block country(with not too strong an economy) is perceived as premium. Hyundai from one of the most developed nations of the world is considered as entry level.
The thing is, it is easy to twist the argument citing "India bashing", and "Phoren loving".
Brands sell by reputation. Hyundai, Toyota and honda sell in the USA too based on reputation.

[mallumowgli]

Originally Posted by tsk1979

Brands sell by reputation. Hyundai, Toyota and honda sell in the USA too based on reputation.

Very true - Maruti sells in India due to the reputation it has built in here over the years, not because it is Japanese.

Tata had a wonderful opportunity. Nearly 15 years from the launch of Indica till now, and they have squandered that. Even now they are floating around like a rudder-less ship. I remember a Ratan Tata interview where he was saying that they must seriously address the issue of reducing the time to get a new product to the market. I don't think that has happened. In fact the time has increased, I feel.

It will be difficult to predict whether Tata will be able to regain their market scenario in the current market conditions. But if they are not going to have a clear market by the time the industry turns around, then they are doomed

[sahakar]

Originally Posted by Debcha

I guess Indian product bashing is in vogue - many of us take the distinct pride in taking down an Indian product while tom-toming a "Phoren" one.

While I have now moved to a French one - The 5 1/2 years of ownership of Tata Safari was blissful. Not only did I have no major hassle, this vehicle had been instrumental in saving the skin of me & my family.

By no means am I saying that Tata Motors as a company has arrived or has no further improvements to make, but so has the orthers like Suzuki, Honda & Toyata - who had to call back their cars for modifications. Everyone learns from experience & I guess TML is expected to do so.

Its your money and peace of mind on the line. Frankly nationalism comes in much later. You have to take a call and see where is the best value for your money whether you buy Indian or foreign.

Tatas did well before not because of Indians wanting to buy Indian stuff. Rather they priced everything atleast 20% less than competition or gave much more value. Now its not the case with prices almost of all car companies on par or slight deviation.

With no aspirational brand value, the only lever Tatas have cost value and pricing. Heck, now even the taxi wallahs are buying Toyotas to increase their peace of mind. So its gonna remain tough going for the Tatas.

Cheers

[sarthakgupta]

Theoretically Tata Motors has all the right ingredients for itself. MJD, their own self developed diesels, a well balanced portfolio of vehicles (most number and types of hatchbacks and UVs) which covers entire volumes market, brand awareness and a widespread after sales and service network. (Not to mention the premium Luxe brand JLR)

As other members have pointed out, Tata Motors lack their own USP. If you talk about small diesel cars - we have maruti. OTOH if we talk about UVs - Mahindra rules.

Earlier they used to have significant price advantage which is now eroding. Put inconsistent product quality and non-satisfactory after sales service in this mix and the conditions become bad for Tata.

Instead of developing numerous variants of their existing products with equally varied engine options that does little to confuse the buyer, they need to focus on providing consistent quality on their products along with decent after sales.

Start with lower end products. Once their reputation start to develop, they can launch Aria class products. Only then they can expect XUV500 like response to their products.

Let's hope Safari Storme is a step in this direction.

[abhinavinc]

I personally think that Tata Aria being a market dud really affected the planning of TATA. If the Aria had been a hit(well that would again have depended on a lot of factors) then it would have definitely increased the aspirational value of TATA cars in my personal opinion. But the fact that the Aria wasn't so well received by the market, adds to TATA's problems. I really think success of the Aria would have been a rudder for pushing up more sales of their cars from lower segments. But alas they overpriced it, and coupled with the facts that its looks are really outdated and it seems more like a bigger Indica(bad in my opinion), really went against it. See the example of the XUV, even though M&M isn't an aspirational brand the other side of 10 lacs, the VFM price and especially the overall fantastic design theme make it a huge market success.
I just wish TATA had got a different design team for the Aria, and their position wouldn't have been as downgraded as it now.

[rameshnanda]

Rather than thinking about regaining the market share, it would be good if they think about improving the quality of their products and service. If they do this, they need not work on improving the sales alone.

[vibbs]

Originally Posted by abhinavinc

I really think success of the Aria would have been a rudder for pushing up more sales of their cars from lower segments. But alas they overpriced it, and coupled with the facts that its looks are really outdated and it seems more like a bigger Indica(bad in my opinion), really went against it.

I agree to it somewhat. By all means ARIA is a very competitive machine. Though looks are subjective, I feel they should have moved away from the very evident indica family traits. That should have given it some individuality. Also had they priced it a bit more competitively it would have given the XUV a good fight. It pains to see a good product going down.

Although I seriously feel they need to do something to improve their QC drastically. They very badly need a zero defect product, a whole lot of satisfied customers with zero complaints to lift TATA up from the position they are right now. Hope Storme is a step in that direction.

[Zed]

Originally Posted by tsk1979

Very strange argument. Would anybody here be willing to pay the same the same amount for a Toyota Fortuner, as they would pay for a Jaguar(owned by Tata)?.

When it comes to Jag - Tata owning them probably plays less on the minds of consumers when they think of the brand. There are two distinct reasons.

1. Jaguar as a brand has a strong 'heritage', for the want of a better word. Even when they were owned by ford, a jag was never really a ford. And it is this 'stand out in a pack' attribute that endears Jag to the mooring public in general & buyers in particular
2. TML has not (well not yet for sure) made an attempt to alter either products or the brand proposition - and hats off to them for that. They provided the financial might that was required to turn the corner and the rest as they say is history.

[silverado]

Is this a question for its Commercial sector as well?

I dont think so, TATA MOTORS bread and butter is Truck and Bus business and i dont think their market share is down in those areas.

Forget about bigger trucks, TATA 407 and ACE are segment leaders by huge margin.

I think this Question is solely for the car segment, isnt it?

Indica + Indigo were selling in decent numbers which included sales for Vista and Manza untill last few months.

Vista seems to be neglected child from TATA motors

Nano is doing better numbers but still below expectations.
Sumo sales have increased after launch of CR4 Gold variant.

Safari Storme is round the corner ( Atleast it looks like )
Aria has lost its image bigtime atleast in our forum.

Nano diesel might give a big impetus to the brand.

With Ratan TATA retiring in Dec 2012, its up to Cyrus Mistry to ensure that brand grows from its current position.

[Mindgrinder]

what tata can do is launch a youth specific product, not nano not re-branded nano, a totally new product like Nissan has Micra and renault has Pulse, something path breaking replace indica totally with loads of features and cool looking. They already have Jag in luxury segment, or they can plan to displace Pajero, an offroading product like Safari with all the bells, whistles and looks of an XUV, they really need to create a new segment and relate to the customer that we need either a path breaking small car or rocking SUV for this market.

[mtnrajdeep]

I think their problem starts right from R&D. I have heard from reliable sources that the nano actually failed summer testing in Rajasthan and still was given the go-ahead for launch. This kind of development will automatically lead more issues in production and real-world usage. I do not know if their other products were launched in the same way.

For them to survive and gain reputation in the market, they now need more than one successful niggle free vehicles and these products need to establish their reliability over a period of time (5 -10 years). Only then they can gain a respectable reputation like Maruti or Hyundai.

[ACM]

Nice Topic, in the Medium term I see TATA doing well, though they have definately lost the plot in the short term.

They have may strengths, including access to varied platforms and technology and having a presence in almost all segments - even more so they any other brand in India.

That said they should be able to grow irrespective of M&M which too has a lot going for it and both should actually be taking market share off the rest of the brands.

Yep they need to get their quality right but I guess they are going in the right direction in that sense and now need a refresh across all model segments.

Above all they need to get their marketing right and it seems odd to see them falter in that important aspect. Marketing does not just imply advertising but also the entire Marketing mix and includes aspects from pricing right upto the look of the vehicles and they do seem to have got the overall package wrong.

[raul]

I think most folks like Tata Motors, RNT as he is fondly known is hugely respected, as are Tata companies in general.

But what started with a bang and promise of continuous improvement has tapered into a whimper. Most folks were willing to give both Tata Motors and Mahindra a long rope and wait for them to deliver but customer expectations have dramatically increased in recent years and the market becomes more competitive and Tata has simply not kept up.

Remember the excitement for the Prima? That was a hugely promising product that was killed, yet in the current context given how long it takes to develop a product that is exactly the kind of car that wold have give Tata a boost.

The Safari - what a fantastically timed vehicle - for its time. Another missed opportunity of a vehicle that has simply not kept up. And there is no excuse here, they have resources, talent so why the lethargy. Multiple versions of Safari, a platform, smaller crossovers, better built more stable modern Safari?? These are the kind of things that deliver success, not facelifts of tired models.

The Aria - another botched opportunity which falls on the feet solely of management and marketing. Misreading the market and getting carried away with 'brand'. What the point of a brand if it can't sell the car, a brand and exclusivity are not ends in themselves , they are a function of the product, not an afterthought. VW is satisfied selling 10 Yeti's a month, but that kind of demand cannot sustain new platforms and development if India is your first market, and this has to be a failure of pricing. These are not luxury cars but volume models, VW can afford to muck around, let's leave the brand game to the luxury and super luxury segments and price for the markets segments in which we operate. A good product will create its own brand.

Nokia ceased to excite the marketplace, its the same with Tata, they need a huge dose of innovation and new thinking, models and excitement in what is coming.

[powertrain]

Tata Motors have regained the No.3 position from M&M !!

See Economic Times report - Tata Motors regain third position from Mahindra & Mahindra in passenger vehicle sales - The Economic Times

Regards
Varun

[arvindmanju]

I see this as a temp phenomena, M&M are in a better position to take on the place compared to TATA. With the launch of face lift Vento, expected sub 4mtr xylo & Vento they can clock more numbers.
On the other side TATA has new look Safari for this year. Their existing products need innovation, better A.S.S etc for them to keep the position.