[wordsworth]

Jazz sales continue to amaze me. The Honda Fit, its twin in the US continues to be loved even in thr face of stiffer competition from fiesta hatchback and the others. While the i20 continues its magic run, the more able Jazz languishes. IMHO the lack of diesel is not the only reason for the low sales numbers. Assuming a 80:20 ratio, an average of 1500 petrol i20 may be sold every month which is three times that of the Jazz. Even the brio petrol fails in front of the older i10. Hyundai clearly is doing something right to attract buyers is this segment. Honda needs to wake up!!!
The above is just my opinion with no offence to the i series buyers.

[robindsouza82]

Originally Posted by achyutaghosh

Excellent analysis, as always GTO- thank you for sending this post out on the first day of the month!

Having been using the ANHC for the past two years, and impressed by its performance and reliability, I am surprised by Honda’s performance. But perhaps its the sign of the times that diesel is the default choice of customers. However, i think there is a deeper problem at Honda in India and their dealers in particular- I don’t think they have it in their mind to sell lower specced models or cheaper cars (Brio, Jazz) in general. Case in point, couple of months back two of my friends with a 4-4.5 lakh budget were looking for entry level hatchbacks, and i had managed to convert them from the i10/WagonRs to the Brio. They took test drives, loved the car, but then went to book the Brio E-MT, almost all dealers in NCR unanimously said that they are not taking booking for that model and even if they do it would be a 3 month delivery period. A 3 month delivery period for a petrol car today- kind of crazy

They offered ready delivery of the S and V models though which cost in excess of 5 lakhs on road. I don’t know whether this is a management level move to increase revenues per car or just a dealer move, but this one single act bumps the Brio from an affordable i10 competing hatch to the big boys category dominated by better, larger cars (Swift, i20 etc)

You know what my friends did? They quietly went back and booked i10s and saved over 1 lakh, a decisive amount for a first time buyer.

I faced the same problem. My friend was keen on buying a petrol hatch and he had zeroed in on the Swift, i20 and the Jazz. The final selection was to be a decision between the Jazz and the i20. When we went to the Honda showroom, they did not have a car for test drive. But then they suggested that they will drive down to my friends office with a car for test drive the next day.

What surprise me was that they mentioned that they only have a few colors in stock and if our chosen color is not in stock, it will take 3 months for delivery. In these times where petrol cars are out of favor, 3 month wait is just not acceptable. There are not promoting the jazz in any means. This car is absent in all the print advertisements as well.

[aditya101]

Originally Posted by wordsworth

Jazz sales continue to amaze me. The Honda Fit, its twin in the US continues to be loved even in thr face of stiffer competition from fiesta hatchback and the others. While the i20 continues its magic run, the more able Jazz languishes. IMHO the lack of diesel is not the only reason for the low sales numbers. Assuming a 80:20 ratio, an average of 1500 petrol i20 may be sold every month which is three times that of the Jazz. Even the brio petrol fails in front of the older i10. Hyundai clearly is doing something right to attract buyers is this segment. Honda needs to wake up!!!
The above is just my opinion with no offence to the i series buyers.

I recently enquired in detail with Honda for the Jazz. i20 is a preferred buy for most including selft due to the lower price point + higher end features.

Jazz's main USP of being a outdoor/active/lifestyle vehicle probably doesn't click with most people.

Lastly, the car has an image of being a market dud which puts off many consumers.

[mayuresh]

http://moneylife.in/article/ratan-ta...nge/27724.html

Rarely one sees such a direct and candid response in AGMs. I think Mr Tata did the right thing.

(Not sure whether this is being discussed on any other thread. Mods, please merge if this doesn't belong here.)

[.anshuman]

Originally Posted by wordsworth

Jazz sales continue to amaze me. The Honda Fit, its twin in the US continues to be loved even in thr face of stiffer competition from fiesta hatchback and the others. While the i20 continues its magic run, the more able Jazz languishes. IMHO the lack of diesel is not the only reason for the low sales numbers. Assuming a 80:20 ratio, an average of 1500 petrol i20 may be sold every month which is three times that of the Jazz. Even the brio petrol fails in front of the older i10. Hyundai clearly is doing something right to attract buyers is this segment. Honda needs to wake up!!!
The above is just my opinion with no offence to the i series buyers.

I read somewhere, Jazz is not showing good numbers because Honda is deliberately limiting the supply, most probably because their margins on Jazz are much lower than Brio and City.

[ACM]

The market and industry sentiment is well reflected in the sales for July. The entry level and first time buyer is delaying his decision. The higher end buyer continues to indulge but unless the market sentiment improves the higher and mid segments too will soon be affected.

Tata, Hyundai and Mahindra are poised to make the most of Maruti Plant issues.

[wordsworth]

Originally Posted by .anshuman

I read somewhere, Jazz is not showing good numbers because Honda is deliberately limiting the supply, most probably because their margins on Jazz are much lower than Brio and City.

I am on the verge of booking the jazz x. Love the car for its idea.

.ansuman do you think it is a good and practical decision given the lack of interest of Honda. Will be keeping the jazz for two years or so for a compact SUV when the market of this segment settles down. Would be great to hear your views on this.

[StarrySky]

Originally Posted by wordsworth

.ansuman do you think it is a good and practical decision given the lack of interest of Honda. Will be keeping the jazz for two years or so for a compact SUV when the market of this segment settles down. Would be great to hear your views on this.

You will take a big hit in resale value with Jazz being a market dud. So if you are planning to keep it for only 2 years, I suggest you buy something else. In fact, if you are sure you will keep the car for only 2 years, and you like Jazz, why not buy a used Jazz?

[FuelInjector]

Excellent analysis and comments by all. Was speaking to my Honda dealer manager on these figures. While its bothersome to the Honda mgt. he said they are working on a Diesel CRV. The engine is in testing phase and should be a 2013 launch.
Somehow I have always been a true fan of Honda. Whatever said and done, they have indeed got a brilliant driving position.

Also heard about discontinuing the civic model, they are planning to provide discounts on the stock backlog.

[wordsworth]

Originally Posted by StarrySky

You will take a big hit in resale value with Jazz being a market dud. So if you are planning to keep it for only 2 years, I suggest you buy something else. In fact, if you are sure you will keep the car for only 2 years, and you like Jazz, why not buy a used Jazz?

Will the jazz resale be that bad? What other options do I have then. I will have t look at the sedan segment then.

[narayan]

Originally Posted by wordsworth

Will the jazz resale be that bad? What other options do I have then. I will have t look at the sedan segment then.

WW - the Jazz is a really good car and if you like it just go for it. Of course you should bear in mind that ANY car depreciates the most in the initial years and hence the loss in value would obviously be highest in the 1st 2 years. On top of it, Petrol cars are not really the flavour of the market. Hence these factors alone will ensure you have a reasonable hit but thats not specific to the Jazz.

I somehow feel that in about 2 years, the fuel policy would become more rational and diesel prices might also go up resulting in a more equitable treatment of petrol and diesel cars in the used car market than it has been in the last 1 yr.

If you can/ok for a used Jazz, go for it as some one suggested. Else just go for the new one - amazing car !

[.anshuman]

Originally Posted by wordsworth

I am on the verge of booking the jazz x. Love the car for its idea.

.anshuman do you think it is a good and practical decision given the lack of interest of Honda. Will be keeping the jazz for two years or so for a compact SUV when the market of this segment settles down. Would be great to hear your views on this.

Honda Jazz is one of the nicest Petrol premium hatchbacks i know of. It's not a car really focused on the enthusiast, Brio beats it for Fun to drive but for everything else Jazz is better. There is no match in segment for Interior Design and flexibility, everytime i sit in this car i feel so good because of the interiors.

Even if Honda is not much interested in pushing this car but they surely will support it with after sales, even at the time of resale this car will find many takers.

Now let's get back to the topic, and if you want to continue this discussion please post in the Jazz review thread.

[Musicmaker23]

Brilliant analysis once again GTO!

Looks like the i20 revamp is doing wonders for Hyundai. Almost 8k units speaks volumes (excuse the pun). A lot of members on the thread have asked what makes the i20's 'apparently expensive' package seem so tempting. I think its got a lot to do with how Hyundai's responded to each new competitor in the segment by upping the ante. Right now, the i20's got more frilly tech than a lot of D segment sedans. Perception is also important & the fact that it was viewed as the premier premium hatchback in the country after the Swift also helped. If only Honda would've priced the Jazz competitively earlier, we could've had a nice 3-way going.

I'm a little surprised to see the Verna sweep the C-segment. The Honda City can't put up a fight due to lack of a diesel option, which is suicidal in these times. I thought the Vento would give the Verna a lot of trouble. Surprising how such a well-rounded sedan isn't doing any better. Even the Sunny has managed to do better than Vento and Rapid. Nissan's got a steady seller on their hands here.

I don't see the Eon managing to dethrone the Alto. Hyundai's put together a good car (sans a decent gear lever), but you just can't expect to break the trust & reliability of the Marutis as easily.

On another note, next month will be interesting in the D segment to gauge the response to the Elantra.

Some duds that need to be discontinued pronto are:

• Chevrolet Aveo & Aveo-UVA
• Fiesta New! (Because Ford's successfully managed to turn the car into a complete market failure, in a segment where they needed desperately to respond to competition. The Classic Fiesta diesel is still one of my favorite cars)

[apachelongbow]

The skewed fuel pricing policy will remain as is for at least the next year, if not until 2014. Reason being, Poor monsoon, economy in recession, weak central government and allies against raising diesel prices. So any manufacturer who doesn't have a diesel lineup will suffer loss of sales. Nothing surprising to see Honda doing poorly.
If Honda wants to survive until the next election, it has to provide a diesel option for each car in its lineup. Doing research until next year on a diesel CRV will not cut it. Already better options are available in the market in its price range. Now the diesel engines Honda introduces also need to be in tune with its legendary smooth petrol engines. A shoddy diesel engine lineup will simply turn consumers against Honda. A real catch 22 situation for Honda. Hope they develop a good diesel line up soon.

[vasoo]

This chart shows the level of "Dieselization" that has happened in the Indian auto industry. I20 selling more than i10, Honda as a whole and City in particular struggling to meet 4 digits, Tata coming back in reckoning with all their "diesel, kmpl" ads, XUV 5OO becoming a major threat to any vehicle above 10L price range, sale of utility vehicles matching up with B2 segment, fall of the small hatches... too many pointers. I think soon the petrol sale will be limited to 2 wheelers.