[sarthakgupta]

Originally Posted by StarScream

Do tell, what was the deal? I called Prime Honda on a lark this morning in gzb and to my surprise I was told there is no discount only a multimedia caska entertainment system and 1-year insurance free on the car. They said they have none in stock and would get them against orders from Honda.

Just returning home after booking my Honda City CE. Civic is currently carrying straight discount of Rs 75,000 and Automatic is off by more than 1 Lakh. Infact, dealer was ready to negotiate more if one is giving a confirmed booking.

He said that if I have a customer, he is ready to go to his home/convenient place to discuss the deal.

However as such he absolutely denied any information regarding discontinuation of civic.

[scopriobharath]

I am asking the same question i asked in another thread.

Is it so difficult for Honda to make a diesel engine for Engine for india?

I mean if Toyota, Mitsubishi, Suzuki et all can build one, Why not Honda. If there is no sufficient experience for Honda, it can always recruit someone. Civic diesel would have been a good competitor for Altis & Elantra.

Another guess is that Honda was waiting for diesel subsidy to be removed and the masses to tilt towards petrol cars again.

[vb-saan]

Originally Posted by scopriobharath

Is it so difficult for Honda to make a diesel engine for Engine for india?

Honda does have diesel engines in their European Civic. But overall the feedback on the new Civic is pretty poor internationally, and that could be the reason for them to skip it altogether (for India).

[tanwaramit]

Originally Posted by vb-san

Honda does have diesel engines in their European Civic. But overall the feedback on the new Civic is pretty poor internationally, and that could be the reason for them to skip it altogether (for India).

Hondas diesel engine in Civic is made for European markets, to run on almost nil sulphur content.

It cant stand diesel from India. Honda will have to develop an all new diesel engine for India, but is there such a return from India on such a high investment ? Thats what is keeping them busy.

They should better source readymade engines from GM, Fiat or any other provider to get going.

[sam003]

So when can we expect 40-50% off on civic Auto I will surely grab one at that price. Feeling really sad for Honda though, my personal favourate.

[athalaga]

Originally Posted by tanwaramit

Hondas diesel engine in Civic is made for European markets, to run on almost nil sulphur content.

It cant stand diesel from India. Honda will have to develop an all new diesel engine for India, but is there such a return from India on such a high investment ? Thats what is keeping them busy.

They should better source readymade engines from GM, Fiat or any other provider to get going.

They have a DOC+DPF for Europe EURO V which has 10 ppm sulfur fuel. In India 13 cities have 50 ppm sulfur ( which is compatible with a DOC + DPF ), however since India is still on BS IV which does not require a DPF, Honda can remove their DPF, small calibration change and launch in India.

[ashis89]

Originally Posted by athalaga

They have a DOC+DPF for Europe EURO V which has 10 ppm sulfur fuel. In India 13 cities have 50 ppm sulfur ( which is compatible with a DOC + DPF ), however since India is still on BS IV which does not require a DPF, Honda can remove their DPF, small calibration change and launch in India.

+1.

Exactly what Honda should do now.

Or atleast it can source the diesel engine from the other producers(la. Fiat, Ford,etc) and fit them to their cars to stay in market till their own engines are ready for deployment.

IMO, Honda is neglecting a market where it had a great fan following, it still does. May be one day it will go the Mitsubishi way, another once respected car-maker.

[StarScream]

Originally Posted by ashis89

Or atleast it can source the diesel engine from the other producers(la. Fiat, Ford,etc) and fit them to their cars to stay in market till their own engines are ready for deployment.

We may associate Honda with cars but what it really is (and takes pride in) is making engines. Being an engine company, they will never source an engine from another company. The products (gensets, outboard motors, lawnmowers, cars, aircraft) that the engines go into are incidental to the engine itself -
Honda Bets Scientists in Secret Engine Lab Can Outsmart Toyota - Bloomberg

Also, Ace Honda in Noida says there is a cash discount of Rs. 1 lakh on the Civic across all models.

[JRD]

Originally Posted by amtak

If GM can buy engines from ICML, Force can do it from Daimler, Premier, TATA, MSIL can do it from Fiat why can't Honda buy engines from some Indian service provider. I am referring to Fiat here; they are more of an engine supplier than a car maker now!

In any case, Honda cars are over-priced by a lakh or so, CIVIC diesel should be no surprise!

Honda already has diesel engines in most of their european models. So to source an engine locally only for asian markets and make it compatible with the internals would not make very good business sense and the end result would not be upto standards.

It is better if they spend the time and effort to make the existing ctdi engines compatible with indian requirements. Ive driven a ctdi civic in italy and it is quite a remarkable engine.

[devsoftech]

I strongly believe CIVIC being pulled out is a temporary affair. Elantra and Altis will age out eventually and Honda may want to strike the right chord (wait and watch). Honda enthusiasts will not appreciate a car emitting black smoke with DPF removed. Honda will not launch a detuned and non performant engine tarnish their image of being clean, lean and mean.

[scopriobharath]

Originally Posted by JRD

Honda already has diesel engines in most of their european models. So to source an engine locally only for asian markets and make it compatible with the internals would not make very good business sense and the end result would not be upto standards.

It is better if they spend the time and effort to make the existing ctdi engines compatible with indian requirements. Ive driven a ctdi civic in italy and it is quite a remarkable engine.

I think differently. If Honda's competitors like Suzuki, Toyota and Mitsubishi can do it, why no Honda. Heck even Isuzu has a diesel, even though isuzu is not as big as Honda. There is something wrong, where only an insider can provide concrete info.

[suhaas307]

Originally Posted by scopriobharath

I think differently. If Honda's competitors like Suzuki, Toyota and Mitsubishi can do it, why no Honda. Heck even Isuzu has a diesel, even though isuzu is not as big as Honda. There is something wrong, where only an insider can provide concrete info.

Jaguar for instance has been around since 1922, and they started producing diesel cars only after they were acquired by Ford, after the '90s. The diesel motor in the X-Type was also found in the Mondeo at that time.

While it may be a good move if Honda brings in diesel engines, it remains to be seen how long diesel engines will be promoted before they're removed from the scene altogether. I'd give it 20 years tops.

The flavour of the moment is greater efficiency and low emissions. It's a sentiment that's being echoed all over the World. Diesel engines are NOT the future.

[ajay_satpute]

Well said suhaas307!

The flavor of the moment is indeed alternative fuel. Unfortunately, this is not taking off in India that keenly. I have been watching and reading about BMW's i concepts since last 3-4 years (IIRC). Here's their schedule of launches of cars based on alternative fuel technology:

1. BMW i3 due in 2013
2. BMW i8 due in 2014
3. BMW i8 Spyder due in 2014
4. BMW i5 due in 2016
5. BMW i1 due in 2016

Honda, rather than investing in R&D on how to make a diesel engine compatible with the Indian conditions, should invest more on the alternative fuel technology. I am sure they must be doing it already, but its not as conspicuous as BMW's.

[sarthakgupta]

Originally Posted by suhaas307

it remains to be seen how long diesel engines will be promoted before they're removed from the scene altogether. I'd give it 20 years tops.

The flavour of the moment is greater efficiency and low emissions. It's a sentiment that's being echoed all over the World. Diesel engines are NOT the future.

Very true. With the Euro5 implemented and Euro6 emission norms coming up, the cost of developing diesels which can meet these emission norms has spiralled up. This we can see from the fact that even the well respected Toyota is going to source its future diesels from BMW (for cars) and Peogeot (for Vans and maybe SUVs).

Toyota has discontinued Hiace diesel in Europe because it couldn't develop a cost effective Euro 5 diesel for this Van.

I remember reading somewhere that even VW says that future diesels will make sense only in those nations where diesel is significantly cheaper than petrol.

[StarScream]

Originally Posted by ajay_satpute

Honda, rather than investing in R&D on how to make a diesel engine compatible with the Indian conditions, should invest more on the alternative fuel technology. I am sure they must be doing it already, but its not as conspicuous as BMW's.

Actually, Honda's FCX Clarity hydrogen car is more conspicuous and real than the BMW concepts (and is on the road in California). It's just really expensive to make as a mass product at the moment.
Honda FCX Clarity Overview - Fuel Cell Electric Vehicle - Site