[anachronix]

A Punto 90HP is remotely close to being an enthusiast's choice!?

A steering is as important as the dynamics of the car, thats what connects a true enthusiast and his machine. May be wannabes dont care and care more about appeal and aesthetics! But a good steering feedback is a MUST for any car to be an enthusiasts car IMO!

Look at this thread, a lot more underpowered Figo could beat the Swift on the racetrack. A beautiful case of dynamics beating its powerful competitor. Steering feel & dynamics is a must, everything else is a bonus!

http://www.team-bhp.com/forum/indian...-who-wins.html

Originally Posted by suhaas307

How does one describe an enthusiast's car?

- Great engine
- Sorted dynamics
- A steering with good feel
- Positive gearbox
- Excellent driving-position
- Appeal

Now there is no one car in the 10 lakh bracket that ticks all these boxes with the exception of the Ford Fiesta 1.6S.

The other cars that could be remotely considered as an 'enthusiasts' car is the Punto MJD (90+), the Swift and I would argue that the Polo 1.6 is too.

Like I'd mentioned before, it isn't unbelievably powerful. Nor does the steering have 'feel' (it's still better than other cars in that price-bracket). But it does tick every other box. In the same way the Punto and Swift do. One has a better steering, while the other has a better gearbox. (Punto and Polo)

EDIT: When I'm referring to the Polo here, I also mean the Fabia (it's pretty much the same car)

[v.anand]

Unless VW plans to get the 1.2 TSI, bad move by stopping this model.

Its internationally discontinued, agreed. But its the same 1.2 with additional cylinder which continues to sell everywhere. So, not so bad afterall.

It may not be as much fun as Palio 1.6 (which I owned earlier) but returns amazing FE as compared to other 1.6, past and present. It returns as much as 1.2 petrol and is more fun than all 1.2 and 1.4 hatches available in the market today. Infact, only the 1.5 IVTEC betters it this side of 12 lacs among petrols. Its certainly not a dull engine, I don't agree with that.

If Vento and Rapid continues to sell 1.6 TPI, no reason for VW to pull the plug on the better car.

[sandeepmohan]

Though I have never driven this car, I have only heard that it was nowhere in the class of the old Fiat Palio 1.6 Gtx (No Stile here). Now that was a gem of a car in every way. I believe Fiat had their car on sale longer and it was probably their laziness that one could still buy a Stile late into 2008. So the market has not matured to accept a true petrol heads car. I guess we can write off the Fiat Linea T Jet too. It should be safe to say that we are not going to get another budget hot hatch ever. I doubt even if a Swift 1.6 can pull it off. Sad.

[mayankjha1806]

Originally Posted by sarthakgupta

Perhaps its time for consolidation in Indian Car Scene. After the demise of Civic and possibly of Hyundai Accent, now the Polo 1.6 Petrol is the one that has been axed.

When did Civic died? Is Honda discontinuing Civic? I have been away from team bhp for a few days, tried searching and did not find any news. Or are you hinting towards its low sales and eventually Honda will pull the plug?

[volkman10]

Originally Posted by mayankjha1806

Or are you hinting towards its low sales and eventually Honda will pull the plug?

Here is the link on Civic.
http://www.team-bhp.com/forum/indian...off-india.html

[Santoshbhat]

Originally Posted by v.anand

Unless VW plans to get the 1.2 TSI, bad move by stopping this model.

Its internationally discontinued, agreed. But its the same 1.2 with additional cylinder which continues to sell everywhere. So, not so bad afterall.

It may not be as much fun as Palio 1.6 (which I owned earlier) but returns amazing FE as compared to other 1.6, past and present. It returns as much as 1.2 petrol and is more fun than all 1.2 and 1.4 hatches available in the market today. Infact, only the 1.5 IVTEC betters it this side of 12 lacs among petrols. Its certainly not a dull engine, I don't agree with that.

If Vento and Rapid continues to sell 1.6 TPI, no reason for VW to pull the plug on the better car.

The 1.2 is nothing to write home about. Look at the competition's offerrings : The K10 from Maruti or the 1.2 VTVT from Hyundai or the 1.2 iVtec from Honda. VW seriously needs to bring in better petrol engines. In fact the first thing that comes to my mind when I think about the Polo is "Good car , average engines".

The 1.6 Mpi from VW is certainly more fuel efficient when you compare it to some of the 1.6 engines petrol earlier seen in Ford, Fiat, Maruti and GM cars. But remember most of these 1.6 engined cars are extinct as all those wanting more power are going the diesel way. If petrol engines have to make a comeback, they need something special like the TSIs.

[v.anand]

^^Definitely @Santoshbhat, hence I said unless they get the 1.2 TSI. 1.4 TSI is not likely to see itself under Indian Polo hood considering the conservative approach of VW.

However name me one car under Rs. 8 lakhs space that is more fun than Polo 1.6 (assuming you have driven all available). Not Jazz, Swift, Micra, Figo, even Punto comes close to the overall package of Polo 1.6. The point is this engine is not a dud, considering the the competition. Its got a fine balance between efficiency and power. Refinement could have been slightly better and thats where the age shows. Among mid hatches, other than Punto 90HP steering, Polo 1.6 is a better overall package than all whereas same can't be said of Polo 1.2 Highline.

If no TSI plans, its blunder on part of VW, considering its not just another rumour.

[ethanhunt123]

I dont understand why everyone thinks this move is a blunder. Petrol cars hardly sell nowadays in India despite heavy discounts, leave alone a 1.6 engined Polo.

Instead of trying to bring in a TSi for Polo/Vento etc, VW should better spend its energies is getting a proper 4-cylinder diesel motor for Polo. If 1.6 TDi would shoot up the price too much, maybe a 1.4 TDi ?

[vikramv007]

Latest update is both the Vento and Polo are receiving minor facelifts and a price revision next month. Its likely only two variants of the Vento Diesel will continue and safely expect both to have all the safety equipment and much more comfort creatures than the current car. The plant i guess has already started producing the facelifted version

[nik_kapur]

Originally Posted by vikramv007

Latest update is both the Vento and Polo are receiving minor facelifts and a price revision next month. Its likely only two variants of the Vento Diesel will continue and safely expect both to have all the safety equipment and much more comfort creatures than the current car. The plant i guess has already started producing the facelifted version

Hmm.. What could we want in a Vento Highline?

Bluetooth for Phone Connectivity
More Airbags
Touchscreen ICE ??

Automatic in Diesel

[raj_5004]

Polo will come with an A/T, most probably with the 1.6 engine. Since they already have that setup in the Vento.

[mempheS.D]

Originally Posted by ethanhunt123

I dont understand why everyone thinks this move is a blunder. Petrol cars hardly sell nowadays in India despite heavy discounts, leave alone a 1.6 engined Polo.

Instead of trying to bring in a TSi for Polo/Vento etc, VW should better spend its energies is getting a proper 4-cylinder diesel motor for Polo. If 1.6 TDi would shoot up the price too much, maybe a 1.4 TDi ?

I can't disagree with what you say, BUT doing that would only please one section of the automotive fans (ie. diesel, which is probably growing in number by the day).

There's another passionate group too who do NOT like the clatter-clatter? This move by VW and other players in the Indian automotive scene is quite disappointing for the budget-conscious who belong to this group.

[Santoshbhat]

Originally Posted by v.anand

However name me one car under Rs. 8 lakhs space that is more fun than Polo 1.6 (assuming you have driven all available).

That's the sad part. If someone is looking for a FTD hatch, they really have no options. There certainly is a market for a FTD hatch, but no car maker wants to make a wholehearted attempt at making one. The duty structure in our country is another big setback for enthusiasts. Seems like driving a hatch with an engine bigger than 1.2l is the ultimate symbol of luxury in our country

[ethanhunt123]

Originally Posted by mempheS.D

I can't disagree with what you say, BUT doing that would only please one section of the automotive fans (ie. diesel, which is probably growing in number by the day).

There's another passionate group too who do NOT like the clatter-clatter? This move by VW and other players in the Indian automotive scene is quite disappointing for the budget-conscious who belong to this group.

The group is too small and growing even smaller. Unless some sort of a duty is levied on diesel cars (dont think diesel is ever going to be de-regulated like petrol), i doubt any car manufacturer is going to focus on petrol cars anymore in India.

Originally Posted by Santoshbhat

That's the sad part. If someone is looking for a FTD hatch, they really have no options. There certainly is a market for a FTD hatch, but no car maker wants to make a wholehearted attempt at making one. The duty structure in our country is another big setback for enthusiasts. Seems like driving a hatch with an engine bigger than 1.2l is the ultimate symbol of luxury in our country

I disagree. There is hardly any market for FTD hatches in India. For all the street cred of Palio 1.6 - it hardly sold. Same story with Chevy SRV. And that was when Petrol & diesel were closely priced. In today's market of petrol costing almost double the diesel - no way a fuel sipping Petrol car can sell.

BTW leave along hatch - even BMW brought only 50 kits of 328i :-) Even people buying a 30L car want to buy a diesel !

[Santoshbhat]

Originally Posted by ethanhunt123

I disagree. There is hardly any market for FTD hatches in India. For all the street cred of Palio 1.6 - it hardly sold. Same story with Chevy SRV. And that was when Petrol & diesel were closely priced. In today's market of petrol costing almost double the diesel - no way a fuel sipping Petrol car can sell.

BTW leave along hatch - even BMW brought only 50 kits of 328i :-) Even people buying a 30L car want to buy a diesel !

So bring in a FTD diesel hatch! Give us a 1.6 MJD Punto/ Swift or 1.6 Tdi Polo and I 'm sure they'll sell. With over crowded cities and lack of parking spaces, I am sure the self driven urban male will lap up a hot hatch even if he can get a 'boring' sedan for the same price. I see a trend in cities like Bangalore where people have two cars at home. An SUV + hatch or a Sedan + hatch. The big car does outstation duty , while the small car does city duty.

THe hot hatch will never see volumes like the 1.2s, and it would be foolish for anybody to expect that. But it can do wonders to the brand on the whole. Look what the Swift did to Maruti for example. I still remember how ACI first described it : "A Maruti that's fun to drive"