Re: Why don't manufacturers bring manual transmission in their premium models? Quote:
Originally Posted by karan561 Also if a person buys an M/T car only then he is considered as an enthusiast is also i disagree, for an example ;
If a person buys the latest Nissan GTR ( which is only available in A/T ) does he become a non enthusiast ? Or less enthusiastic about driving ? Im afraid not |
Buying a GTR certainly indicates that you have an enthusiasm for fast cars. But it doesn't tell us much of how much you are an enthusiast of good driving. THe fact is, most lamborghinis, porsches and ferraris (and BMW for that matter) customers are not driving enthusiasts. These cars are also representations of wealth, style, prestige, and they create a sense of occasion and drama that make them very desirable. But if you take a look at ferrari and lamborghini for sale ads, you find few of them are ever driven much. It is not uncommon to find a 20 year old ferrari with 15,000km on it, and $30,000 in service bills showing timing belt changes, brake replacesments, etc. These are not cars owned by enthusiasts, even if they have manual transmissions.
In another thread (F30 drive review), I got into a similar discussion where I posted this comment: Quote:
Enthusiasm for anything makes you an enthusiast. IF you feel enthusiastic about the cars that are offered in India, you are an enthusiast of those cars.
THat however does not change the fact that there is little experience, understanding, appreciation, or HUNGER for the characteristics and compromises that make cars fun, exciting, thrilling to drive, that cause people to develop an appreciation for fine driving technique, that reward fine technique, cars that reveal an unusual level of brilliance but only to those who have got the technique to explore a car's capabilities and therefore understand them and use them well.
Now anybody who gets excited about a car and likes to own or go for a drive in it can be said to be enthusiastic and therefore an enthusiast, but that does not make him the sort of enthusiast that I am talking about.
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Enthusiasts of this sort almost universally prefer 3 pedal manual transmissions. Allow me to quote some excerpts from test drives of the cars equipped with automated manuals (DCT/DSG/PDK type) by the big american enthusiast magazine Car and Driver: Quote:
1. Re 135i DCT: "We generally prefer the driver involvement of traditional manual transmissions, especially when they’re as good as the ones offered on most BMW models. In the case of the 135i, the fitment of the DCT might close the preference gap for some"
2. Re M3 DCT. "we think it’s far easier and more satisfying to exploit the M3’s excellent dynamics with a traditional manual, which was not necessarily what we expected."
3. R8 5.2: Its not like we’re going to kick the R tronic out of bed for eating weiss*wurst. No matter which transmission is fitted to the car, the result is brilliant. We just prefer the gated manual for its tactile connection to the powertrain."
4. R8 5.2 "Our enthusiasm for the V-10 was probably helped along by the old-fashioned, honest-to-God manual transmission of our test car, a refreshing change from the computer-controlled, automated manual transmission that has become nearly omnipresent in this class of car. Guiding the shifter through the six-speed’s gates and using a clutch pedal provides direct, human control over the gearbox, making for a closer relationship with the V-10 than would paddle shifters alone. Exploiting the 525 horsepower and 391 pound-feet of torque is that much more satisfying without a layer of computer interference. "
5. Gallardo Balboni: "A Balboni is definitely more intense and, with the gated six-speed manual to manhandle, more fun than the regular Gallardo."
6. 911 GT2 RS: "Compared with Porsche’s other leading turbocharged rocket, the 530-hp, all-wheel-drive 911 Turbo S—which is fitted with a seven-speed PDK dual-clutch automatic—the GT2 RS’s six-speed manual gearbox and rear-drive layout invite a significantly higher level of driver involvement." |
If in the case of a GTR or a EVO X MR or a Ferrari 458, you only have a DCT, certainly an enthusiast can put it to work and enjoy it. But is it his preference? Usually not. Something very significant is lost, which the truest enthusiast laments and is not happy to lose.
Allow me to quote a post I made on another forum about my dislike for DSGs. Quote:
I've been critical of DCT from my limited experiences in DCT equipped cars, but I have always had in the back of mind the nagging thought that perhaps one needs a longer experience with them than I have had to switch off the part of your mind that is used to pulling and pushing on a lever, and adjust your mental processes to the DCT before you can appreciate its brilliance.
Now I have had that chance. My dad's A6 3.0T has a 7 speed DSG transmission. I have now driven the car extensively over many months and the verdict is in. DSG sucks. Its just an automatic. And no amount of snappy on-command shifts from electrical switches produces the control, feedback, and authority over the machine, and a close coupling of the driver with it.
There is simply no intuitive feedback from, and no intuitive control of, the driveline. And since gear selection affects car behavior in cornering so hugely, the loss of intimacy and interaction with the driveline negatively impacts the totality of the car's experience as an enthusiasts' driving tool.
An example from the last drive i had in the audi. There I am, barrelling at a superb second gear corner after a full throttle rush up to 150km/h. I am hard on the brakes, setting up the line. But i don't know what gear I'm in. is it 4? 5? 6? I don't know. I don't know how many times I need to flick the paddle to get to 2nd. I take a guess. I flick the paddle thrice. I trail off the brakes, and back on the throttle. I guessed wrong. I haven't down shifted enough. I'm in 3rd, I need to use more throttle, but its not enough. I'm just in the wrong gear. I stay in the throttle, rocket through the traffic signal at the empty intersection and another left hander comes up. How many upshifts were there since the last corner? 2? 3? I don't remember. how many times do I flick the paddle? I don't know.I can't tell by feel. What gear am I going to get from my guesses? I don't know. I slow down the shifts, flicking the paddle one at a time to feel for the right gear. I've found it. but now I've lost too speed trying to figure out the right gear, and I've lost my flow through the curve.
Am I having fun? No. I don't know what the hell is going on with the car. most of the time I am just guessing and second guessing driving this thing. About the only way I can get a decent drive is to put the thing in sport mode, let if shift for itself, see what effect that had, THEN follow it up with more shifts as I need or want. Which is the best the car can do, but its still a herky jerky, two step process.
I find the manual gear selection in the car a guessing game all the time. I find it inadequately competent shifting for itself. I feel DCT (in every car I have driven) disconnects me from the machine for no compensating benefit.
For me, a DCT is just a dumb automatic
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Anybody is an enthusiast if they feel enthusiastic about something. But sophisticated in the craft of fine driving with an expectation of purity and competence from their machines? Those are vanishingly rare in India.
Last edited by Harbir : 28th September 2012 at 16:02.
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