Flop cars in our market

vinu99@gmail.co · 5th May 2006, 13:56

I won't consider Pailo as a flop. But the Pathetic Fiat guys made it look like a flop. Eventhough I love the 1.6, I would never buy one in India!

sbasak · 5th May 2006, 15:06

Beauty lies in the eyes of beholder

Mr X's flop is Mr Y's hit!
Cars like Palio, Matiz can never be called flop.
On the other hand, cars like Standard 2000, Badal are definitely flop.

GTO · 29th January 2007, 19:12

Does anyone remember the Quantum? I dont know how it will be in todays context, but boy...when I heard it at the RGs launch party a decade back....I was floored!

Apparently the british company still exists today, and this is the car that they invited books for in India : Link.

I doubt they sold a single piece.

iraghava · 29th January 2007, 19:23

Quote:

Originally Posted by GTO

Does anyone remember the Quantum? I dont know how it will be in todays context, but boy...when I heard it at the RGs launch party a decade back....I was floored!

Apparently the british company still exists today, and this is the car that they invited books for in India : Link.

I doubt they sold a single piece.

Oh Man I remember this one it was a LONG time back & was touted as the first proper Sports car to be sold in India!! IIRC Auto India, Car & Bike etc. carried pics & articles on this with expected pricing & everything! But I don't think they sold any since I've never seen any around the North.

P.S. Also just remembered & confirmed on the site that this car has GRP bodywork!

V-16 · 29th January 2007, 20:25

Quote:

Originally Posted by iraghava

Oh Man I remember this one it was a LONG time back & was touted as the first proper Sports car to be sold in India!! IIRC Auto India, Car & Bike etc. carried pics & articles on this with expected pricing & everything! But I don't think they sold any since I've never seen any around the North.

P.S. Also just remembered & confirmed on the site that this car has GRP bodywork!

I test drove the Quantum as the supposed to be authorised dealer was a friends friend. I drove it from Chembur (where Ratan Motors is now and was previosly Bawa Motors) to vashi and back. The car had so much pep and go it waws astounding but handling was another thing. The Promotor was with me in the car on my test drive and had his manhood in his mouth till he realised I was handling the car in a dignified manner(self praise). The car was offered as a hard top as well as a convertible and had a fantastic roar (any other sound other that a Maruti in those days was a roar). It was positioned as Indis'a first sports car and was quite expensive.. i dont exactly remember what the amount was. They wanted 90,000/- as the booking amount tough and I almost convinced my dad to get one for me but his maturity and experience took over my chilish enthusiasm and he promised to get me one if it was launche....and it did not get launched. There was some scam involved in the India launch as the promotors absconded with the booking amount they recieved.

This one had a Ford Engine 1.8 DOHC and a ford Dash with a Ford Streering wheel (what we see on the Ikon today) and fibre glass body panels In fact they even today use Ford components. It was and is a Kit car which is still available in the U.K.
I asked about the chassis and the guy didnt know what was a monocoque.
It would have been good but i doubt whether they had any intention of selling here. RIP.

diwa · 29th January 2007, 21:46

I am surprised

. None of you have mentioned Maruti Esteem Diesel & Zen Diesel in the list.

Also add,

Mahindra Scorpio petrol.
BMW 5 lac bike.

CrAzY dRiVeR · 29th January 2007, 23:16

Quote:

Originally Posted by diwa

I am surprised

. None of you have mentioned Maruti Esteem Diesel & Zen Diesel in the list.

Also add,

Mahindra Scorpio petrol.
BMW 5 lac bike.

I have seen many diesel Maruti's.... Although their sales were nothing compared to their petrol siblings... They also sold in small numbers...

AND GUYS... I FINALLY SAW A SONATA EMBERRA... At yesudas's (singer) son's wedding...

MaserQ · 29th January 2007, 23:49

Ford Mondeo..great car that should have sold better than it did.

sreenivass · 29th January 2007, 23:54

Quote:

Originally Posted by typeOnegative

Hey Sesh, Finney

RX135 has put it very well. Please try to understand the meaning of flop first.

Lets take the case of movies. Haven't you seen a number of movies that were well made, had good actors, and yet 'flopped'? Hope you are getting my drift ...

That the Fiat cars 'flopped' in India is the most heartbreaking thing to have happened to me , other Fiat owners and sympathetic auto enthusiasts. Heartbreaking, but true. Sadly.

Quote:

Originally Posted by finneyp

For the last time, I would NEVER accept that Palio was a flop!

Since, you have taken the example of movies, a movie will be rated either: Super Hit / Hit / Average / Flop.

So the performance of Palio in the Indian market can be rated as: Average. But, never as Flop!!!

Quote:

Originally Posted by typeOnegative

Theek hai boss. Maaf karo. Galti ho gayi!

Despite owning a Petra I think all Fiat models are a flop (have not done well in sales). But that fact does not take my pride away, I am a proud Petra owner like any other Baleno or Wagon-R owner, ...

I think Fiat will do well if they can start training people in how many ways product sales can be goofed up after making some passionately. The training revenues probably will be more than their cars..

I'd think definition of a flop should be potential not turning in to sales, then Fiat cars would be the worst of flops.

finneyp · 30th January 2007, 00:23

Quote:

Originally Posted by sreenivass

Despite owning a Petra I think all Fiat models are a flop (have not done well in sales). But that fact does not take my pride away, I am a proud Petra owner like any other Baleno or Wagon-R owner, ...

I think Fiat will do well if they can start training people in how many ways product sales can be goofed up after making some passionately. The training revenues probably will be more than their cars..

I'd think definition of a flop should be potential not turning in to sales, then Fiat cars would be the worst of flops.

Sreenivas, This topic was discussed in detail a long time back!
There is no point now to opine whether a Car is flop or not!
For me Palio is a damn SUCCESS, for you it may be flop!
Each one his own!

Desert fox · 30th January 2007, 01:02

Some car's i can think of -

1) Hyundai accent with the TUD5 diesel engine!

2) Maruti Zen classic-What a looker that was!!

3)Maruti Zen with TUD5 engine-(except in Andhra pradesh) Was not that well accepted,in my opinion Maruti was experimenting with Indian buyer's mentality,where they should have experimented in making body/chassis more rigid.

Many other models also failed,but some like Matiz,Rover montego etc did not deserve being called 'Failed' models.

sreenivass · 30th January 2007, 01:58

Quote:

Originally Posted by finneyp

Sreenivas, This topic was discussed in detail a long time back!
There is no point now to opine whether a Car is flop or not!
For me Palio is a damn SUCCESS, for you it may be flop!
Each one his own!

finneyp, it is not fair to ask me not to express my opinion. As you said each one his own. I quoted the posts for relevance of topic, not for disagreement.

himanshugoswami · 30th January 2007, 12:42

Quote:

I'd think definition of a flop should be potential not turning in to sales

I think Sreenivas has hit the nail on the head!

Actually by this definition, I would also call the Getz and Elantras as flop cars; esp the Getz since it had the potential to be a market leader (look at the Swift and what it has done to the market!)

But Sreenivas is right- Fiat cars are great (i own one myself) but they have never even come close to doing justice to their potential (except for the fist 6-8 months of the Palio launch). The Uno and Palio are classic examples of a brilliant opportunity frittered away and resulting in less than desirable sales.

Whether one calls them a flop or not depends on ones perspective and what benchmarks are used to compare them with. (Palio needs to be benchmarked against the Getz and Swift- so the Palio was a car ahead of tis time) and Uno needs to be benchmarked against the zen and santro- no need to say anything on that one!

ajitkommini · 30th January 2007, 13:53

How about the Standard 2000? I hardly see them around these days though I've heard of people running them with matador engines!

diwa · 31st January 2007, 00:43

Quote:

Originally Posted by CrAzY dRiVeR

I have seen many diesel Maruti's.... Although their sales were nothing compared to their petrol siblings... They also sold in small numbers...

AND GUYS... I FINALLY SAW A SONATA EMBERRA... At yesudas's (singer) son's wedding...

Thats why it's a huge failure for Maruti. The percentage of diesel's sold is very very minimal. Aren't we discussing about flops here???. We can't go by the number of Maruti diesel's you have spotted (no affence meant).

5th May 2006, 13:56	#61
vinu99@gmail.co BHPian Join Date: Oct 2005 Location: Bangalore Posts: 109 Thanked: 39 Times	I won't consider Pailo as a flop. But the Pathetic Fiat guys made it look like a flop. Eventhough I love the 1.6, I would never buy one in India!
	() Thanks

5th May 2006, 15:06	#62
sbasak BHPian Join Date: Nov 2005 Location: CCU-LTN Posts: 608 Thanked: 14 Times	Beauty lies in the eyes of beholder Mr X's flop is Mr Y's hit! Cars like Palio, Matiz can never be called flop. On the other hand, cars like Standard 2000, Badal are definitely flop.
	() Thanks

29th January 2007, 19:12	#63
GTO Team-BHP Support Join Date: Feb 2004 Location: Bombay Posts: 70,530 Thanked: 300,724 Times View My Garage	Does anyone remember the Quantum? I dont know how it will be in todays context, but boy...when I heard it at the RGs launch party a decade back....I was floored! Apparently the british company still exists today, and this is the car that they invited books for in India : Link. I doubt they sold a single piece.
	() Thanks

29th January 2007, 21:46	#66
diwa BHPian Join Date: Jun 2006 Location: chennai Posts: 355 Thanked: 183 Times	I am surprised . None of you have mentioned Maruti Esteem Diesel & Zen Diesel in the list. Also add, Mahindra Scorpio petrol. BMW 5 lac bike.
	() Thanks

29th January 2007, 23:49	#68
MaserQ Senior - BHPian Join Date: Oct 2006 Location: Bangalore Posts: 1,196 Thanked: 166 Times	Ford Mondeo..great car that should have sold better than it did.
	() Thanks

30th January 2007, 01:02	#71
Desert fox BHPian Join Date: Jan 2007 Location: bangalore Posts: 228 Thanked: Once	Some car's i can think of - 1) Hyundai accent with the TUD5 diesel engine! 2) Maruti Zen classic-What a looker that was!! 3)Maruti Zen with TUD5 engine-(except in Andhra pradesh) Was not that well accepted,in my opinion Maruti was experimenting with Indian buyer's mentality,where they should have experimented in making body/chassis more rigid. Many other models also failed,but some like Matiz,Rover montego etc did not deserve being called 'Failed' models.
	() Thanks

30th January 2007, 13:53	#74
ajitkommini BHPian Join Date: Sep 2006 Location: Bangalore Posts: 490 Thanked: 124 Times	How about the Standard 2000? I hardly see them around these days though I've heard of people running them with matador engines!
	() Thanks