[Parm]

Originally Posted by speed kills

Something alone the lines of the Polo 1.6 is what I'm guessing.

Then whats the point in stopping the 1.6 and bring in the 1.2 TSI. There has to be a tax benefit for cars within 1.2 lts engine range.

The reduction in price has to be passed onto the customer, otherwise whats the use of downsizing from 1.6 to 1.2!

Would the normal 1.2 ltr 3 pot continue to sell along side the TSI or that range would be totally out and replaced by 1.2 TSI?

[Vid6639]

Originally Posted by Parm

Then whats the point in stopping the 1.6 and bring in the 1.2 TSI. There has to be a tax benefit for cars within 1.2 lts engine range.

The reduction in price has to be passed onto the customer, otherwise whats the use of downsizing from 1.6 to 1.2!

The use is that the customer gets a modern engine with better efficiency and better performance. While the engine does get a tax benefit being within 1.2L, it is a more expensive engine to make being a turbo charged direct injection petrol motor thereby increasing costs.

The 1.2TSi is available in 2 power outputs 90PS and 105PS. Effective performance will be more than 1.6 but fuel economy will be in between the 1.2L 3 cylinder and the 1.6L.

Would the normal 1.2 ltr 3 pot continue to sell along side the TSI or that range would be totally out and replaced by 1.2 TSI?

The normal 1.2L 3 pot will co exist is my guess since replacing it will significantly increase the Polo starting price tag.

[ampere]

Originally Posted by speed kills

Something alone the lines of the Polo 1.6 is what I'm guessing.

If its a DSG version, it can be potentially higher. MT versions should be similar to what you propose.

[drpudhi]

Originally Posted by Parm

Expected price for the 1.2 TSi polo? What do you think is the ideal price at which VW should launch the TSi?

At this point in time, anything will be a mere speculation. But that's not gonna stop us discussing, will it?

A MT TSI should never cross the price of 1.6 because i think they can more than recover the turbo cost from the excise benefit.

But as far as a supposed TSI with a 7 speed DSG, am keeping my fingers crossed that they don't price it insanely high. Will be more than happy if they can keep the OTR less than 8 lakhs.

[dipen]

Originally Posted by Vid6639

The use is that the customer gets a modern engine with better efficiency and better performance. While the engine does get a tax benefit being within 1.2L, it is a more expensive engine to make being a turbo charged direct injection petrol motor thereby increasing costs.

The 1.2TSi is available in 2 power outputs 90PS and 105PS. Effective performance will be more than 1.6 but fuel economy will be in between the 1.2L 3 cylinder and the 1.6L.

I am not sure how the 1.2 90 ps TSI's effective performance would be more than the 100+ hp 1.6. I don't think it would have more torque too than the 1.6.

The additional manufacturing cost of the 1.2 TSI could be easily compensated by the excise benefits. Plus the 1.2 donkey engine surely needs to be phased out OR or put in new car in a sub 4 lakh segment competing with WagonR, i10, Brio and the likes to make it competitive. The 1.2 TSI can be shared with Polo, Fabia, Vento, Rapid. So the cost is easily divided.

The 1.2 TSI 90 hp trim does not sound exiting as the Swift, Brio already have that much power nearly with a lighter curb weight. Only benefit it might have is a more usable higher torque but then it should be priced aggressively competitively and not insanely to make sense.

[oxyzen]

Originally Posted by dipen

The 1.2 TSI 90 hp trim does not sound exiting as the Swift, Brio already have that much power nearly with a lighter curb weight. Only benefit it might have is a more usable higher torque but then it should be priced aggressively competitively and not insanely to make sense.

Yup.
Ideally 1.2 TSI should replace the 1.2NA engine not the 1.6L.
If they increase the price by ~30K, I would not mind. This is despite the fact Polo charges a premium over other cars in its segment.

Anyway I dont think it is of much relevance because even today the market the skewed towards diesels. If I remember correctly, the petrol consititutes a mere 25% of the entire sales.

Still for the petrol heads, a 105BHP TSI could be a real treat.

[Vid6639]

Originally Posted by dipen

I am not sure how the 1.2 90 ps TSI's effective performance would be more than the 100+ hp 1.6. I don't think it would have more torque too than the 1.6.

It's a turbo with direct injection. Torque is the best part. The 90PS version puts out 160Nm torque and the 105PS puts out 175Nm. Compared to that the Vento/polo 1.6L have 135Nm.

The engine is lighter weight and is supposed to out perform the 1.6L. Going forward you will see these low displacement high output motors. Another example is the Eco boost engine. 1.0L, 3 cylinder and 122PS meant to replace the 1.6L motor.

The additional manufacturing cost of the 1.2 TSI could be easily compensated by the excise benefits. Plus the 1.2 donkey engine surely needs to be phased out OR or put in new car in a sub 4 lakh segment competing with WagonR, i10, Brio and the likes to make it competitive. The 1.2 TSI can be shared with Polo, Fabia, Vento, Rapid. So the cost is easily divided.

The so called 1.2L 3 cylinder donkey engine is actually pretty good. It's a very good commuter engine for city use. It is a new gen engine used even in europe. It's easily one of the best 3 pot motors around and the only issue I see is with VW pricing the Polo with that engine above the Swift. They should have targeted the Figo, i10 and Brio with that engine.

The 1.2 TSI 90 hp trim does not sound exiting as the Swift, Brio already have that much power nearly with a lighter curb weight. Only benefit it might have is a more usable higher torque but then it should be priced aggressively competitively and not insanely to make sense.

Just looking at displacement is not correct. The Laura has a 1.8L engine putting out 160PS. The Jetta TSi has a 1.4L engine with 122PS.

The Petrol 1.8TSi superb out accelerates the Honda Accord which on paper has a 2.4L engine with 180PS. Is that also not exciting.

All I'm trying to say is don't decide the fate of a car/engine before it is out in the market. Let's wait and watch rather than being negative.

[dipen]

Originally Posted by Vid6639

All I'm trying to say is don't decide the fate of a car/engine before it is out in the market. Let's wait and watch rather than being negative.

True Vid.
The 1.2 is a called a donkey engine coz in the segment in which it sits, its not good enough especially for the price VW charges. The 1.2 is revv happy but highly unrefined with all that noise. Similarly Figo's 1.2 is a donkey engine.

The 1.2 TSI would be good, quick and fast, reasonably fuel efficient but if VW is looking at numbers and killing competition premium petrol hatches, it needs to be priced at max 50k over the Swift. Carwale shows 1.2 Highline @ 6.8 without discounts while the ex-1.6 is 7.5+ without discounts. With such pricing where will the 1.2 TSI sit. VW should do Honda - Correct the prices of the 1.2 to slot it between Swift and Brio while price the 1.2 TSI over a 50k max premium over the Swift to make it sub 7.5 OTR for the current highline equipped model.

Every engine's worth in the eco segment is very closely determined by its model's pricing ability to make it a VFM proposition.

[vb-saan]

Originally Posted by Parm

Then whats the point in stopping the 1.6 and bring in the 1.2 TSI. There has to be a tax benefit for cars within 1.2 lts engine range.

Originally Posted by oxyzen

Ideally 1.2 TSI should replace the 1.2NA engine not the 1.6L.

Originally Posted by Vid6639

It's a turbo with direct injection. Torque is the best part. The 90PS version puts out 160Nm torque and the 105PS puts out 175Nm. Compared to that the Vento/polo 1.6L have 135Nm.

The engine is lighter weight and is supposed to out perform the 1.6L. Going forward you will see these low displacement high output motors. Another example is the Eco boost engine. 1.0L, 3 cylinder and 122PS meant to replace the 1.6L motor.

To add-on to what Vid have mentioned above, 1.2 TSI is indeed the global replacement for the old 1.4/1.6 MPI engine in the VAG small car family (90bhp and 105 bhp respectively).
Probably ours is one of the last few markets in which the 1.6 is still in running.

[SPARKled]

Saw 3 polos speeding away on the vashi bridge with the TSI badging under tapes but the first car had only half the of the badge covered which clearly showed the TSI underneath.

[agambhandari]

Originally Posted by SPARKled

Saw 3 polos speeding away on the vashi bridge with the TSI badging under tapes but the first car had only half the of the badge covered which clearly showed the TSI underneath.

Great news..launch seems imminent now.
Just a thought, when testing cars, why don't manufacturers de-badge the cars before taking it out on open roads ? Why so stupid?

[Epic]

Originally Posted by Vid6639

It's a turbo with direct injection. Torque is the best part. The 90PS version puts out 160Nm torque and the 105PS puts out 175Nm. Compared to that the Vento/polo 1.6L have 135Nm.

The Polo 1.6 churns out 105 bhp with 153 Nm torque not 135 Nm.

Originally Posted by Vid6639

The so called 1.2L 3 cylinder donkey engine is actually pretty good. It's a very good commuter engine for city use. It is a new gen engine used even in europe. It's easily one of the best 3 pot motors around and the only issue I see is with VW pricing the Polo with that engine above the Swift. They should have targeted the Figo, i10 and Brio with that engine.

I feel that this engine is a shame. I just couldn't drive this car when I was looking for a hatch to replace my Swift. Found it pretty sluggish. It is also noisy like a diesel and does vibrate a bit too.

But then I do feel that the TSI would be a better bet due to the turbo. Then again, higher maintenance costs?

[prithwi-81]

The issue with the 1.6 TPI/HTP engine is not the engine per say, but the pathetic wide spread 5spd gearbox its mated to that is totally mismatched to the engine. I was hugely interested in the 1.6 when i was shopping around for my beater. I went with the Brio VMT purely due to the incredible power to weight, and the terrific combo of 1.2L Engine and perfectly matched gearbox.

[dipen]

To add to everything said above on the TSI in this thread, I have a feeling that this engine may not be as refined as Japs (and some of the new Koreans). Thought emerges from the fact that the 1.4 TSI in the Jetta is not as refined as the 1.8, 2.0 TSI motors.

[IshaanIan]

Well I don't think one ought to expect a 1.2 to be as refined as a 1.8 it will certainly be refined in its own right. Realistically, considering it is Volkswagen India and that this will be sitting in the hot supermini segment which is to my knowledge void here in our country (punto 90hp, sure but it's just too heavy), I would be more than happy if they could get the otr price to be under 9lakhs. Before people become outraged, consider this: the top-end swift is 8 and a bit on road, the vgt punto is just a bit more. Now this polo would bring usable power and refinement mixed with the higher tech powering it. though with the premium ze Germans usually expect, I'd say my estimate would be optimistic :P