Team-BHP - Should Tata just put JLR in charge of Tata motors?

In simple terms every car JLR makes these days is a smash hit globally. JLR operates in a market where the technical quality of their product must compete with the worlds best. Tata motors biggest competitor is Suzuki hardly a world beater and yet their home market is under severe and growing threat.

Tata cars need to make giant strides forward to compete as the likes of VW enter their home market. With this in mind why not outsource management of R&D to the jLR? By putting JLR in charge of Tata motors Indian R&D unit surely Tata will advance more quickly

As jack welch of GE said, look at a takeover as a huge talent grab. Tata have got all the JLR staff talent. Utilize it wisely and their quality levels at Tata go up fast and efficiently.

Of course that applies to any company that takes over another. Mahindra have bought ssangyong.

Looking at the question, Tata should cherry pick some talent from JLR and use them to improve quality standards for their mass market products.

Well I do not agree, for so far barring the last few years, the Tata's have been very good in spotting various market gaps and have positioned products very smartly.

Look at Tata Ace, Tata Magic, Tata Magic Iris, Nano and of course the ubiqutous Indica and and cult of Safari and not to forget the Indica CS, the Marina - probably they were the first to identify and open the segments, I would even credit them with sensing an opportunity in cross-overs. - It is sad that they had to handover to Mahindra's and the new comers like Renault!

They were the first to design for typical Indian requirements not retrofit and homologate and dump stuff on us.

I believe putting JLR in the driving seat would undermine this excellent ability to anticipate and respond to the market needs.

The challenge with Tata is execution. and speed of execution if you ask me. Look at the Storme - the thunder was stolen by XUV.

They could definitely take a page or two from JLR in building Quality, Reliability and a learning to add a bit of Oomph to their products.

And of course branding and importantly the A.S.S.

I spent my patriotic capital on many Tata vehicles - a Tata Estate, an Indica and a Safari! After all the bother of niggles and avoidable quality issues am recouping and rebuilding my capital for another Tata vehicle.

But this time around will wait for the right product - with decent level quality and reliability and improvement in both their sales and after sales service levels.

Quote:

Originally Posted by pganapathy (Post 2949856)

Looking at the question, Tata should cherry pick some talent from JLR and use them to improve quality standards for their mass market products.

I know what you mean in the above statement, but JLR also has a JV with Chery automotive of China; may be TATA can look at producing some cars along with them in India?

Quote:

Originally Posted by sgiitk (Post 2949982)

I wonder whether JLR has a clue about the mass market, or the CV segment? Also, remember JLR was haemorrhaging until Tata bought them.

Probably not, but they can definitely help improve quality levels at Tata. And at chery come to think of it. Don't see why Tata and chery should not collaborate in both the Indian and Chinese markets.

IMHO Tata needs to first improve on there marketing and servicing part. When you go to buy a Tata vehicle, you are the most ignored part of the showroom. Its like they are doing favor on you. Also there A.S.S. is the worst. My brothers Indigo has few problems & they couldn't fix it. We have to get it fixed it by outside garage, which is worst.

So even if TATA improves these 2 areas, they will be much better. There current cars including Nano, Vista, Manza, Safari & Aria etc are well built & at par with market.

This may be possible,but only for a year or two JLR is profitable and world is watching them for their new product launches,prior to that JLR itself was in a state of bother.Also they have to improve their CSI and reliability index that is languishing at the bottom.So JLR has to sort their issues first before helping TATA Motors in India,as this is totally in a different league as opposed to JLR's actual operating countries.

The best thing that is possible here is for future vehicle developments TATA can reach out to JLR rather than asking them to takeover at least for next few years.Another area where both could collaborate is PEV'S and the Diesel Hybrids,if they do it then they will be the first to do it in India.

I do not agree.

Making a best car with the best quality components and selling at 40K + USD is what JLR is good at it. They do not have huge budget/FE constraints. They concentrate more on the drive, Quality of parts and Image of the brand.

When it comes to india, the game is completly different. :Frustrati One needs to use, Cheap parts but the parts should look expensive and weigh light. The car should be small, but it should be capable of fitting 5-6 elders with huge boot. (Indica)

In india, the car should look like a costly car, but the cost should be cheap.
We need a huge number for one question " Kitna deti hai" What's the FE? and this is not going to be best if all good parts are used. (Increases weight)

Ideally speaking, Making a car in india shouldnt ideally be called as Engineering. the word would be similar to Cost Cutting + Increasing FE. New Swift has Plastic tank. They shod around 15KG by doing so. Suzuki says, "the new swift is better at FE and it weighs light" The people mentality + Attrocious Fuel prices + Aam Junta make the game inverted to what US/European countries play.

Tata Bought JLR. If JLR manages tata, wouldnt it look/feel bad? :Shockked: It proves Tata's inefficiency in running a company successfully? Stocks of TM would crash.

Couple of genuine questions before I pen down my thoughts.

1. Is JLR reliability supreme?
2. Does it make financial sense to offer JLR quality in TATA products?
3. If we are not looking at JLR quality, does this effort make sense from the personnel cost involved in engaging JLR resources?

My suggestions are to keep the marketing function within TATA itself & outsource design to JLR (to be frank, I don't find a reason to outsource design. TATA products do look neat to me in the current avatars). They need to be stringent with quality of mechanicals for the next couple of products to gain customer confidence. If I were to head TATA Motor operations, I would have hired some Japanese guys for QA before doing any of the rest.

In my opinion,

Tata has been able to conceive such successful vehicles, i mean they click so much to the Indian Car scene that, had they been introduced with some other OEM like toyota, they would have been super-voluminous
Eg- the Manza - its a car with so much of capability, class leading space, class leading power, class leading comfort, and very good interiors(IMO) but the only thing that shudders the average Indian buyer from this awesome vehicle is the Brand name- TATA

With their-
1. Nonsense service centres
2. Full of niggles vehicles
3. Very less reliablity of parts

No one would like to leave their peace of mind!

Thus i believe that all these issues are more the Quality Control department rather than a design flaw!
and if for anything- they should seriously consider training their QC department from JLR rest they could themselves do wonders!

My suggestion. Someone from JLR, especially Jaguar should teach the Tata automotive designers. I mean, the current Indica Vista is okay-okay in looks. The Manza doesn't look good , so does Aria in some respects and Nano. No objection against Nano as its a a "built to a cost" car. That said, the old Safari was very good looking amongst entry level SUVs. But, they could have improved the looks of Safari Storme . So, I wasnt the Tata to improve a lot on its design front.

Quote:

Originally Posted by akhil_rpmlover (Post 2950081)

My suggestion. Someone from JLR, especially Jaguar should teach the Tata automotive designers.

IMHO, there is nothing inherently wrong with Tata motor designs - especially for the price point that they are selling at. What they need to improve are 3 things - Quality, Show room buying experience and A.S.S

Quote:

Originally Posted by chennai-indian (Post 2950112)

Well, looks are subjective bro. I find that they could imporve the designs a lot. Rather than making the Manza a boot version of Vista, they can altogether put up a new design. Even the Manza hybrid concept which they showed off looks better. of-course, the 3 things you mentioned require must improvement though.

I am sorry but I fail to understand one thing. Before Tata bought JLR it was in red and in about 3 years or so it is in profits with smash hits all over the world. So who should teach whom about car market ... JLR or Tatas .
I am sure it must be the same workforce churning out the cars at JLR pre and post takeover.