[hemanth.anand]

Originally Posted by ece2k2

I saw a Punto Abarth test car today. It was a 2 door model with nice looking alloys and there was a paper pasted in the dashboard that said "Special fuel".

Attached is a photo - sorry for the poor quality image.

Wonderful catch!

Eagerly waiting for the Abarth...not for the car but it'll sure save me a lot of bucks in importing spares

Originally Posted by KarthikK

Just hoping they price the EsseEsse well enough. Anything below 15L and I'm queuing up outside the Abarth dealership next year. SBI manager, are you listening?

Below 15 will be an aggressive one. I feel that it may be priced ±20Lakhs and I expect volumes similar to the VW beetle.

[nkrishnap]

With the fuel quality, wondering if they detune the 1.4 Multiair to 160 PS instead of 185 PS.

But what I dont want to see is, them plonking the regular 1.4 in a higher state of tune . But the Abarth brand needs to go with the top of the line Multiair Engine.

But the little birdie in me thinks other wise.

A lil insight into the Multiair Engine technology.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Td9Gz_h7Qpg

[tbppjpr]

Originally Posted by nkrishnap

A lil insight into the Multiair Engine technology.

Since the discussion is going around some newer generation engine technologies, how different these Fiat MultiAri engines are compared to Ford Ecoboost, VW TSI, BMW TwinPower Turbo or other modern age engines?

I am noob in engine technicalities but whatever little I understand, most of the modern engines (including the most commuter engines we already have in India) have multiple jets for fuel means all are multijet and they have multiple points for air flow means all are multiair, so what is special in the Fiat MultiAir technology?

Would be helpful for people like me to understand if someone throws some insight.

Some other animation videos of other engines:

Ford Ecoboost:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wmHxi...ature=youtu.be

VW TSI:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fvysu...ature=youtu.be

BMW TwinPower Turbo:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=C_2dQ...ature=youtu.be

[nkrishnap]

Originally Posted by tbppjpr

Since the discussion is going around some newer generation engine technologies, how different these Fiat MultiAri engines are compared to Ford Ecoboost, VW TSI, BMW TwinPower Turbo or other modern age engines?

I am noob in engine technicalities but whatever little I understand, most of the modern engines (including the most commuter engines we already have in India) have multiple jets for fuel means all are multijet and they have multiple points for air flow means all are multiair, so what is special in the Fiat MultiAir technology?

How is multiair different is evident from the video itself. The Eco boost, TSI and Twin power all are similar turbo petrols like the Multiair. But where the Multiair is different is the getting control of the valve opening and closing to adapt to different driving conditions. The VVTi and Vtec and variable valve timing does similar stuff but is restricted to how the cam is profiled whereas the soloniod control valve open/close will enable to control this across the rev range though the ECU.

Hope this helps.

[moralfibre]

Fiat shouldn't launch the Abarth Punto in India:

- They are having a hard time selling their standard products. A special edition or a performance edition will not turn the sales charts on fire.

- They took a hit with the Fiat 500 and should have learned from that experience.

- Not many people would be willing to plonk money on a "Fiat". Getting a used BMW 320d with the right performance and economy balance makes better sense.

- It is a 3-door hatch. A downer for the market in India.

If I were Fiat, I would take the Abarth brand to the Buddh circuit and lease space for trackdays. Invite people to enjoy those cars on a pay per use basis. Have a racing calendar for enthusiasts on the lines of Polo cup.

[rock75]

Fiat is down so far that the only way they can go is up from here! Whether jeep and GC will be manufactured in India or imported as the budget has changed the equation for imported cars.

What is lacking in the customers is the faith in brand Fiat's credibility to provide proper after sales service and spare parts on time. I think they need to work on that on priority. They also require a volume product at the earliest.

[Rudra Sen]

Originally Posted by StarrySky

Why would Abarth Punto be CBU when Fiat manufactures Punto locally? Only some parts will probably be imported. But of course, it won't sell much and I don't think Fiat is also expecting it to sell much. This is probably just for brand building.

I just saw your reply and was about to put my reply down. But moralfibre has said all what I wanted to.

Originally Posted by moralfibre

Fiat shouldn't launch the Abarth Punto in India:

- They are having a hard time selling their standard products. A special edition or a performance edition will not turn the sales charts on fire.

- They took a hit with the Fiat 500 and should have learned from that experience.

- Not many people would be willing to plonk money on a "Fiat". Getting a used BMW 320d with the right performance and economy balance makes better sense.

- It is a 3-door hatch. A downer for the market in India.

If I were Fiat, I would take the Abarth brand to the Buddh circuit and lease space for trackdays. Invite people to enjoy those cars on a pay per use basis. Have a racing calendar for enthusiasts on the lines of Polo cup.

[KarthikK]

Originally Posted by moralfibre

Fiat shouldn't launch the Abarth Punto in India:

- They are having a hard time selling their standard products. A special edition or a performance edition will not turn the sales charts on fire.

What if their motto now is not to set sales charts on fire, but rather, to cater to a niche performance-oriented audience? We saw Fiat's head honchos say this in one recent press conference. Quoting a portion which referred to what Fiat said :
At the corporate strategy meet in Mumbai, Fiat made it amply clear that it only wants to cater to the enthusiast market of India. Fiat believes that ‘Petrolheads’ constitute 24% of car buyers in India and the Italian automakers will only focus on them.

- They took a hit with the Fiat 500 and should have learned from that experience.

That was a big blunder. The Fiat 500 was a CBU and had a miserable 75bhp multijet engine powering it. I can't say the same story would have happened if the 500 Abarth was in its place with 165 horses on tap for a performance-oriented customer. Either way performance or CBU hatches have no market presence in India but just saying anyway. People here prefer to get a sedan as soon as a hatchback's price tag crosses 7-8L .

- Not many people would be willing to plonk money on a "Fiat". Getting a used BMW 320d with the right performance and economy balance makes better sense.

I agree with the brand perception and hatchback size being a downer, but I wouldn't agree that getting a used 320d makes more sense financially. With the Abarth Punto sharing many of the exterior body / mechanical parts thanks to localized production of its non-Abarth sibling here, its a no-brainer that it will be cheaper to service and maintain than a used BMW priced at 15L, in my humble opinion. This of course, is ignoring the petrol v/s diesel fuel costs.

If I were Fiat, I would take the Abarth brand to the Buddh circuit and lease space for trackdays. Invite people to enjoy those cars on a pay per use basis. Have a racing calendar for enthusiasts on the lines of Polo cup.

This, I have to say is a fantastic suggestion. Irrespective of whether they launch the Abarth SS or not in cities, they should allow enthusiasts to have an on-track experience of such performance monsters. On a different note, I guess this can extend to all performance brands. They can start allowing drivers to enjoy their performance vehicles on track for a good price.

[StarrySky]

Originally Posted by moralfibre

- They are having a hard time selling their standard products. A special edition or a performance edition will not turn the sales charts on fire.

I don't think Fiat or anyone else is expecting that the Abarth Punto would set sales charts on fire. A real performance edition (not the lame Punto Sports) would certainly elevate the brand a little bit in the eyes of the car enthusiast.

Originally Posted by moralfibre

- They took a hit with the Fiat 500 and should have learned from that experience.

I don't think the two cars are comparable (except maybe in price in India). Fiat 500's USP was cute looks (subjective). Abarth Punto's USP is real world performance that will likely put some cars 2-3 times its price in the shade.

Originally Posted by moralfibre

- Not many people would be willing to plonk money on a "Fiat". Getting a used BMW 320d with the right performance and economy balance makes better sense.

Well, Fiat is trying to get people to plonk money in it. Independent A.S.S, Jeep products, refreshed Punto/Linea, Abarth are all part of that. As for a used BMW 320d - how many can afford to maintain it, once it is out of warranty?

Originally Posted by moralfibre

- It is a 3-door hatch. A downer for the market in India.

It may be a downer for a family car, but I guess that it not how the Abarth version will be positioned.

[fiat_tarun]

Well, I'm sure Fiat knows Abarth is not going to give them volumes and turn around their fortunes in India. At one of the media events, they spoke about the 25% of the market that is enthusiast driven and that they plan to target that. This is where the Abarth comes in. The Punto is locally made and the T-Jet engine is anyway coming in for the Linea.

If they can price a locally made Punto Abarth <10L they will sell decent volumes and would help with some much needed brand building. This of course depends on them getting the sales and service experience right.

Come 2014 they will launch some new models with which they hope will bring in the real volumes.

We can go on and on about what a terrible market share Fiat has in India, but they have to start from somewhere. I think this will help to some extent. If one manufacturer starts and sees some success in this segment we can only expect other to follow. Maybe then Maruti may think it makes sense to bring in the Swift Sport to India. Ideally they should be the one's to take the lead, considering the Swift brand value here in India.

[Biraj]

I don't understand why everybody (and their friends) is trying to shoot Fiat down even before they have made their attempt at comeback. What we need to understand is that it's a new team at helm now and we certainly shouldn't undermine their business acumen based on results of the earlier team. Fiat is a large group and I am sure they have a clear strategy in mind on how to position its brand in India. If they want to cater to the enthusiasts and not look at the mass market, I don't see any harm in it. India has a predominantly young population and there is a small (yet significant) segment of urban youth that has high disposable income. This urban youth will desire for products that matches its lifestyle and reflects its attitude. I see a great potential in products like Punto Abarth to cater to this segment. Yes, it won't be a revenue/volume driven market but it can certainly be a high EBIDTA market if Fiat plays its cards well. They already have a sweet engine deal to take care of their revenue so, it makes all the business sense to target the low volume high margin, enthusiast sector. Moreover, it might be a conscious decision to not go after the mass market (Swift/Ritz) as that might lead to a conflict of interest with Maruti.

[rock75]

If fiat continues to sell the way they are their new dealers will shut shop soon, they got to have a two pronged strategy. Target the high end with premium SUVs, a segment which has been doing well recently, and introduce a mass product under Punto with famed multijet engine.

Linea With 1.6litre multijet and 1.4 litre multiair should be launched only in new model and aggressively marketed to drive home the difference. This should fetch some numbers for fiat.

[amitg79]

I feel that the 2 door Abarth Punto SS spotted may have been a test mule. Fiat had announced that the Abarth Punto will be locally manufactured in both petrol and diesel versions. They would not manufacture a 2-door version locally, which is essentially going to sell in very small numbers. They also (hopefully) would not have chucked their original plan of manufacturing the Abarth Punto locally and import the 2-door version.

[rohanjf]

I just realised that Linea with 1.6 MJD, by government's new definition, will be an SUV, and will attract additional excise duty!!!

Fiat will have to reduce the ground clearance of 1.6 MJD Linea to less than 170 mm, from the current 185 mm. I hope they do that with the facelift.

[nkrishnap]

Originally Posted by rohanjf

I just realised that Linea with 1.6 MJD, by government's new definition, will be an SUV, and will attract additional excise duty!!!

Fiat will have to reduce the ground clearance of 1.6 MJD Linea to less than 170 mm, from the current 185 mm. I hope they do that with the facelift.

How much more stupid can the rule be. By giving higher ground clearance and plonking an 1.6 MJD in the engine bay, how on earth can this be considered as SUV. This clearly shows how the policies are simply made without even it a second thought.

Hope Fiat sticks to 170 mm just for the sake of ride and handling.