[Scorpioman]

Nothing to do with Fiat India but hoping this makes it way here.

Low cost Maserati launched in the US.

http://www.cnbc.com/id/101730740

[vinit.merchant]

Originally Posted by GTO

Movers & Shakers

• The Punto & Linea are struggling, even when compared to recent numbers which were awful to begin with. I can only wonder how the dealers are surviving. It's been 5 years since they were launched and are now long in the tooth. The brand's negative reputation doesn't help matters either. Fiat is going to need a lot more than cut-price variants & dressed up versions.

Agree with this, but then it is these numbers what Fiat has been achieving since more than a year now.
Issue is, I do not think they have cars to suit the Indian market, starting from an entry level hatch to C1/2 segment. There was a buzz some time back about an entry level hatch from Fiat but thats about it.

How did they think of surviving in a market with only two models on their portfolio, is what is bothering. If the management thinking is still unchanged, expecting any improvements in the near future would be foolish.
Bringing in Jeep/etc is not going to change things for Fiat, as they will be separate brands with separate dealers/SS.

A portfolio of 4 cars in 4 diff price brackets is what seems ideal in Indian market
3-5 lakh Hatch
5-7 lakh hatch/Compact Sedan
7-9 Copact Sedan/Sedan
9-11 Sedan

EDIT: And if they can throw in a Compact SUV, nothing like it. But again, they do not have the products that suit Indian Markets, leaving aside the premium Hatch in Punto and the Sedan in Linea.

[rsidd]

Originally Posted by GTO

• The Punto & Linea are struggling, even when compared to recent numbers which were awful to begin with. I can only wonder how the dealers are surviving.

I suspect the dealers are fine because much of the revenue comes from service, not sales! The service centre I go to (Ramkay in Perungudi, Chennai) is always busy. (No reflection on the quality of Fiat cars of course. But there are many Fiats on the road now and they do need occasional attention, even if only once a year!)

New models are on the way. That said, sales of the new Linea do seem disappointing, given the excellent reviews it has been getting.

[desdemona]

Originally Posted by vinit.merchant

How did they think of surviving in a market with only two models on their portfolio, is what is bothering. If the management thinking is still unchanged, expecting any improvements in the near future would be foolish.
Bringing in Jeep/etc is not going to change things for Fiat, as they will be separate brands with separate dealers/SS.
.

Don't forget they've got other, major revenue streams: the tata Zest and Bolt will be made at the profitable Ranjangaon JV, engines and AMT gearboxes for Maruti, and some exports of cars, engines, and components

Two months ago Punto was selling @ 800+ a month, it seems it has dropped only because the new Punto's coming in July. If marketed strongly I am sure it will get back up there, or higher.

It appears that the new Linea is selling only in T-jet avatar, not in the MJD version. Guess they underestimated the extent to which buyers want the segment-best engine capacity/power/torque. They must accelerate the arrival of the 1.5/1.6 MJD.

They would be wise to launch the new Punto with the rumoured 1.2version of the T-jet too, priced at a premium.

Their big problem is that old negative perceptions of the quality of their dealers and of ASS are more or less intact. They can only slog at improving their ASS quality reputation: launching new models at different price points will not work.

[vinit.merchant]

Originally Posted by desdemona

Don't forget they've got other, major revenue streams: the tata Zest and Bolt will be made at the profitable Ranjangaon JV, engines and AMT gearboxes for Maruti, and some exports of cars, engines, and components

Two months ago Punto was selling @ 800+ a month, it seems it has dropped only because the new Punto's coming in July. If marketed strongly I am sure it will get back up there, or higher.

Their big problem is that old negative perceptions of the quality of their dealers and of ASS are more or less intact. They can only slog at improving their ASS quality reputation: launching new models at different price points will not work.

Agree on the major revenue sources, but then Fiat is a Car manufacturer and in India, it is earning more from selling engines and components, and nothing in car sales.

Re: new Punto, I hope it is not a mere facelift, just like the facelifted Linea recently.

If we go by the numbers, then they showed a positive trend after they separated from Tata A.S.S., but then how far can 2 cars in portfolio which are 5 year old can take you.

Again, it is subjective, but according to me, they need atleast 4 cars. And then they need to worry about their only 2 cars being already 5 year old. Bringing in a new version in one of the segment will help the footfalls in the showroom. This is what the trend shows. Eg: even the i10 is now 6+ years old, but they have kept bringing new cars in other segments. More footfalls convert to higher sales. Buyers like options (Santro-->i10-->Grand i10-->i20)
Right now, Fiat actually has no options for buyers.
Low budget/Hatchback customers - Punto
High Budget/Sedan Customers - Linea.

An option of 2 hatchbacks and 2 Sedans can make a world of difference. Fiat has the lowest portfolio of cars, ignoring Datsun.

[desdemona]

I do get that, and do not disagree, all i am saying is that:

(a) the new Linea is not a 'mere' facelift: the entire interior has been redesigned and premiumized, the T-jet engine, imported earlier, is now being made in Ranjangaon and so is being offered at staggeringly affordable prices. Equipment levels have been upped. It already is class-leading along MOST parameters. And still after the first month of 650 odd sales, it has settled back down to its old runrate of 230+/- odd cars. Why? The lingering distrust in dealers and ASS.

(b) The Avventura can be a big source of additional footfalls in showrooms and --->sales for it, or spillover sales for the Punto and or Linea. Especially, IF they also launch it with the T-jet petrol.

(c) They clearly MUST not delay the introduction, with fanfare marketing, of the 1.5/1.6 mjd on the Linea. Also, they must launch the Dualogic AMT on the diesel(s) (the same one as on the upcoming Zest.)

(d) the Ranjangaon plant is a 50:50 JV. Fiat does not only get a supplier's share for engines but gets something like half (?) the share in every Tata Vista/Manza/Zest/Bolt as well, if I am not wrong. So Fiat's revenue stream is much bigger than it would appear, especially if the Zest + Bolt takeoff well in the market.

(e) They are not the only ones struggling in this market: everyone bar the 3 East Asian firms are. (Ford and renault are just one-trick ponies in this market.)
This is a tough, unforgiving, un-forgetting market with lots of blind herding at play. i.e., Redemption will be very slow in coming, and needs YEARS of marketing+better dealers+better ASS+marketing+....

[rsidd]

Fiat technically sells three cars right now -- old Linea, new Linea, Punto, but the point is taken that a new name is required. From that point of view it was smart to name the crossover Avventura, not "Punto Avventura" or similar, but whether it is a compelling buy at an attractive price remains to be seen. It seems clear that Fiat has no intention of bringing in a car cheaper than the Punto -- it has two candidates, Panda (not particularly cheap) and Novo Uno (Brazil), but clearly has decided that neither would make sense for India. And in Europe Fiat sells no sedans -- it leaves that market to Lancia -- so there is nothing to bring in above the Linea, either. That leaves very few options under the Fiat marque -- hence the talk of Abarth, Jeep, etc. I strongly feel those brands should be sold under the same roof: Fiat feels burned by sharing a roof with Tata, but this is different, Fiat will be in control.

I also feel that, for the Indian market, Lancia/Maserati would make more sense than Abarth, but maybe they know what they're doing.

[volkman10]

Originally Posted by rsidd

I also feel that, for the Indian market, Lancia/Maserati would make more sense than Abarth, but maybe they know what they're doing.

At a presentation of Fiat Chrysler’s strategy in May , FIAT plans to limit Lancia to Italy, it looks like putting Lancia on life support and is a matter of time Lancia could be phased out.

[neoonwheels]

FIAT has a sedan in China by name Viaggio. It could well be positioned above Linea. FIAT always had this lethargic approach to introduce new cars. Linea was brought into the market in 2009 and it got its first ever 'real' upgrade only in 2014, that's 5 years ! Honda came up with all NEW diesel engine while FIAT could not even de-tune the 1.6 MJD to meet the 1.5 criteria for excise duty.

I wonder what has been promised to the new dealers that they are pouring money into the infrastructure. Now the Rupee is pretty strong and yet there is no sign of JEEP. It was the reason given by FIAT to delay the JEEP brand's entry into India.

I respect FIAT as a technology company but their Indian management has always been below average performer.

[WorkingGuru]

Abit OT :

FIAT is offering 10% off on Parts & 20% on Labour, with some Free Checkup & general cleaning from 13th to 15th June.

[lapis_lazuli]

Originally Posted by desdemona

Their big problem is that old negative perceptions of the quality of their dealers and of ASS are more or less intact.

Problem? Yes!
Old? Not really, its as new and as fresh it can get, on a daily basis!

Perception: not at all, it is reality!

Just yesterday, me and another bhpian and T Jet owner went to one of the Flagship service outlets. I had been there to get an ECU update on my puny Punto 1.172. (Seemingly, it will resolve the brake hardening problem. It was announced by the company late 2013, but no one from the dealership, cared to inform me, though this lady calls me every week asking the same question: when is my service due?)

No problem, we have the forums, thanks.

After I have reached the outlet, they tell me it is only possible at the other outlet, which is 25kms away. Fair enough, I say, there are quite a few rattles, can you just tighten the hex nuts at 4 places? Nope: You need to open a job card, bring the car inside, and we will first inspect if the part needs to be changed and then work on it. No tight business.

Good....I had my friend with me, who has just had his issues escalated and some labour charge sham exposed in-front of the CS Head, north. So the workshop is in "oblige all" mode for him. He steps in, "asks" the Floor manager, if the "tight" can be done, takes 2 minutes. It was done, immediately. So, unless you have the "clout", or some ongoing issue which have caused them embarassment, you are on your own. So how is this different then? It was always like this...no? I will NOT buy the "exception rule/ one-off" theory here !

On the other hand, there is another outlet, smaller, but quite easy on these things. They will do a quick dirty "tight" job for the asking. And for anyone...no clout needed. Be it the quick link rod tight, or the "simple" c pillar plastic push fit (its not easy, DIY).

But inertia of the managers and techs at this outlet: will put Newton to shame. Simple task, easy decisions, but ages to get it done, deferred, deferred: procrast...what is that word, again? Fairly weak in English....me!

So, the ASS hasn't or doesn't need to change, probably. Its no corporate, where there is a mission vision statement percolated down the line: its a money making outlet, which has got little to do with customer satisfaction, except for the very demanding (read informed) ones. Am I unsatisfied? Not at all but I have my ways to get things done! Not all owners do, and unless there is a big failure, they ain't bothered!

But, what I see these days, there is a long list of rates publicly displayed, for the common jobs like oil change, coolant change etc etc. Reasonable enough. Brake pads change, for example, 300 front, 500 rear. General labour 350 per hour. What was missing: headlight change charge, wiper change charge etc. Not important.

I am done "ranting". Peace.

[sdp1975]

Originally Posted by WorkingGuru

FIAT is offering 10% off on Parts & 20% on Labour, with some general cleaning from 13th to 15th June.

Attachment 1249080

I read on TFI that the discount on spares and labor is applicable only for "rain care" and nothing else.

Previously the discount on labor and spares was available across the board - not for routine service however. I had changed my rear shock absorbers and got a discount on labor and parts using the discount coupon - this was a few months back.

Now they have confined the discount to "rain care " and this has no practical benefit. You'll get a meager discount only for wipers - nothing else comes to my mind that could be related to "rain care".

Also, the checkup is not comprehensive but only related to rain care - such as headlights and wipers. You might as well check all that at home instead of spending half a day visiting the ASC.

[Sommos]

Originally Posted by desdemona

Don't forget they've got other, major revenue streams: the tata Zest and Bolt will be made at the profitable Ranjangaon JV, engines and AMT gearboxes for Maruti, and some exports of cars, engines, and components

Their big problem is that old negative perceptions of the quality of their dealers and of ASS are more or less intact. They can only slog at improving their ASS quality reputation: launching new models at different price points will not work.

If Fiat is content with the revenue they earn by selling the MJD engine, the AMT gearbox etc. then they should term themselves as a Technology Partner and not a manufacturer of cars in India.

The Negative perception is not only about the FASS but mainly because Fiat deserted their customers and still does not show a strong commitment to the Indian market. Skoda has horrible ASS followed closely be VW but still they manage to sell their cars in India.

[finneyp]

Originally Posted by Sommos

The Negative perception is not only about the FASS but mainly because Fiat deserted their customers and still does not show a strong commitment to the Indian market.

Please elaborate when did Fiat desert their customers?

I own a Palio for last 10+ years & had Fiat Service all through...

[gsurya]

Originally Posted by finneyp

Please elaborate when did Fiat desert their customers?

I own a Palio for last 10+ years & had Fiat Service all through...

I have a 15 year old Fiat Uno Petrol Uno maintained with a mix of Fiat & friendly neighbourhood service shop. Is still serving me very well at 1 lakh kms as our 2nd car.

We own a Chevy Aveo, Mahindra Scorpio & Maruti Alto in our extended family.

Maruti service naturally tops. Chevrolet 2nd. Fiat 3rd & Mahindra last.

I would still buy a Fiat to replace my Uno - possibly the new Punto if it strikes the right notes.