[deetjohn]

Good update. I like.

You should give it to Fiat for trying and retrying. And the one I am looking forward to the most in the proposed lineup is the new Linea and the 1.6 MJD.

The silent spectator + a Fiat Owner saying this. So guys. Listen carefully. FIAT = Fabrica Italiano Automobile Torino. They have the word Automobile in their name itself + They are the ones who have introduced using Fabric based bodies for cars which weigh light and perform the best. when it comes to branding, They own Ferrari, Chrysler, FIAT, Alfa, Jeep and other brands.

Yes they are Italians and they design the best Designs. any objections? have a look at LINEA which is a beauty queen which hardly sells 40 units a month in a country where BMW sales are more than 300.

Yes, they are not Skoda, which makes their customers cry for buying a product. Yes, they are the ones who sell a premium product at a under market price.

Yes, they are the ones who are bashed like hell by those who never ever driven their products. they are the ones who make driver centric cars, even if the market is going the other way.

They are the ones who make cars without compromising on some components. they are not VW, who give doors which close with a thud + the boot with a tinplate. They are not VW which gives a Engine guard made of plastic.

They are not Japanese, who make their cars with Tin Foil (Amul cold coffee can feels stronger) which give extrordinary FE. Man!! you are running on engine. yes, the engine will be strong because it has a body made of Tin foil.

They are the ones who give the best package in the existing market. Check the features of Punto Dynamic + the features of Swift VDI. you will get to know.

They are the only ones in the market who dont have a proper Authorized service stations . Yes, if they have it, i am not sure that they will be able to make profits or anything. They are good at quality. Remember Mercs were pulled with donkeys. Lamborghinis (VW's) were pulled with donkeys. But no Ferrari VW & merc owners, feeling bad aah? huh.

They compromise on FE but they will not compromise on some of the important stuff.

oops, now coming to the point. 50 service stations. 2 in each big city or capital, one in a normal state capital like bhopal. This action should give them decent volumes. nothing more nothing less.

Once they have the base volume, they could aspire high. but not without this. Starting a cafe without having not even a single service station. Its bad. your product may be the best. you may own ferrari. but you are not supposed to start cafes ignoring service stations.

My 2 cents. I know, many wont accept my word, but they are true.

[599gto]

Originally Posted by gemi_kk

They are the ones who have introduced using Fabric based bodies for cars which weigh light and perform the best. when it comes to branding, They own Ferrari, Chrysler, FIAT, Alfa, Jeep and other brands.
What is 'fabric based bodies', never heard of that?! Are you by any chance reffering to Carbon Fibre?

Yes they are Italians and they design the best Designs. any objections? have a look at LINEA which is a beauty queen which hardly sells 40 units a month.
Looks are subjective, the linea was good looking and fresh to me 4 years back, not anymore.

Yes, they are the ones who are bashed like hell by those who never ever driven their products. they are the ones who make driver centric cars, even if the market is going the other way.
Agree to you on that, the Punto's handling is better than any other hatch that i have driven.

They are the ones who make cars without compromising on some components. they are not VW, who give doors which close with a thud + the boot with a tinplate. They are not VW which gives a Engine guard made of plastic.
I own a Polo, a few friends own Ventos, Jettas, Passats. No tin foil anywhere, most manufacturers cant really beat the build quality of VW, I for one appreciate the thud everytime. Would like to know which VW is particular?

They are not Japanese, who make their cars with Tin Foil (Amul cold coffee can feels stronger) which give extrordinary FE. Man!! you are running on engine. yes, the engine will be strong because it has a body made of Tin foil.
That is exaggerating a little bit too much, I've just bought an ANHC, tough its not VW strong, it is more than acceptable, and the interior quality is better that the VW. You wouldn't want to talk about the interiors on the Fiats in India. The designing of the interiors on the Linea has been done well though! And engines, well the Japs do make the best Petrol engines in the market. And they are all high on reliability, have rarely heard a Toyota or a Honda breaking down, even on the forum, I think hardly any cases, anyone
?

They are the ones who give the best package in the existing market. Check the features of Punto Dynamic + the features of Swift VDI. you will get to know.
Punto sure is value for money, but nothing beats Maruti suzuki in India when it comes to trust and service network.
They are the only ones in the market who dont have a proper Authorized service stations . Yes, if they have it, i am not sure that they will be able to make profits or anything. They are good at quality. Remember Mercs were pulled with donkeys. Lamborghinis (VW's) were pulled with donkeys. But no Ferrari VW & merc owners, feeling bad aah? huh.
Dont know about Mercs, but I am sure the Lamborghini was a one off-case, they use the highest degree quality control!

oops, now coming to the point. 50 service stations. 2 in each big city or capital, one in a normal state capital like bhopal. This action should give them decent volumes. nothing more nothing less.
Not good enough for a market like India, I might be worng on this.

Once they have the base volume, they could aspire high. but not without this. Starting a cafe without having not even a single service station. Its bad. your product may be the best. you may own ferrari. but you are not supposed to start cafes ignoring service stations.
Brilliantly put!

My 2 cents. I know, many wont accept my word, but they are true.

My replies/ questions in bold.

Note from Team-BHP Support: Please do not reply to posts using bold text within a quoted post, as it leads to visual discomfort for readers. For the correct way to quote, please see this thread. Thanks

[volkman10]

Originally Posted by 599gto

My replies/ questions in bold.

+1. Agree to your points on VW. Comments should be made by the owners and not by perception.

Cheers!

[rohanjf]

With due respect, I think Gemi's term of 'tin foil' refers to the thickness of the steel used. No one disagrees that Asian manufacturers use thinner guage to save on costs and increase fuel efficiency. No one disagrees that just a thick metal sheet won't contribute to safety.

However, thicker steel combined with well designed crumple zones is safer than a thinner steel with the same crumple zones.

Anyways, this topic has been discussed numerous times earlier in many other threads.

I really hope Fiat does not improve the interior quality of 2014 Linea and Punto. For that matter, even in new SUV/MUVs. Why? Better interiors will cost more, and this will impact the pricing. Among European cars, the VW and Skoda do have much better interiors and fit/finish. But the impact on the cost is obvious. To keep the cost in check, some trade-off is required. Hence, 3-cylinder engines.

I hope Fiat continues to be a cheaper alternative to VW/Skoda (or even Ford). Those who prefer better interiors over NVH can go for VW/Skoda/Ford. Fiat will remain for those like me, who don't care much about interior quality, as long as there is no rattling. As far as ride quality is concerned, all Europeans are quite alike (including Ford here,as all Ford cars in India have their origin in Europe and not in US).

However, I hope Fiat don't compromise on the interiors of Jeep brand. Jeep has to be positioned as premium brand. I also wish Fiat launches Freemont/Journey (as a Jeep) in India. With 1.9 MJD, it sure can compete with Storme or XUV. I hope this is the C segment SUV they mentioned in the press release.

I was at KHT Motors in Bangalore to get my Palio MJD serviced (at 80000 km). They said KHT's showroom in Indiranagar will be a Fiat showroom from April. Also, they will set up a Fiat service centre somewhere around Whitefield (close to the current Tata-Fiat service centre). My car's servicing got delayed because only one row in the service centre is for Fiat, out of 4 rows (each row can take 6 cars). This problem will be solved after April. Moreover, I won't have to see any cab drivers fighting with service advisors about bill amount. Also, as the manager there mentioned, small things like car perfume won't be stolen from Fiat cars (apparently, service personnel don't do it, but cab drivers do).

[rameshnanda]

This thread is again slowly turning into Fiat vs other cars. This is really getting boring to hear again and again. Let us get off with this and discuss only about their disclosed future strategy please.

My answers.

What is 'fabric based bodies', never heard of that?! Are you by any chance reffering to Carbon Fibre?

Yes, Its carbon fibre. They are the ones who used it first in automobiles. Because of which they have the word Fabrika in the company name.

Looks are subjective, the linea was good looking and fresh to me 4 years back, not anymore.
Looks are subjective to me. If 4 year old Linea Looked good in the begining and now it looks boring, then what about Swift, Alto, 800, Indica, scorpio. According to your lines, there should be many haters to these cars, but they sell in Tons.

I own a Polo, a few friends own Ventos, Jettas, Passats. No tin foil anywhere, most manufacturers cant really beat the build quality of VW, I for one appreciate the thud everytime. Would like to know which VW is particular?
I meant, the quality of Doors is different to the quality of boot. The boot is made of lighter material. Some VW cars are good too. Even i like them. VW intentionally allowed some bugs in their cars. These bugs pop up once the car crosses some 70K odd KM this would cause some $$$$$ dent. cant prove it here, because it aint a math theorm, but This is true to VW SA's and SE sources. Some parts are meant to fail by this duration. Bitter truth. Sorry No offence meant to any VW owners. Oops, No Proof too.

That is exaggerating a little bit too much, I've just bought an ANHC, tough its not VW strong, it is more than acceptable, and the interior quality is better that the VW. You wouldn't want to talk about the interiors on the Fiats in India. The designing of the interiors on the Linea has been done well though! And engines, well the Japs do make the best Petrol engines in the market. And they are all high on reliability, have rarely heard a Toyota or a Honda breaking down, even on the forum, I think hardly any cases, anyone?
Reliability, FE and Weight of the car are inversly proportional. If a Splendor is run by a person who weighs 50KG. i am sure that it would give 85-90KMPL on a high way. This bike may last him atleast 1.5lakh KM. If the same bike is used by a person of 75-85KG, it wont last more than 60K in the best case. So weight matters when it comes to reliability.
When we say healthy, it means inside out. we cant call a person healthy if he has Big muscles and thin legs. There exists a balance, which should be maintained. As you said, Honda exterior is weak, interiors are much better. I feel it is not balaced. i dont say, and I dont mean Fiat cars are balanced too. but a bit closer to balance when compared to their competetors.

Punto sure is value for money, but nothing beats Maruti suzuki in India when it comes to trust and service network.
You are correct. Service network = Swift. But it doesnt mean that, they cant be beaten. No one suceeded with this, but yes with the current level of competetion, MS should come down by couple of notches. because, there are too many greedy companies entered india with some good looking cars.

Swift is value for money?
Swift ZDI onroad price + 50K will give me a VW vento TL which fits in C2 seg (ofcourse after considering discounts). Jump from B1 to C2 @ 50K?

I wrote in a Fiat strategy thread, and i compared FIAT with others. I believe that none of my comments were demeening other brands or so. yes, they are facts put in a different way, but never intended to hurt others feelings. So guys, lets discuss on their strategy.

If FIAT puts a service centre in my area, why should i be worried? i will buy one. 100's of People will see my car everyday in my area, some enquire about quality. if my feedback is good, atleast 5 may turn out to be FIAT owners. So Effectively 6 cars. If there are 50 service centres and 50 people like me, 300 cars will be rolling out of their shop. Not a great figure, but not an ugly start either.

If it is a Car, then it needs to have SERVICE SERVICE SERVICE
SPARES AVAILABILITY, SPARES AVAILABILITY, SPARES AVAILABILITY.

IF there is no service in an entire city, its as good as a city having no Doctors. I cant imagine with their deeds.

[nim_peter]

Could someone explain the marketing strategy here, I'm confused. If they bring the 1.6 MJD as an addition to existing models, will it really help their sales volumes? I'm not sure how many will go for it paying a premium. Can it be compared with Punto regular/90 hp or Ford Fiesta Classic/New model. I feel it would be a better plan if they completely stop the 1.3MJD and sell linea in only 1.6 version, where you stop people from buying a lower model car. Ofcourse pricing is very important here, maybe increase by 20-30K from the existing price. Just a thought, please correct me if I'm wrong.

[rohanjf]

Originally Posted by gemi_kk

My answers.

What is 'fabric based bodies', never heard of that?! Are you by any chance reffering to Carbon Fibre?

Yes, Its carbon fibre. They are the ones who used it first in automobiles. Because of which they have the word Fabrika in the company name.

Actually, the Fabbrica Italiani Automobili Torino was created in 1899, decades before carbon fibre was invented. Fabbrica has the same root as fabrication, which loosely means manufacture. I don't even think proper steel was used in first Fiat cars

[599gto]

Originally Posted by gemi_kk

My answers.

Yes, Its carbon fibre. They are the ones who used it first in automobiles. Because of which they have the word Fabrika in the company name.
They may have been the first, but today I dont much CF in any of the cars under the Fiat banner, for that matter even Ferrari doesn't use much CF in its cars, unlike Lamborghinis. Have no doubts, I am a die hard Ferrari follower! No Lambos for me

Looks are subjective to me. If 4 year old Linea Looked good in the begining and now it looks boring, then what about Swift, Alto, 800, Indica, scorpio. According to your lines, there should be many haters to these cars, but they sell in Tons.
Looks are subjective I said! I never said all four year old cars look boring to me, I think the Scorpio still looks better than most modern SUVs.

I meant, the quality of Doors is different to the quality of boot. The boot is made of lighter material. Some VW cars are good too. Even i like them. VW intentionally allowed some bugs in their cars. These bugs pop up once the car crosses some 70K odd KM this would cause some $$$$$ dent. cant prove it here, because it aint a math theorm, but This is true to VW SA's and SE sources. Some parts are meant to fail by this duration. Bitter truth. Sorry No offence meant to any VW owners. Oops, No Proof too.
Maybe I'll have to wait till my Polo gets that old. But I definitely dont think a manufacturer would intentionally allow bugs in its cars, that too of the time bomb variety!

Reliability, FE and Weight of the car are inversly proportional. If a Splendor is run by a person who weighs 50KG. i am sure that it would give 85-90KMPL on a high way. This bike may last him atleast 1.5lakh KM. If the same bike is used by a person of 75-85KG, it wont last more than 60K in the best case. So weight matters when it comes to reliability.
When we say healthy, it means inside out. we cant call a person healthy if he has Big muscles and thin legs. There exists a balance, which should be maintained. As you said, Honda exterior is weak, interiors are much better. I feel it is not balaced.i dont say, and I dont mean Fiat cars are balanced too. but a bit closer to balance when compared to their competetors.
No.1: y Do you mean to say the heavier a car, the less reliable it is? I dont think it holds true, and as far as FE is concerned, a lighter car gives more economy than a heavier car. There is a difference between being reliable and having a long life, that way any car can last innumerable number of kilometres and years with innumerable number of visits to the service centre.
No. 2: I never said that exteriors of MY ANHC are weak, if anything, its at-par with almost any other car in the segment. Infact it beats every other car in the segment on most aspects. Period.
I agree with the 'balanced car' part, I think that is what everybody wants but its hard to get.

Swift ZDI onroad price + 50K will give me a VW vento TL which fits in C2 seg (ofcourse after considering discounts). Jump from B1 to C2 @ 50K?
I said nothing aboutthe Swift being value for money, in fact i think the Swift is terribly overpriced, but its an all rounder for sure.
I wrote in a Fiat strategy thread, and i compared FIAT with others. I believe that none of my comments were demeening other brands or so. yes, they are facts put in a different way, but never intended to hurt others feelings. So guys, lets discuss on their strategy.
Neither were my replies written with an intention to bash Fiat, its just that as an owner of a VW and a Honda(a Japnese), I wanted to clear the misconceptions about them.

If FIAT puts a service centre in my area, why should i be worried? i will buy one. 100's of People will see my car everyday in my area, some enquire about quality. if my feedback is good, atleast 5 may turn out to be FIAT owners. So Effectively 6 cars. If there are 50 service centres and 50 people like me, 300 cars will be rolling out of their shop. Not a great figure, but not an ugly start either.

If it is a Car, then it needs to have SERVICE SERVICE SERVICE
SPARES AVAILABILITY, SPARES AVAILABILITY, SPARES AVAILABILITY.

IF there is no service in an entire city, its as good as a city having no Doctors. I cant imagine with their deeds.

My replies in Bold, I do not intend to compare Fiat with any brand. Lets stick to Fiats strategies, really looking forward to the Punto evo.

Note from Team-BHP Support: Please do not reply to posts using bold text within a quoted post, as it leads to visual discomfort for readers. For the correct way to quote, please see this thread. Thanks

Originally Posted by 599gto

My replies in Bold, I do not intend to compare Fiat with any brand. Lets stick to Fiats strategies, really looking forward to the Punto evo.

Mate!! Lets leave this here. It will not lead us anywhere.

What do you think, good strategy for FIAT to start a third innings?

Originally Posted by rohanjf

Actually, the Fabbrica Italiani Automobili Torino was created in 1899, decades before carbon fibre was invented. Fabbrica has the same root as fabrication, which loosely means manufacture. I don't even think proper steel was used in first Fiat cars

I am not very sure of this, Yes you have googled. but, this is either not correct or not complete.

I was told by a Guru, that FIAT was the first brand to use Fibre based materials in car. Only in specific areas To reduce weight and increase performance.

Need to google again.

[SUPERSPORT]

I know this is off topic, but since there has come a comparo between Fiat and VW, let me share my thoughts about two aspects. Build quality and interiors. I dont think VW uses tin foil like metals anywhere. I am speaking about my Polo here. At the same time it cannot match the tank like build quality of my Linea and there is no doubt about that. Polos shut lines are a lot better and uniform than my Linea. And regarding interiors the quality of the materials are definitely better in the Polo. But Lineas interiors are a lot better designed and far more user friendly. In the end we consumers have to choose whats important for us.

[wanderernomad]

Guys lol lets stop this from getting into a FIAT bashing. One thing all would agree is that FIAT has good products and yes kudos to them for not giving up. I for one stay a true FIAT fan and yes I do hesitate before buying their products which I absolutely love. But given all other things being equal I would prefer FIAT over many of the today manufacturers.

[nkrishnap]

Originally Posted by gemi_kk

If FIAT puts a service centre in my area, why should i be worried? i will buy one. 100's of People will see my car everyday in my area, some enquire about quality. if my feedback is good, atleast 5 may turn out to be FIAT owners. So Effectively 6 cars. If there are 50 service centres and 50 people like me, 300 cars will be rolling out of their shop. Not a great figure, but not an ugly start either.

If it is a Car, then it needs to have SERVICE SERVICE SERVICE
SPARES AVAILABILITY, SPARES AVAILABILITY, SPARES AVAILABILITY.

IF there is no service in an entire city, its as good as a city having no Doctors. I cant imagine with their deeds.

Mr. Enrico is already working overtime getting the Dealership and Service centers opened. They have already signed 56 LOI and the dealerships will be open in the next 100 days in about 30 cities. The services follow within a few days of opening the showrooms. Expect this to touch 100 by end of 2013. In Bangalore, Prerana motors (Vecto Motors), KHT Motors and Aadya Motors are opening the Showrooms in the next 60 days.

For spares and related things, they are coming with a CRM where they will be able to see what spares stock the dealers have and what proper management of the same. They are heading in the right direction.

Originally Posted by nim_peter

Could someone explain the marketing strategy here, I'm confused. If they bring the 1.6 MJD as an addition to existing models, will it really help their sales volumes? I'm not sure how many will go for it paying a premium. Can it be compared with Punto regular/90 hp or Ford Fiesta Classic/New model. I feel it would be a better plan if they completely stop the 1.3MJD and sell linea in only 1.6 version, where you stop people from buying a lower model car. Ofcourse pricing is very important here, maybe increase by 20-30K from the existing price. Just a thought, please correct me if I'm wrong.

The New Linea (might be Viaggio) would come in the 1.4 Tjet and 1.6 MJD versions. The existing Linea and Punto will get interior and exterior upgrades. Punto will get an Evo upgrade.

Originally Posted by SUPERSPORT

I know this is off topic, but since there has come a comparo between Fiat and VW, let me share my thoughts about two aspects. Build quality and interiors. I dont think VW uses tin foil like metals anywhere. I am speaking about my Polo here. At the same time it cannot match the tank like build quality of my Linea and there is no doubt about that. Polos shut lines are a lot better and uniform than my Linea. And regarding interiors the quality of the materials are definitely better in the Polo. But Lineas interiors are a lot better designed and far more user friendly. In the end we consumers have to choose whats important for us.

+1. The buyers need to know their priorities and go ahead with the purchases accordingly.

Source about Fiat things I posted, Mr. Enrico himself when I had a chat with him last Saturday.

[vb-saan]

Originally Posted by nkrishnap

Source about Fiat things I posted, Mr. Enrico himself when I had a chat with him last Saturday.

Thanks for the details. Any interim updates (2013) expected on the Linea or Punto? And do they have plans to start manufacturing the Linea TJet again?