[nkrishnap]

Originally Posted by KiloAlpha

Why does the Fiat Panda not figure on the list of cars for India? I would've thought it was a no-brainer to slot it below the Punto as the volume seller.

Pricing is the factor which is keeping FIAT away from the launching it here in India. The Panda 1.3 MJD costs around 11000 GBP. Even taking in account cheaper labour and localization, it would be relatively impossible to price it below Punto.

No doubt Panda would be a good product to be put on sale in India, but the price point takes away any advantage it would offer.

[Biraj]

Originally Posted by nkrishnap

Tjet will come in multiple variants including Active version.

Active version of T-jet? I though they will keep the NA petrol in Active and Dynamic variant, and the emotion variant will have the T-jet engine. In a diesel market, they shouldn't expect large volumes from a turbo-charged petrol and its buyers will prefer the creature comforts that T-jet+ used come with. There might be some buyers that will prefer to take the active variant and then spend the remaining 1.5-2 lacs at the Abart tuning shop (whenever that comes), still it might not be a significantly large number.

Launching T-jet in entry level variant at a point when they want to position it as a niche product targeted at enthusiasts, is a bit confusing. I hope they have done their research.

[nkrishnap]

Originally Posted by Biraj

Active version of T-jet? I though they will keep the NA petrol in Active and Dynamic variant, and the emotion variant will have the T-jet engine. In a diesel market, they shouldn't expect large volumes from a turbo-charged petrol and its buyers will prefer the creature comforts that T-jet+ used come with. There might be some buyers that will prefer to take the active variant and then spend the remaining 1.5-2 lacs at the Abart tuning shop (whenever that comes), still it might not be a significantly large number.

Launching T-jet in entry level variant at a point when they want to position it as a niche product targeted at enthusiasts, is a bit confusing. I hope they have done their research.

What they are intending to do is increase the reach for the Tjet. When Tjet was launched it was costlier than the diesel top end and it did not go well with the market. When they started offering the Tjet at 8.XX lakhs the stocks did find quite a few homes. This might have influenced in getting Tjet in more variants (lower priced) to increase the reach.

But whatever said and done, I think this will only dilute the Tjet brand as such.

[StarrySky]

Originally Posted by nkrishnap

But whatever said and done, I think this will only dilute the Tjet brand as such.

With T-jet being the petrol option for the all-new Linea in 2014, I think Fiat is not planning to keep T-jet as a "sub-brand" anyway.

If I remember correctly, an all-new Punto (based on the 2014 all-new Linea) is supposed to be launched in 2015. Does that mean that the Punto Evo launching in 2014 will be replaced just a year later?

[nkrishnap]

Originally Posted by StarrySky

With T-jet being the petrol option for the all-new Linea in 2014, I think Fiat is not planning to keep T-jet as a "sub-brand" anyway.

They should give the Multi air in the all new Linea instead of the same Tjet engine. That can definitely be a differentiating factor between classic and the new linea. Also the new Linea at higher price point definitely deserves the Multiair.

If I remember correctly, an all-new Punto (based on the 2014 all-new Linea) is supposed to be launched in 2015. Does that mean that the Punto Evo launching in 2014 will be replaced just a year later?

+1, its really confusing as to how this will be played out. Are they going take the classic and new model route as they are planning for Linea? The Evo should atleast be on sale with this upgrade, however which is not the case.

Also, eagerly awaiting to see if there is any change to gearbox. Get the C635 series gearbox which is in use else where in the world.

[vb-saan]

Originally Posted by nkrishnap

But whatever said and done, I think this will only dilute the Tjet brand as such.

If making it mainstream (rather than a niche product), I am all for that. IMO, they should keep the T-Jet across all variants as the only petrol option for both Linea and Punto.

[nkrishnap]

Originally Posted by vb-san

If making it mainstream (rather than a niche product), I am all for that. IMO, they should keep the T-Jet across all variants as the only petrol option for both Linea and Punto.

The key word here is "Only Petrol" option for the Linea which should have been the case right from when the Linea was launched way back in 2009.

[claxtoncorreya]

Originally Posted by nkrishnap

Pricing is the factor which is keeping FIAT away from the launching it here in India. The Panda 1.3 MJD costs around 11000 GBP. Even taking in account cheaper labour and localization, it would be relatively impossible to price it below Punto.

No doubt Panda would be a good product to be put on sale in India, but the price point takes away any advantage it would offer.

I think the Panda is priced below the Punto in the UK. Therefore Fiat should be able to manufacture the same in India at a good price point (read below the Punto). The problem will be the shape of the car for the price point at which it will sell. It will have to compete with the likes of i10 and Figo.

[puchoo]

Originally Posted by Biraj

Launching T-jet in entry level variant at a point when they want to position it as a niche product targeted at enthusiasts, is a bit confusing. I hope they have done their research.

Well if the idea is to be able to offer it ti enthusiasts but keep it affordable at the same time then thats fine , there will always be an option to go to the top end trim for people.

Originally Posted by nkrishnap

The key word here is "Only Petrol" option for the Linea which should have been the case right from when the Linea was launched way back in 2009.

Agreed , the NA engine was simply too slow and sluggish and did not do justice to the car resulting in the perceptions that were created. Mostly everyone would agree that this is the engine they should have come out with , or at the max definitely ensured that it was available as an option along with the NA.

Any more news on the arrival of the new T-Jet? The internet was buzzing around the end of Feb with this news and all seems to have died down now and we are only a few days away from April.

[sandeepmohan]

It will be good only for the enthusiast if they do a re launch for the Linea T Jet. Better still would be to provide the stock T Jet 113Bhp engine in the Grande Punto. This will be a affordable pocket rocket unlike the Abarth edition which may not find any takers.

The claimed fuel efficiency for the T Jet engine is something I have never managed to achieve. I have never tried driving in a manner that optimizes fuel consumption to check. Not that I care about it but for a person looking at a efficient petrol sedan, it is better you stick with the Honda. The economy offered by Honda's ivtec cannot be beaten. The T Jet engine in the Linea can barely do 9kmpl in a city cycle.

[puchoo]

This is definitely not the car to buy if one is looking at fuel economy and stretching those rupees to the maximum distance. If one goes for this car and then later is not happy with the economy then really it was a bad decision to begin with. On an another note , i know someone in office who has a T-Jet and he drives about 12 Km's each way ( home to office back home) , and he averages about 11 kmpl.

Originally Posted by sandeepmohan

The claimed fuel efficiency for the T Jet engine is something I have never managed to achieve. I have never tried driving in a manner that optimizes fuel consumption to check. Not that I care about it but for a person looking at a efficient petrol sedan, it is better you stick with the Honda. The economy offered by Honda's ivtec cannot be beaten. The T Jet engine in the Linea can barely do 9kmpl in a city cycle.

[KarthikK]

Launching T-Jet in Active and dynamic variants is pardoned by me, since it is a lot better (for taking the fight to the competition) than providing that boring 1.4L 90PS Fire engine which really needs a lot of coaxing to move forward. I don't mind them providing the current 115PS T-Jet engine in the Active and dynamic versions, but on one condition. They should then offer the 155 PS Euro-spec Linea T-Jet (sold in Brazil and Turkey) as the top-end offering , equivalent of what was T-Jet plus - the high-end enthusiast's car of the C-segment. As a buyer, I wouldn't mind paying a couple of lacs extra if they offer that variant for me.

+1 to what sandeepmohan said. They need to get the 115 PS t-jet engine into the Punto as well. That should take care of the Polo 1.6 and all other "hot hatches". Only issue is the target audience which will continually go down as long as this petrol-diesel price gap continues.

My variant line-up would be something like this, if I were to design it :

Punto petrol :
Active, Dynamic - 1.4 Fire (89 BHP)
Emotion - choice of 1.4 Fire 89HP or 1.4 T-Jet 114HP
Sport (petrol option) - 1.4 T-Jet (114HP) with 'sporty' bells and whistles like decals, sport pedals, blah blah
Abarth SuperSport version - 1.4 T-Jet (180HP)
* get rid of 1.2 engine option

Punto Diesel :
Active, Dynamic - 1.3 MultiJet 75HP
Emotion - choice of 1.3 MultiJet 75HP or 90HP
Sport (diesel) - 1.6 MultiJet 120HP

Linea Petrol :
Active, Dynamic - 1.4 T-Jet (114 HP)
Emotion (or T-Jet+) - choice of 1.4 T-Jet 114HP or 155 HP
* get rid of 90PS Fire engine from Linea completely.

Linea Diesel :
Active, Dynamic - 1.3 MultiJet 90HP
Emotion - choice of 1.3 MultiJet 90HP or 1.6 MultiJet 120HP

This way, people who want the efficiency and the top-end variant get to choose the emotion lower engine option. For outright enthusiasts, the cream of the offerings can be chosen based on individual requirements (petrol v/s diesel). All this is said keeping cost considerations aside for the moment, so please don't flame me that the cost is not going to work out, etc.

[sandeepmohan]

Originally Posted by puchoo

This is definitely not the car to buy if one is looking at fuel economy and stretching those rupees to the maximum distance. On an another note , i know someone in office who has a T-Jet and he drives about 12 Km's each way and he averages about 11 kmpl.

The point I was trying to drive was, small turbo charged petrol engines are not really fuel efficient. The manufacturer ends up plonking these tiny engines in cars as heavy as a Linea and Jetta and report hatch back efficiency. This is impossible. These small engines are over worked in large, heavy cars. They come into their own only on the highway and that is only if you drive sane. They are up to the task when it comes to delivering power that can equal or better larger engines. On the efficiency front, they fail miserably. My previous car, a 10 year old Ford Ikon 1.6 was more efficient that my Linea.

As for the person you know who managed better efficiency with his T Jet, I have heard of this too. It all depends on the city traffic conditions. In the city I live, more than the bumper to bumper traffic, it is the speed breakers that make things worse. I have to deal with about 24 speed breakers on a 14km commute to work. This goes against achieving any kind of efficiency and ruins your drive.

[puchoo]

I agree , my point was only on that one should know that this is not a fuel friendly car and not have expectations otherwise.

Originally Posted by sandeepmohan

The point I was trying to drive was, small turbo charged petrol engines are not really fuel efficient. The manufacturer ends up plonking these tiny engines in cars as heavy as a Linea and Jetta and report hatch back efficiency. This is impossible. These small engines are over worked in large, heavy cars. They come into their own only on the highway and that is only if you drive sane. They are up to the task when it comes to delivering power that can equal or better larger engines. On the efficiency front, they fail miserably. My previous car, a 10 year old Ford Ikon 1.6 was more efficient that my Linea.

As for the person you know who managed better efficiency with his T Jet, I have heard of this too. It all depends on the city traffic conditions. In the city I live, more than the bumper to bumper traffic, it is the speed breakers that make things worse. I have to deal with about 24 speed breakers on a 14km commute to work. This goes against achieving any kind of efficiency and ruins your drive.

[sandeepmohan]

Originally Posted by KarthikK

* get rid of 1.2 engine option

From one T Jet owner to another, don't underestimate this engine. I have had loads of fun with this puny 1.2l in a Punto. Get it past 100Kmph (He he....cause thats your first task) and you start noticing that it is actually quite effortless for something at 68bhp. The 1.2l Punto actually flies past the ton. Refinement is another class leading aspect about this 8 valve engine. The top end is surely limited due to the capacity, power constraint and weight of the Punto but you don't really feel it struggling as much as when crawling in the city.