[nkrishnap]

Originally Posted by desdemona

Case in point: the T-jet's the best in class petrol engine, hell it's better in the Linea than the 1.4 tsi is in the 17lakh rupee Jetta. Has it set Linea sales on fire, despite its legend rightly growing?

Agree to the point that Linea Tjet does make a very strong case for itself in its price range. However, I will have to disagree in comparing it to the 1.4 TSI. The TSI engine is quite good in its own right. For that matter the 1.2 TSI Vento with the DSG gearbox is cracker of a combination.

Fiat should look at getting a new engine in the form of 1.2 tjet or even multiair and the 1.6 MJD in their product range. By introducing these Fiat will only be taking the game forward.

On the sales front the polo and vento are doing not numbers which they would have liked to. However, that has not stopped VW in getting the TSI dsg combo and the 1.6 tdi in polo.

[desdemona]

Originally Posted by nkrishnap

Agree to the point that Linea Tjet does make a very strong case for itself in its price range. However, I will have to disagree in comparing it to the 1.4 TSI. The TSI engine is quite good in its own right. For that matter the 1.2 TSI Vento with the DSG gearbox is cracker of a combination.

Fiat should look at getting a new engine in the form of 1.2 tjet or even multiair and the 1.6 MJD in their product range. By introducing these Fiat will only be taking the game forward.

On the sales front the polo and vento are doing not numbers which they would have liked to. However, that has not stopped VW in getting the TSI dsg combo and the 1.6 tdi in polo.

I agree. The 1.4 (and the 1.2) tsi is a great engine, no dispute, I was only refrring to its application in the big, expensive Jetta relative to the T-jet's in the Linea.

All I am saying is that engines are not the solution to the sales growth problem. In any case, at some point the new engines or versions of current ones will come.

I was and am considering replacing our old faithful, the Palio, with the Avventura diesel, next year. I, at least, am not going to be fussing about cubic capacity.

[Sommos]

Originally Posted by finneyp

Need more details on this, any link where we can read the full interview/statement from Mike Manley?

Here you go :

Outlining India plans, Manley said the group's plant at Ranjangoan in Maharashtra will roll out six models across three platforms by 2018, up from the current three models from a single platform. The facility will produce six types of engines from the current three.

By 2018 the group expects to have a vehicle production capacity of 2,45,000 units annually, compared with 1,35,000 at present.

While the total engine capacity will remain the same at 3,50,000 units, for transmission units, it will go up to 3,30,000 by 2018 from the current level of 3,00,000 units.

The employee count will more than double to 5,000 from 2,250 at present.

Fiat Group Auto Sales India Pvt Ltd will have 220 dealers by 2018, up from 100 in 2013.

The Source : Auto NDTV

Originally Posted by Sommos

Here you go :

Outlining India plans, Manley said the group's plant at Ranjangoan in Maharashtra will roll out six models across three platforms by 2018, up from the current three models from a single platform. The facility will produce six types of engines from the current three.

By 2018 the group expects to have a vehicle production capacity of 2,45,000 units annually, compared with 1,35,000 at present.
Auto NDTV[/url]

Thanks Sommos for some positive news.
I bought my sport in 2006. Since then i hear one or the other news, which sound like what the quoted webpage says. It never happened in the past 8 years.

I would really love to see them launching new models and want them to gain some significant market share. At least wanna see them smoke out skoda in # of car sales as they are much better than those germans when it comes to sales experience and service.

I wanna buy another lovely car from them. But not with their current level of market sales. I do not want to be the one owning an odd car, with atrocious resale value and service support.

[vibbs]

Well on our recent trip to ARAI, I saw a camouflaged Avventura parked behind a current Punto. Frankly speaking, viewing the two together, there doesn't seem to be much of a size advantage with the Avventura, even with the bigger tyres and increased GC. So I am not sure what extra does an Avventura provide over a Punto, specially considering the fact that current Punto already has some decent GC.

Now if they bring the Tjet with Avventura, well that's a different thing altogether.

[selfdrive]

Originally Posted by vibbs

Now if they bring the Tjet with Avventura, well that's a different thing altogether.

I agree with you on the sizing. I spotted a camouflaged Avventura on Paud road yesterday evening.
My 8 year old son said it is just a punto with the wheel outside like the Tata Safari.

In any case, the extended delay is killing whatever little buzz they had managed to create. If it is just another Punto, only the engine options or interiors can save it. Probably both are needed!

[S_U_N]

Originally Posted by selfdrive

I agree with you on the sizing. I spotted a camouflaged Avventura on Paud road yesterday evening.
My 8 year old son said it is just a punto with the wheel outside like the Tata Safari.

In any case, the extended delay is killing whatever little buzz they had managed to create. If it is just another Punto, only the engine options or interiors can save it. Probably both are needed!

Ah.. so, the vehicle I saw in white and black (on Nagar road) the other day was an Avventura . It seemed like a Punto-refresh or something to me.

[selfdrive]

Originally Posted by S_U_N

Ah.. so, the vehicle I saw in white and black (on Nagar road) the other day was an Avventura . It seemed like a Punto-refresh or something to me.

The punto refresh is what is called a different car. I have spotted it a month or so ago on Nagar road.

From what I could see externally, the only difference seemed the spare tyre and roof rails
there will be other things like the cladding etc, but a lot will be learnt only after the launch. I hope there is a lot to wait for!

[desdemona]

Originally Posted by vibbs

Well on our recent trip to ARAI, I saw a camouflaged Avventura parked behind a current Punto. Frankly speaking, viewing the two together, there doesn't seem to be much of a size advantage with the Avventura, even with the bigger tyres and increased GC. So I am not sure what extra does an Avventura provide over a Punto, specially considering the fact that current Punto already has some decent GC.

Now if they bring the Tjet with Avventura, well that's a different thing altogether.

Agreed about the (1.2?) T-jet on the Avventura. Though the 1.4 Fire petrol's pretty good on the Punto.

BUT here's the thing: I suspect Fiat India doesn't particularly care whether you buy the facelifted Punto or this faux-SUV/CUV (whose, to be fair now, cladding et al look fab!).

I guess the idea is to add some pizzaz to the brand, now that the time-consuming setting-up of independent dealers/ASS has proceeded along a fair way (120+ dealers so far).

The Punto has been selling very decently (800 or so) in this downbeat market, albeit with discounts, so Fiat India with the Avventura and the facelifted Punto can maybe hope to double that figure?

Still, here's the notable thing about the Avventura: its Indian origins.

Fiat's global five-year plan shows the Avventura as a major sub-brand globally, with an all-new one on a different B-platform coming globally in 2016. I figure that it'll be a well-priced, watered-down version of the India-made Jeep C-suv (the terrific Renegade?) they have committed to for 2016. Which means it will be much longer and wider (even than the Duster, its main global competitor).

Needless to say: either that 2016 Avventura or the Jeep will be my next car, to replace the old workhorse Palio. Long-range purchase planning, OR the pleasures of deferred gratification?!!

[JayPrashanth]

Originally Posted by desdemona

Agreed about the (1.2?) T-jet on the Avventura. Though the 1.4 Fire petrol's pretty good on the Punto.

BUT here's the thing: I suspect Fiat India doesn't particularly care whether you buy the facelifted Punto or this faux-SUV/CUV (whose, to be fair now, cladding et al look fab!).

I guess the idea is to add some pizzaz to the brand, now that the time-consuming setting-up of independent dealers/ASS has proceeded along a fair way (120+ dealers so far).

The Punto has been selling very decently (800 or so) in this downbeat market, albeit with discounts, so Fiat India with the Avventura and the facelifted Punto can maybe hope to double that figure?

Still, here's the notable thing about the Avventura: its Indian origins.

Fiat's global five-year plan shows the Avventura as a major sub-brand globally, with an all-new one on a different B-platform coming globally in 2016. I figure that it'll be a well-priced, watered-down version of the India-made Jeep C-suv (the terrific Renegade?) they have committed to for 2016. Which means it will be much longer and wider (even than the Duster, its main global competitor).

Needless to say: either that 2016 Avventura or the Jeep will be my next car, to replace the old workhorse Palio. Long-range purchase planning, OR the pleasures of deferred gratification?!!

The C-Segment SUV is not the Renegade. It will be a Jeep Compass/Patriot replacement. The Renegade is NOT coming to India.

Also, about Mr Mike Manley's statements you have referred to in your previous posts, many things that he said at the press conference on December 6th, 2012, have been shelved.

Therefore, too much isn't to be read from previous statements. As things stand today, India is low priority for Fiat India and the whole shebang about our country becoming a major export hub for the Jeep brand's (B & C SUVs) is old talk.

For future discussions, the recently released Fiat-Chrysler strategy that is applicable to the APAC market will serve as a better reference point.

Cheers,

Jay

[desdemona]

Hi, thanks for the salutary, skeptical comment!

The Mike Manley quote was not from 2012, it was from the APAC section of ChryslerFiat's very recent global plan announcement.

Other than a change in timelines (caused by the depreciation of the rupee and the slowdown) for the launch of Jeep, they are still holding to what he said in 2012. Jeep WILL be launched early-mid next year. They are more or less sticking to the Fiat announcement made in 2012 (except, so far, the promise of the 1.6 mjd).

Is the C-SUV to be made in Ranjangaon for a 2016 launch 'C' by US standards or 'C' by Indian size standards? That is not clear. If the latter, then it could still be the Renegade, no?

I disagree about India being low priority for Fiat Chrysler. They appear slow and indifferent only because the time-consuming business of settingup independent dealerships and ASS has been underway, as also relaunching the brand ('Make the move' etc). The new Linea is out, and Avventura et al are coming soon. India-made Abarth Punto at delicious prices repeatedly confirmed, too, for 2015.

They are right to not bring in any all-new cars/platforms/engines, till the ASS and the brand image do not recover further. And, if they are to be believed, relying on Jeep to cultivate the premium end of the market: the mass sub-D segment is a brutal place in India currently, with everyone bleeding (except Hyundai). Meanwhile, it is heartening to note that the Ranjangaon manufacturing JV with Tata is making decent profits, with the Tata Zest and Bolt to be made there too? Fiat exports only a few few fully built-up cars to Australia, S Africa etc, but is a big exporter of components, engines and transmissions, I gather.

As for me personally, I am very keen to see, with the wallet ready, what the two all-new India-made launches for 2016 that they've promised will be, one Fiat, one Jeep.

[mallumowgli]

Originally Posted by JayPrashanth

The C-Segment SUV is not the Renegade. It will be a Jeep Compass/Patriot replacement. The Renegade is NOT coming to India.

From what I've read, there is no replacement for Jeep Compass and the Renegade shall be the smallest Jeep. So in a way, the Renegade will be the Compass/Patriot replacement

@desdemona : You are one hell of an optimist, let me tell you that

[volkman10]

Originally Posted by desdemona

Is the C-SUV to be made in Ranjangaon for a 2016 launch 'C' by US standards or 'C' by Indian size standards? That is not clear. If the latter, then it could still be the Renegade, no?

Renegade has been ruled out for India as of now as per their released portfolio.

[desdemona]

Originally Posted by mallumowgli

From what I've read, there is no replacement for Jeep Compass and the Renegade shall be the smallest Jeep. So in a way, the Renegade will be the Compass/Patriot replacement

@desdemona : You are one hell of an optimist, let me tell you that

Ha! Man, it's just that I've found over MANY years of owning Fiats, my Dad owning a couple of Tata-s, friends owning Fords/Skoda-s, that too many in the Indian car market are too hard on some companies, too-risk-averse/'pessimistic' about them.

Also, I admire Sergio Marchionne greatly, and very much like what he and Mike Manley et al are coming up with, usually successfully, in very adverse economic circumsatnces. As i said in an earlier post, I have and will happily bet on Fiat India, if they keep 'making the moves'.

[deoelect]

FIAT visited our office yesterday with the new Linea and Punto. The new Linea certainly feels different(positively!) as compared to the older one. I also enquired about the release dates of the refreshed Punto and the Avventura. The SA quoted December for the Avventura and was not sure about the Punto dates.

The perennial question - He was not aware about the engine options on the Avventura and said that even the dealerships haven't been communicated about them yet.