[antz.bin]

Originally Posted by motorworks

Diesel hatch back customers are not looking at the extra 15 bhp in any case.

Who gets to decide this bit? Just because Punto 90HP doesn't do too well doesn't mean Vista 90hp won't have any takers. Just take a look at the kind of numbers the only other 90bhp Diesel Hatchback (i20) is doing and then tell me if a Diesel Hatchback customer is not looking for additional power over the 58-78 that a Micra/Ritz/Figo/Liva/Sail/Beat offer. These cars, incidentally, get comfortably outsold by the much more expensive i20 month after month after month.

[Marlon]

Originally Posted by motorworks

I beg to differ from a lot of you here. The vista 90 is not going to ramp up the existing numbers at all. Diesel hatch back customers are not looking at the extra 15 bhp in any case. If "power" was the criteria, figo would not be outselling the vista.

I feel the Manza dash will be the key point rather than extra 15 hp to ramp up existing numbers.

[hiren.mistry]

Originally Posted by Marlon

I feel the Manza dash will be the key point rather than extra 15 hp to ramp up existing numbers.

quite agree with you here. When I got my Punto earlier this year I told the TATA SA, launch the Vista with Manza's dashboard console and I will happily buy it over the Punto.

[VishnuNarayanan]

Tata Vista 90HP variant can be considered as a VFM offering from Tata for all those performance enthusiasts with a tight budget. It would surely sell in good numbers. The present generations of Tata Vista and Manza cars are build up to standards and the customer oriented moves from the Indian manufacturer deserves appreciation.

[revv_maniac]

Originally Posted by revv_maniac

1 doubt though - Does it have a MID now like Manza as it carries forward its dashboard ? as there will be a space for the MID, now i would not want it to be ugly empty.

Cheers,
Chaos

Is there any updates on this ? any interior pics ?

[zenren]

Originally Posted by revv_maniac

Is there any updates on this ? any interior pics ?

Refer link from HKS's post below. Vista gets MID from Manza as well.

Originally Posted by HKS

The brochure is leaked. Check this out. http://www.cardekho.com/india-car-ne...eaked-9339.htm

[wolg]

It is good to see new options added by TATA but after owning a VISTA , i feel it needs better brakes and handling than a more powerful engine. Anything over 100 and I have prayer on my lips.

[bblost]

Originally Posted by wolg

It is good to see new options added by TATA but after owning a VISTA , i feel it needs better brakes and handling than a more powerful engine. Anything over 100 and I have prayer on my lips.

I test drove the Vista 75 today. This was in a variant equipped with ABS.

I took her to almost 80 kmph and slammed on the brakes.
The brakes were perfect. Maintained the line and stopped perfectly.

This particular car had been driven over 6k kms.

[DieselAddikt]

Originally Posted by wolg

It is good to see new options added by TATA but after owning a VISTA , i feel it needs better brakes and handling than a more powerful engine. Anything over 100 and I have prayer on my lips.

No offense, but something about this statement does not feel right.

Assuming that your driving skills are average or above, it must be either that you were driving on a really bad road or the car is defective in some way. Vista is stable till 120, beyond which it is your skill at work. At 100, the car is stable and feels at home. Even the brakes are adequate for that speed (100). I am saying this because I have covered more that 60K kms in a Vista and another another 7K in a Swift. So I know the difference. Of course, if you compare Vista at 100kmph to a Laura at 100kmph, then you have a point there.

[teamveevee]

Originally Posted by motorworks

And there has to be just one more variant-The CS based on the older indica and that too till the newer manza CS arrives. If they dont let go off their decade old cars like sumo and the indica,customers will not perceive them as a brand they want to own..

I think even TM agrees that there are so many variants for each platform. It is not only confusing to customers, it is harder for TM to support. So expect Tata to stream line the variants by getting rid of the non-selling variants. This could be one of the high priority item in the new MDs list before new launches and products. Standardization on nomenclature was the first step in this direction.

[rock75]

Somehow I feel that tata strategy might actually work this time, A Vista CR4 (at TDI prices) for customers with limited budget, Vista 75 (they might discount it once 90 bhp is launched) for those that want fiat engine and Vista 90 for those that want extra power at low price. I am sure they were testing the CR4 in indica Ev2 before introducing it in Vista range so that there is no bad news like with DICOR. As far as number of variants go they can reduce that to two for each type.

Now if they can ensure quality & reliability, which Karl Slym has singled out as a focus area Tata can regain market share it has lost to others.

Now Manza range can also gain the volumes with launch of Manza CS at around 6 lacs. A lot of customers overlook Manza because it is too long to drive and park in congested cities. I don't know what is taking Tata so long to build it?


ps. I'm no marketing expert, this is just what i feel as a customer who would like an Indian company to do well!

[Sridhar K]

ABS equipped Manza has pretty good brakes. I rate the breaks of my earlier Manza much better than my new Swift ZDI. Manza is a neutral handler upto 120kmph and guess a 90hp vista (with abs available on both variants) would be equally good in both braking, straight line stability, power delivery. Agree with a few more posters that more than the 90bhp, the Manza dashboard may be very well received.

The latest version perhaps is the best Vista till date. While it is appreciable that Tata has done this, question is whether it is too late and whether the new offering makes commercial sense. How many would buy Vista for the additional 15bhp leaving tbhp and other/auto enthusiast alike? While the 7+ lakhs OTR on Chennai makes it VFM when compared to a Swift, it is costly against Figo Titanium by a huge degree which hs better city driveability, handling, better brand image, decent space, lower cost of ownership for first three years. Tata seems to position Vista as a competition against Swift and loosing the battle to likes of Figo and Liva today with SAIL joining the party. It is what they did with Aria against Fortuner but the market perceives it as a Innova alternative and failed.

[Balaji31582]

Originally Posted by Sridhar K

The latest version perhaps is the best Vista till date. While it is appreciable that Tata has done this, question is whether it is too late and whether the new offering makes commercial sense. How many would buy Vista for the additional 15bhp leaving tbhp and other/auto enthusiast alike? While the 7+ lakhs OTR on Chennai makes it VFM when compared to a Swift, it is costly against Figo Titanium by a huge degree which hs better city driveability, handling, better brand image, decent space, lower cost of ownership for first three years. Tata seems to position Vista as a competition against Swift and loosing the battle to likes of Figo and Liva today with SAIL joining the party. It is what they did with Aria against Fortuner but the market perceives it as a Innova alternative and failed.

Sorry for being little bit Out off topic. When I almost thought of booking punto 90hp sometime last year, the reasons where not only the 90hp, but also the VGT that gives more linear power delivery with a better mileage. Yes, 90hp boasts of better mileage than 76HP. Also the NVH of 90hp during my test drive I found was well controlled than the 76HP. If the same is inherited to Vista, then why not the 90hp? Even though I bought a chevy diesel that time due to financial constraints, I am a big fan of FIAT diesel and I had a liking for TATA motors after test driving a worn out indigo ecS. Even the indigo eCS wore a Bridgestone tyres unlike other companies.I hope TATA under karl slym refines its quality,strategy and whatelse to come as a close competitor to hyundai if at all Maruti . On a similar note, the recent observations show that Figo and Ritz after their facelift have a slight decrease in their numbers.Might be my observations would also be wrong.But thats what I felt.

[motorworks]

Originally Posted by antz.bin

Who gets to decide this bit? Just because Punto 90HP doesn't do too well doesn't mean Vista 90hp won't have any takers. Just take a look at the kind of numbers the only other 90bhp Diesel Hatchback (i20) is doing and then tell me if a Diesel Hatchback customer is not looking for additional power over the 58-78 that a Micra/Ritz/Figo/Liva/Sail/Beat offer. These cars, incidentally, get comfortably outsold by the much more expensive i20 month after month after month.

I agree that the i20 outsells a lot of VFM diesel hatchbacks. But incidentally the swift which boasts of just 75 bhp is the top seller. Yes, there is this huge hype around the swift and it probably sells more than it deserves. So your analogy of more power, better sales is not something I agree to. The fact is that i20 is a very popular car for its features more than anything else. I dont have the break up of petrol vs diesel sales of the i20, but I can guarantee that the sales of petrol:diesel in the case of i20 may be tilted towards petrol rather than diesel or may be they are very close. If you compare that to say the ratio of the figo or the ritz, you will see that the diesels dominate completely. Again the reason for this is simply that the i20 diesel is far more expensive than other diesel hatches.
Secondly, even if more power is offered for less money, customers dont fall for it. Classic example is the manza and dzire. Manza 90bhp VGT and dzire 75bhp FGT and look at their difference in sales. It depends which brand does it. At least in India. If Maruti did a 90bhp diesel swift and priced it 30 or 40k more than their regular one, I'm sure there will be takers. But it would still be miniscule compared to the 75 bhp version.

Lastly, fiat's 75 bhp MJD is got enough power which is good enough to satisfy the masses. I have owned a dzire a for 4 years and I never felt that it wasnt quick enough. Yes, it was my first car and I did not have high standards, but isnt that the case with most B+ diesel hatch back buyers who are first time buyers as well?

I'm of the firm belief that majority of the B+ diesel hatch customers would not look at power as one of their top 3 criterias. Brand, After sales/ service & Re-sale value are the top 3. And that is why the swift is such a huge success.

[motorworks]

Originally Posted by Marlon

I feel the Manza dash will be the key point rather than extra 15 hp to ramp up existing numbers.

Manza itself hasnt done all that well compared to say the Dzire or even the Etios. Yes, the normal dash is not going to turn away customers like the center one did, but will it be the main cause for improved sales, I dont think so.