[man_and_machine]

Drove the V-D today. A very good city car. Here are some observations.

1. Driver ergonomics: Just a bit above average, between good and average. Why: A bit upright position is best suited for the car. Once you close the door the seat adjustment lever is hard to reach, there is little space between the seat and the door. The adjustment is best done with the doors opened. At a signal after a considerable drive in the traffic, if you want to change the drive posture a bit its difficult. Seat support is average, the rear support is thin and you can feel that, especially of you have experienced another good car. No electrical adjustment of the mirrors, very difficult to adjust the left one, car is wide you will have to really bend over and change. Again if you have a stupid driver behind you with high beams on and you just want to change the angle by 5 deg to avoid full glare. Its very tough. Rest of the ergonomics are in place. Thigh support is good. The new seat head rests are good. Missing left hand support, but can live without that.

[sups]

Originally Posted by mroptimist

At that time I complained to Amana Toyota Malappuram about sagging of rear suspension under full load. My Etios, which has covered 27,400km hasn't faced any major issues till now. At full load my car used to scrape speed brakers in Bangalore. When I complained to them, the concerned person told me that Toyota has designed new rear suspension (which comes as standard in the new Etios) and it will not be replaced under warranty.

Not sure about the new rear suspension. But to avoid sagging under full load, they gladly add "spacers" free of cost. They have done the same to my Liva as well.

[mroptimist]

Originally Posted by sups

Not sure about the new rear suspension. But to avoid sagging under full load, they gladly add "spacers" free of cost. They have done the same to my Liva as well.

I had told them the same but they said that it's not provided from Toyota but it's a dealership thing and they didn't have it. Perhaps it was a ploy to get some money from me?

But never the less I had ordered the rear suspension (shocks only and not the entire assembly) and it is supposed to arrive at the dealership tomorrow.

My car's 30k service is due on Wednesday 27th March and I am scheduled to get the replacement done along with it.

Will post details of service and rear shocks replacement on 27th.

Thanks.

[swiftnfurious]

Originally Posted by mroptimist

I had told them the same but they said that it's not provided from Toyota but it's a dealership thing and they didn't have it. Perhaps it was a ploy to get some money from me?..

Looks to me like one. When Nippon is doing these changes free of cost, why can't Amana?

Originally Posted by mroptimist

...But never the less I had ordered the rear suspension (shocks only and not the entire assembly) and it is supposed to arrive at the dealership tomorrow...

I suggest you hold getting the work done and call up / email Toyota about these updates. You might save the money. Rather than the money, it's about the ethics of the dealership.

[man_and_machine]

Originally Posted by man_and_machine

Drove the V-D today..Here are some observations.

Contd, from yesterday's post.

2. Rear bench comfort: Average. Again, a lot of the view depends on what is your previous experience. If this your first upgrade from a hatch then the inner space will great you, again if you come from i20 you will have doubts on the comfort, not space. The rear bench does not get a hand rest in the facelift. There is enough space to accomodate it, however its a miss. The seat is thin and you get a taxi rear seat feeling. The glass area is good, actually a bit more for city driving conditions.

3. Drivability: between good and average. There is not much change in the driveability of the diesel. On the city roads, it feels a bit light in handling. Lane changes feel light, for a driver only drive, the drive is very peppy, light. For 4 people drive, the car is quite planted, but still it has a lightless to it. A lot of this has nothing to do with the facelift, but when you go to the showroom and want to buy the facelift, I wholistic view might help.

4. On the facelift parts: For a car in this segment the facelift has definately brought this closer to competition. The plush-ness of the Manza is not available, but this is car that will be considered. The Q of the big T is behind the car.

5. Emotional buying: For Etios with the facelift might draw more people, however in the showroom the presence of the other big brothers of the Etios is what will have a bigger impact on the buying. When you look at the stable, the feeling will be a resolve to buy the other big guys sitting there and however for budget reasons you might want to buy this younger sibling. There is always a like-ability of buying something from the stable of the other bigger guys. This is something that Manza does not have.

[amalji]

Originally Posted by swiftnfurious

Looks to me like one. When Nippon is doing these changes free of cost, why can't Amana?

Originally Posted by mroptimist

But never the less I had ordered the rear suspension (shocks only and not the entire assembly) and it is supposed to arrive at the dealership tomorrow.

I had a discussion with Nippon Toyota, Kalamassery on it. They mentioned that while the front suspensions are replaced free of cost, the directive regarding rear suspension is to replace at a cost for customers who need it. Yes, the car does sag when fully loaded and does have an impact on ground clearance ( as explained on my ownership thread ). But, it doesn't create much of a hassle for me. I would prefer the soft suspensions on the rear especially since, I don't get the thud sound free along with it as in the case of front suspensions.

Front suspensions replacement is a must do for old model Etios owners.
The rear should be done only if really required ( If you stay in a place with really bad roads and has the habit of travelling with 5 adults and luggage ).

Originally Posted by man_and_machine

The rear bench does not get a hand rest in the facelift. There is enough space to accomodate it, however its a miss.

They did provide it as an accessory though. And I like this option better because in most cases the foldable arm rests reduces the back comfort of the 5th passenger.

Originally Posted by man_and_machine

5. Emotional buying: For Etios with the facelift might draw more people, however in the showroom the presence of the other big brothers of the Etios is what will have a bigger impact on the buying.

More than the presence of the big brothers, it's the proven record of reliability and durability of the big brothers that's gonna impact it. Literally, this is the Diesel sedan/hatch with the cheapest maintenance cost and by a very long margin.

One thing that the new launch has done to the old customers ( like me ) is the increase in resale value. My friend ( Vinu ) will be selling his old Liva ( probably, he is still in 2 minds whether to go for the new Liva or stick with the old one ) for 5.9 lakhs ( He had bought the Liva GD 1 year, 2 months back for 6.1 lakhs on the road price ). Just 20,000 depriciation after 1 year of usage is great. I also thought about changing the car for the new model. Then decided against it. Decided to take the harder route.
That's to research more on the technical changes on the new model that makes the NVH so much better and make the changes accordingly. I got a good contact in Toyota for discussing these stuffs as well.

[sups]

Originally Posted by amalji

One thing that the new launch has done to the old customers ( like me ) is the increase in resale value. My friend ( Vinu ) will be selling his old Liva ( probably, he is still in 2 minds whether to go for the new Liva or stick with the old one ) for 5.9 lakhs ( He had bought the Liva GD 1 year, 2 months back for 6.1 lakhs on the road price ). Just 20,000 depriciation after 1 year of usage is great.

This is too good to be true. Is the 5.9L quoted price by toyota themselves in case of exchange? I thought the new launch would make the resale price very pathetic for the old model?

[amalji]

Originally Posted by sups

This is too good to be true. Is the 5.9L quoted price by toyota themselves in case of exchange?

No, it's not from Toyota. It's via ad. He asked for 6 lakhs, the buyer agreed for 5.9
The buyer is very informed as well. He is aware of all bugs in the Etios and even the suspension thud sound ( which was fixed by Toyota )

Originally Posted by sups

I thought the new launch would make the resale price very pathetic for the old model?

Not exactly. With the new model, the price also goes up. So, the resale for old model increases. This is the same phenomenon which happened with the Innovas as well. People who bought the Innova 2 years back will almost get the same price if they sell it today because of the increase in price of the newer models.
And buyers who come in for Toyota 2nd hand cars are mostly X-Toyota users who acknowledges the quality and durability of the "Made in Japan" D-4D engines & Transmission.

[mroptimist]

Originally Posted by amalji

I had a discussion with Nippon Toyota, Kalamassery on it. They mentioned that while the front suspensions are replaced free of cost, the directive regarding rear suspension is to replace at a cost for customers who need it. Yes, the car does sag when fully loaded and does have an impact on ground clearance ( as explained on my ownership thread ).

I can confirm the above post by amalji. Today evening I called up Toyota Customer Care and they also told me that "spacers" were offered earlier as a temporary solution but after customer feedback (which was a negative one) they stopped and instead developed a new kit for rear suspension which is stiffer and hence does not sag so much on load.

For the present solution we have to pay around 3300/- INR plus labor charges for the complete set (which has an addition spring for G model) or 2000/- plus labor if it's a V/VX/VXD model, which does not require the additional spring.

I have decided to opt for the above upgrade because I very frequently travel with 5 people and significant luggage and it was becoming bothersome for me.

[chncar]

Originally Posted by amalji

And buyers who come in for Toyota 2nd hand cars are mostly X-Toyota users who acknowledges the quality and durability of the "Made in Japan" D-4D engines & Transmission.

Is the powertrain actually imported from Japan, or are you referring to the Japanese reputation for quality?

[amalji]

Originally Posted by chncar

Is the powertrain actually imported from Japan, or are you referring to the Japanese reputation for quality?

Etios diesel engine and transmission is imported from Japan.

Even with the Petrol variants , it's the same till 2012 starting. Then they started manufacturing in India. With diesel, they have not yet taken a decision on it though.

[subratasenn]

Originally Posted by amalji

That's to research more on the technical changes on the new model that makes the NVH so much better and make the changes accordingly. I got a good contact in Toyota for discussing these stuffs as well.

Amalji, I would be waiting for your post on this. What have they done in the new Etios/Liva that makes the NVH substantially lower? Even I am sure they can be added on to my existing car.

I love my car at 10K+ kilometre, only seven month old. It's a lovely car, and I intend to keep it for at least another three years. With the front suspension sound gone, the car is even better to drive. I am not really bothered about the rear suspension as most of the time I travel light. And in the city, with AC off, my car is averaging 19.2 km to a litre consistently. I am amazed to say the least. Have started using the AC intermittently for a few days. Would like to see the mileage with full AC on.

Most of the changes in the new Etios/ Liva do not bother me much. They have, thankfully not changed the heart of the car. Only we need to know the trick to reducing the NVH. That would be enough for me!

[spiler]

Originally Posted by amalji

Etios diesel engine and transmission is imported from Japan.

Even with the Petrol variants , it's the same till 2012 starting. Then they started manufacturing in India. With diesel, they have not yet taken a decision on it though.

If i am not wrong the D4D diesel engines are imported from Thailand and not Japan. However the petrol engines of Etios twins were imported from Japan till they started making it in India. Same with the transmission too i guess.

[amalji]

Originally Posted by spiler

If i am not wrong the D4D diesel engines are imported from Thailand and not Japan. However the petrol engines of Etios twins were imported from Japan till they started making it in India. Same with the transmission too i guess.

Where did you get the info from?
Reference URL -- m.thehindubusinessline.com/companies/toyota-launches-etios-liva-diesel-variants/article2439018.ece/
Toyota had promised engines from Japan during the launch of Etios diesel.

Quoting the relevant words from that article -
" Diesel engines will be imported from Japan,
the company having no plans of making them
in India in the near future."

I also called up the technical head in Nippon Toyota, kochi and he too confirmed that engine and transmission of Etios diesel are from Japan. He also mentioned that Toyota have plans to setup transmission manufacturing from India. But engine will continue to come from Japan.

[swiftnfurious]

Originally Posted by amalji

....Quoting the relevant words from that article -
" Diesel engines will be imported from Japan,
the company having no plans of making them
in India in the near future."

I also called up the technical head in Nippon Toyota, kochi and he too confirmed that engine and transmission of Etios diesel are from Japan. He also mentioned that Toyota have plans to setup transmission manufacturing from India. But engine will continue to come from Japan.

They should be incurring huge import costs on the engine & transmission then! They should have looked at localizing these 100% without compromising on the quality of components and price the car even better.