[chinkara]

Jumping into the wagon R debate -- with the rear seat fully foldable -- I have transferred beds, sofas etc. in my car.
Practicality, reliability is unmatched.

In fact, the problem I am facing is 9 years back my heart and head quickly agreed on the Wagon R at the price point I was looking at. Now I have been trying to decide on an SUV for 4-5 months and still can't.

[audioholic]

One major thing I would like to highlight about marutis massive scale is, though how much ever cars they sell, they haven't messed up their service. Dealers do sometimes add unnecessary charges and inflate bills, but that put away, everything else is just excellent. The customer as well as the car is treated well in the service centre. Compare the same to the scooter market leader Honda. Their sales volume has made the service centres become immune to customers. You don't have to stand early in the morning to give your maruti for service. You are not sent back if you are late in giving the vehicle for service. Your problems are addressed well due to the fear of escalation. They dont refuse responsibility for damage and so on. HMSI is the opposite. If there are nine good service centres and one bad service centre of Maruti, it is the opposite for HMSI.

That made maruti hold onto their market share, whereas now we see many people walking away from Honda. The same thing would have happened to maruti in case they did not keep up their after sales. Though percentage numbers may have decreased over the years, I feel that is more of a dilution of market share than outright loss. Now that the competition has become very aggressive, all that matters is not products, but how well they keep up after sales and also how reliable things are. I for one am ready to sacrifuce some of the bells and whistles for reliability and better after sales.

[bharat.joshi]

I believe that the increase in the manufacturing capacity at the Gurgaon plant was also because first, the recent and very unfortunate problems at Maruti's Manesar plant and second because Suzuki has now established India as a major export hub for its cars. The second reason is also a reason for planning a third plant in Gujarat. India has recently emerged as the only profit making market for Suzuki cars and any wise company would always be bullish about its goose that lays golden eggs.

Originally Posted by audioholic

You don't have to stand early in the morning to give your maruti for service. You are not sent back if you are late in giving the vehicle for service. Your problems are addressed well due to the fear of escalation. They dont refuse responsibility for damage and so on. HMSI is the opposite. If there are nine good service centres and one bad service centre of Maruti, it is the opposite for HMSI.

That made maruti hold onto their market share, whereas now we see many people walking away from Honda.

I would definitely differ with you on HMSI's service quality. As a student in Bangalore I regularly serviced my Unicorn from Dhruvdesh Honda and several times my bike was taken in the afternoons and returned the next day. Every company has different policies regarding it's after sales service and Honda's is simply to return the bike at the same day it entered the service center. Thus their bullishness on the 8.30-9.30 preference. And please, I can state several cases where my father's M800's OEM parts were stolen and fakes installed at Authorised Maruti Dealerships in New Delhi.

There are always good service centers and bad service centers in all car brands. And alternatively we have always had good neighborhood mechanics.

[gomzi]

Originally Posted by chinkara

Jumping into the wagon R debate -- with the rear seat fully foldable -- I have transferred beds, sofas etc. in my car.
Practicality, reliability is unmatched.

In fact, the problem I am facing is 9 years back my heart and head quickly agreed on the Wagon R at the price point I was looking at. Now I have been trying to decide on an SUV for 4-5 months and still can't.

Haha! Our family has had a Wagon R for last 7yrs. Other cars have come and gone from the family, a Hyundai Accent, a Tata Indigo CS and latest acquisition a Honda Civic.
I've been telling everyone for the last 2-3 yrs that I want to sell my Wagon R and get a replacement for the family beater, but you know what? It takes a beating but keeps on ticking.
Everytime we have overloaded on luggage on an airport run, the Wagon R just gulps up the bags, everytime I need to drive to a narrow laned area, Wagon R it is. Its been to Bangalore and back and still does short expressway runs. Its done 90k breakdown-puncture-free kms and the family chauffeur still swears by it. I thinks it will be the only car to last 10yrs in the family and we'll probably drive it till it falls apart.

[a4anurag]

Originally Posted by gomzi

Haha! Our family has had a Wagon R for last 7yrs. Other cars have come and gone from the family, a Hyundai Accent, a Tata Indigo CS and latest acquisition a Honda Civic.
I've been telling everyone for the last 2-3 yrs that I want to sell my Wagon R and get a replacement for the family beater, but you know what? It takes a beating but keeps on ticking.
Everytime we have overloaded on luggage on an airport run, the Wagon R just gulps up the bags, everytime I need to drive to a narrow laned area, Wagon R it is. Its been to Bangalore and back and still does short expressway runs. Its done 90k breakdown-puncture-free kms and the family chauffeur still swears by it. I thinks it will be the only car to last 10yrs in the family and we'll probably drive it till it falls apart.

Bingo Gomzi!

We too had a WagonR for 8 years and till date in the hatchbacks that I have driven, the WagonR is the best hatchbacks that ticks all the boxes for an average user. Be it luggage, practicality, mileage, speed, Comfort etc. The only reason that we sold the wagonR was because of the lack of a diesel engine. My travel to work and home is 113 kms a day so doing this distance on a petrol was too much. This is the only reason that I shifted to a Ritz VDi. While I owned the wagonR always felt like I needed an upgrade mentally but can never find a worthy replacement for the WagonR.

Coming to the topic,

Maruti is the India largest company that has a market share of around 45%. Normally anything that is high volume quality will decrease to demand of that product but one thing i that have noticed are the A.S.S that are still handling their customers good inspite the large customer base. I love the polo but the only deal breaker was the lack of A.S.S and quality of service guys they have.

Anurag.

[GTO]

Mod Note : This is NOT a WagonR Thread. Please avoid taking the discussion off-topic.

Thanks!

[veyron_head]

When I was in the market for a budget hatch last year, I simply couldn't convince myself to buy anything other than a Maruti. There are two things that are simply unmatched by any other manufacturer:

1.) Overall reliability. I fill fuel the car runs.
2.) After sales service.

I would give equal 50% importance to both the above factors as a customer. No other manufacturer has built so much of goodwill in the above two areas.

The primary difference between Maruti and others is that the dealers are as interested in serving customers well as the Maruti management. For example, Pratham motors here in bangalore gives me a complimentary ride back to home/office, after I leave the car for service. I find this hugely helpful, because I don't have to haggle with an auto driver or take the rush hour bus to get to work. Most Maruti owners would know how the dealers are scared about the feedback form. Anything below 10/10 is simply unacceptable for Maruti. This is one major factor why Maruti is able to win the market.

In contrast, for example, Fiat's efforts to revive its fortune may be well-intentioned and genuine, but that doesn't necessarily reflect in the service center/dealer.

[rockporiom]

Originally Posted by veyron_head

When I was in the market for a budget hatch last year, I simply couldn't convince myself to buy anything other than a Maruti. There are two things that are simply unmatched by any other manufacturer:

1.) Overall reliability. I fill fuel the car runs.
2.) After sales service.

I would give equal 50% importance to both the above factors as a customer. No other manufacturer has built so much of goodwill in the above two areas.

The primary difference between Maruti and others is that the dealers are as interested in serving customers well as the Maruti management. For example, Pratham motors here in bangalore gives me a complimentary ride back to home/office, after I leave the car for service. I find this hugely helpful, because I don't have to haggle with an auto driver or take the rush hour bus to get to work. Most Maruti owners would know how the dealers are scared about the feedback form. Anything below 10/10 is simply unacceptable for Maruti. This is one major factor why Maruti is able to win the market.

In contrast, for example, Fiat's efforts to revive its fortune may be well-intentioned and genuine, but that doesn't necessarily reflect in the service center/dealer.

Extremely true, the last time I visited the service center I saw a board which said that rate your experience from 1-10. 10 being excellent, 9 being acceptable and 8 and below unacceptable. This means that their margin for error is extremely low. I don't think any other brand takes so much care about service and customer relations.


It is a fact known from many years that car companies don't actually earn much from sales but they make up money from the service. I can't understand why only a few brands realize and accept this fact?

When a person goes to a Maruti Suzuki showroom to buy a car he knows two things for sure that he will never be left high and dry and will definitely get value for money.

[saket77]

^ Exactly. When people buy a Maruti, its just not the product or the car. They share the biggest service network, goodwill, time-tested reliability and most importantly the brand image and perception. All these things have worked immensely in favor of Maruti Suzuki in India. This is why it looks like that Maruti can never go wrong esp. in the A & B segments at least in India. Its not that Maruti cars are the best made cars available, but the value for money the buyer gets is the highest because of the above points that I made.

Regards,
Saket

[vikrantj]

In my personal opinion Maruti Suzuki has always been a non-innovative company.

They have survived because of couple of reasons. First and foremost Indian government till 2007 had a stake in it so funding it was never a problem, a case similar to Hindustan Motors. They have always followed the markets and never lead the markets in bringing about changes in their vehicles especially bring about important safety features like ABS etc. They have kept their cost low by using licensed technology and cheaper workforce (I got surprised when Maruti's workers resorted to murder, is the situation that bad in the factory ?)

Maruti has a goodwill because because it was a first mover in India. About Maruti's service network , it is equivalent to Tata or Mahindra so nothing spectacular.

[saket77]

Originally Posted by vikrantj

In my personal opinion Maruti Suzuki has always been a non-innovative company.

They have survived because of couple of reasons. First and foremost Indian government till 2007 had a stake in it so funding it was never a problem, a case similar to Hindustan Motors. They have always followed the markets and never lead the markets in bringing about changes in their vehicles especially bring about important safety features like ABS etc. They have kept their cost low by using licensed technology and cheaper workforce (I got surprised when Maruti's workers resorted to murder, is the situation that bad in the factory ?)

Maruti has a goodwill because because it was a first mover in India. About Maruti's service network , it is equivalent to Tata or Mahindra so nothing spectacular.

Some points that I agree to and some to which I disagree too:

Non-innovative:. Not really. They started the revolution, else we could have been still driving decades old cars in India likes Premiers and Ambys (not really in 2013 but definitely until the 2000!). But agree that they were late to introduce ABS/ air bags and other such features, esp. when they have the cushion (& somewhat moral responsibility) being a market leader. They should have in fact pioneered it.

Regarding the Govt's stake, until 2007 they held about 25% of the company shares, but regarding the funding part, Maruti was never a loss making concern hence I am not sure if they needed fund (s) from the Government to keep them going. In fact, it is regarded as one of the most profitable joint -venture and Suzuki was always keen to increase its share, so the question of Govt. funding does not arise. You have yourself cited the example of Hindustan Motors, which of course is a loss making and financially sick concern, which requires Govt funding to go on. Also, Govt funding does not ensure a successful company esp when it is dealing directly with the public in a competitive market. Again please refer to your own example: HM.

As you say, they have followed the markets. I would say, they followed what the people wanted. Maruti's strong hold is the A & B segment and no other manufacturer has held the pulse of the people as much as Maruti. The delivered what people in India wanted. So, I would say they followed people, not the market. No manufacturer 'lead the markets' esp. in these segments, IMO. Agreed, now most cars have literally become the cash cows for them, they are just 'milking' profits from them. Even a 25 years old Omni and a 30 years 800 sells because its backed & branded by Maruti. Intelligently sharing the platform for a lot of models also helps reduce both research and production costs, but the benefit is passed to the customer by pricing the car in sane manners.

Regarding Licensed technology, yes, the brain behind is Suzuki. There would be no Maruti if there was no Suzuki; literally. But what was PAL (Padmini, & Peugeot), HM(Lancer, Isuzu, and many more), Escorts (Ford), Tata (Mercedes Benz), but agreed, Maruti was much more dependent on Suzuki as it was not a manufacturer then. Currently the story might be different as production has localized to a great extent. But the point is its only the customer's gain, else we would have been decades back if Indian companies had to develop indigenous technology.
Regarding the MS plant violence, though I am not an IR expert, but the facts highlighted in wikipedia discusses other issues. Also, some monetary demands look little exorbitant. This is strictly my personal opinion.

Goodwill as a first mover: Yes, definitely, it has the early mover advantage and they deserve it and why not? But sustaining it was difficult with better and global players coming to India. But still Maruti has sustained its leadership for over 30 years now in all sorts of environment!

Last point is where you have said that service network is equivalent to Tata & Mahindra which is grossly wrong. The network in sheer numbers, the quality and ease of job and overall customer satisfaction is miles high than Tata & Mahindra. BTW, I could not understand why Mahindra? They have one or two passeger cars in the market and not really the segment MS operates in. So I don't really think that they should be compared at all with MS.

There can be some off incidents in all service stations but overall, MASS is beyond comparison of the two, at least for the current time and for the near future too.

Thanks,
Saket