[stuntfreak]

Originally Posted by karan561

The new 1 series(F20) looks fresh and competition ready i.e. to battle it out with the A Class;

Attachment 1078895

The A class is a FWD. (Unless you buy the AMG 4wd version).

End of story.
BMW wins

[Bluebeem]

Originally Posted by ashwin489

Guys! I believe we need to change our rhetoric when it comes to premium hatchbacks.

If we keep on speculating whether luxury hatchbacks (Merc, BMW >15 Lacs) will do well in India, things are not going to change at all. If we cannot conceive change, how will it ever happen?

Smaller countries around the world with much smaller populations are crowded with these hatches. I am so sick of our 3rd world treatment despite increasing disposable income and a humungous population.

Auto bigwigs read team-bhp and we should inspire confidence. If they keep on reading things like "my relative asked me why I spent 20 Lacs on a hatchback", it is going to be a vicious cycle of mediocrity.

If enough number of people believe in something, its becomes 'status quo' a.k.a the 100th monkey syndrome!

Are you saying we should write positive stuff and "Inspire Confidence" because these guys are reading our forum?

There's nothing "3rd world" about questioning the decision to purchase a hatchback that costs 30L OTR, Costs double of what it costs in Europe and USA, Comes with half the features than its 17 lac counterpart in Europe, Comes with almost half the power than its 17 lac european counterpart.

There's a certain image that hatchbacks around the world carry. And its definitely not a "premium" image. The only hatchbacks that have made it to the premium kitty are the ones who've gone ahead and given sublime/powerful/superior engines in their cars. Be it the Golf GTR, The Mini, The A class or 1 series.

The only people treating us like a 3rd world nation are the Big 3 from Germany. Unfortunately our buying decisions are only conforming with their thinking. They're making a fool of us by giving us underpowered models at a high price and we're buying ! We are doing record breaking bookings of a car that has been overpriced and underpowered to the limit. I reckon, most of these buyers (including a lot of BHPIANS) are buying this because of lac of options rather than being the first choice. Yes i know some would suggest Mini is a choice, but the Mini costs a good 7-10 Lacs more than the A class.

Our incomes are increasing but theyre not nearly as high as our western counterparts. And the "Humongous" population is a liability. Not an Asset.

There is no vicious cycle of mediocrity in a nation which is seing soaring sales of a Range Rover that Costs 1.76 Cr against its regular american/european price of 60L approx. Who ever thinks we are behaving mediocre because we are questioning their overpriced/underpowered product is obviously in need of some education.

The only reason big brands read this forum and respect it is because people here speak the Blunt-Bitter truth and there is no facade to "inspire confidence". And the truth of the day is that Mercedes has launched an underpowered/overpriced hatchback in India. And this is the reason why someobody's relatives questioned his decision to buy a 20L hatch.

Hopefully the BMW 1 series will be launched with a Powerful Engine and will put some of our "mediocre" questions on premium hatches to rest.

[altius]

I defenitely agree that Mercedes should have provided more powerful engines for the money they are asking, but I think some friend/relative will still question the decision to buy a 20+ L hatch, even if it has a 200+hp engine. I hope BMW and others don't take cue from A-Class success and launch their cars with under-powered engines

[ashwin489]

Originally Posted by Bluebeem

The only people treating us like a 3rd world nation are the Big 3 from Germany. Unfortunately our buying decisions are only conforming with their thinking. They're making a fool of us by giving us underpowered models at a high price and we're buying ! We are doing record breaking bookings of a car that has been overpriced and underpowered to the limit.

Yes, that was precisely my point. I was trying to say that car manufacturers need to stop viewing us as a 3rd world market by offering us only underpowered models. The vicious cycle of mediocrity that I was referring to is manufacturers offering us a crappy deal and we playing along with it.

That's about it. I did not ask anyone to do free PR and write positive stuff about any manufacturer. What I merely suggested was that we need not worry too much about acquaintances or family members judging us for "wasting" money on small (yet powerful) hatchbacks. Just shelling out 1.7 Cr for a Range Rover alone is not a sign of growth, but buying something that you like without caring about what the neighbours think is also a sign of emotional growth.

I'm sorry if I hit a nerve somewhere

[karan561]

As per latest reports the 1 series is likely to share the engine options with the X1, which makes 2 options as;

- 2 L Turbo Diesel (184Bhp-380Nm)
- 2 L NA Petrol (150Bhp-200Nm)

Source: http://motoroids.com/news/india-boun...s-with-bmw-x1/

[simplythebest]

I hope a manual option is given.

But I doubt it to be honest.

[YellowEye]

Originally Posted by Bluebeem

Are you saying we should write positive stuff and "Inspire Confidence" because these guys are reading our forum?

There's nothing "3rd world" about questioning the decision to purchase a hatchback that costs 30L OTR, Costs double of what it costs in Europe and USA, Comes with half the features than its 17 lac counterpart in Europe, Comes with almost half the power than its 17 lac european counterpart.

Thank you bluebell.

For me as a German I always feel that Indians are not getting their moneys worth by buying overpriced cars (mainly due to import taxes).

If you look at the bmw 1 or A class I feel that itis very hard to justify that extra money against for example the new polo gt (with some additional premium leather interiors and different alloys). 8 lakh vs 22 lakh.

honestly whoever can afford a luxury car in india should invest a bit more and have a reasonable sized and image carrying car like a A4, 3er, C-class which is assembled in India and not just imported. (if paid with EMI it will be hardly 3-5k more per month).

[vb-saan]

Originally Posted by karan561

As per latest reports the 1 series is likely to share the engine options with the X1, which makes 2 options as;

- 2 L Turbo Diesel (184Bhp-380Nm)
- 2 L NA Petrol (150Bhp-200Nm)

Probably just a speculation. It does make sense to share engine with the X1, but the X1 is available only in diesel now. The 2.0L 118d is a possibility, but for petrol the 1.6L 116i or 118i makes more sense (especially with the Mini moving into local assembly as well).

[karan561]

Originally Posted by simplythebest

I hope a manual option is given.

But I doubt it to be honest.

Now that's highly unlikely.

Possibly BMW will reserve the M/T option when they wish to launch the M135i to battle out against the A45 AMG

Originally Posted by vb-san

but for petrol the 1.6L 116i or 118i makes more sense (especially with the Mini moving into local assembly as well).

Yes, the petrols from the MINI could be a probable choice too.

[himanshugoswami]

IMHO, in terms of looks, the A class has the 1 series beaten even before the fight begins....all Merc has to do is to offer some sensible power optputs from the engines (simple ECU upgrade- n additional cost!) and the A class will seem irresistible to those in this price bracket.

[rxpaul]

Guys...is the RWD 1 series also going to have a traditional longitudinal engine or will it be transverse ? Are both these 2 Lit engines 4 cylinder ?

I personally think it makes more sense for BMW to launch the 1 series Sedan. Indians love sedans and with most families going two cars, its logical to have a small Japanese/korean hatch for city drives and a German saloon for longer intercity drives. What say ?

[vb-saan]

Originally Posted by rxpaul

Guys...is the RWD 1 series also going to have a traditional longitudinal engine or will it be transverse ? Are both these 2 Lit engines 4 cylinder ?

I believe it’s the former. The popular petrol options I have seen are the 116i and 118i – different variants of the 4 cylinder 1.6L petrol (used in the Mini as well). Other possible option is the 2.0L 125i.

Originally Posted by rxpaul

I personally think it makes more sense for BMW to launch the 1 series Sedan. Indians love sedans and with most families going two cars, its logical to have a small Japanese/korean hatch for city drives and a German saloon for longer intercity drives. What say ?

There is no 1-series sedan/coupe in the current gen. It’s either the 5-door hatchback (F20) or the 3-door version (F21). It’s quite a big hatchback by Indian standards, and will be a capable entry point to the luxury segment.

[dark.knight]

BMW's were built as compact sporty vehicles when it all started out and they were the undisputed leaders of Freude am Fahren until they decided to make it more luxurious, put EPS (why on earth does EPS even exist?) and suspension changes for cruising. I'm shocked that many want larger vehicles that float like a boat instead of compact, stable handlers that get the job done more efficiently. BMW should introduce the 114i (6 speel manual)/116i (8 speed steptronic), both have standard safety and convenience package, the additional tech/luxury package needn't be put in either to save costs. 1.6 litre engines are more than adequate in India, rest the driving pleasure will beat just about anything with twin turbos, 50-50 weight distribution & RWD. This will put BMW back into the cult of sheer driving pleasure instead of copying the strategy of others to go diesel (stratospheric costs). Pricing at the above specs will be very competitive and it WILL sell if they stick to it.

[.Albatross.]

I strongly believe the 1 series shall come with 112hp diesel and the 98hp petrol engines being offered in the ckd countrymans .

Any more power and a 10 lakhs ex showroom price difference with the 3 series shall undoubtedly affect the sales of their own bread and butter models .

[Bluebeem]

Originally Posted by dark.knight

BMW's were built as compact sporty vehicles when it all started out and they were the undisputed leaders of Freude am Fahren until they decided to make it more luxurious, put EPS (why on earth does EPS even exist?) and suspension changes for cruising. I'm shocked that many want larger vehicles that float like a boat instead of compact, stable handlers that get the job done more efficiently. BMW should introduce the 114i (6 speel manual)/116i (8 speed steptronic), both have standard safety and convenience package, the additional tech/luxury package needn't be put in either to save costs. 1.6 litre engines are more than adequate in India, rest the driving pleasure will beat just about anything with twin turbos, 50-50 weight distribution & RWD. This will put BMW back into the cult of sheer driving pleasure instead of copying the strategy of others to go diesel (stratospheric costs). Pricing at the above specs will be very competitive and it WILL sell if they stick to it.

Originally Posted by dark.knight

BMW's were built as compact sporty vehicles when it all started out and they were the undisputed leaders of Freude am Fahren until they decided to make it more luxurious, put EPS (why on earth does EPS even exist?) and suspension changes for cruising. I'm shocked that many want larger vehicles that float like a boat instead of compact, stable handlers that get the job done more efficiently. BMW should introduce the 114i (6 speel manual)/116i (8 speed steptronic), both have standard safety and convenience package, the additional tech/luxury package needn't be put in either to save costs. 1.6 litre engines are more than adequate in India, rest the driving pleasure will beat just about anything with twin turbos, 50-50 weight distribution & RWD. This will put BMW back into the cult of sheer driving pleasure instead of copying the strategy of others to go diesel (stratospheric costs). Pricing at the above specs will be very competitive and it WILL sell if they stick to it.

Unfortunately most purists including me are not as pure as you. We like a little bit of logic in our Sheer driving Pleasure. Petrol models still cost a bomb to own if you consider their resale value along with running costs. All carmakers are here to make money after all. After the obvious miserable failure of petrol only launches like the Camry and Fluidic Sonata, very few are willing to take the risk of launching petrol only cars.

I do believe BMW still manages to retain more than enough driving pleasure in its 184 bhp 320d 8 Speed engine. It's an absolute beauty and so much more refined and faster than its competition. Thats why BMW manages to sell so many cars inspite of being less comfortable and having far less gadgets than a comparable merc/Audi. I also think that the same engine in a 1 series hatch will be a Monster ! Having the likes of 114i as entry level may be a great idea actually. But bringing 114i and 116i without a powerful diesel variant may not be a great idea.

Many journals in the past week have spoken of the same thing. There will be a 118d with its engine adopted from 320d. And a 116i adopting its engine from the 320i. This will be done in the interest of saving costs.