[SDP]

Originally Posted by ACM

... a bigger compensation to the individual ....

I would say, that hits the nail squarely on the head. Fighting for your right, long-drawn battles with mighty manufacturers and at the end of it, besides getting the car repaired, you might not get anything else. That's such a lop-sided justice. The number of productive hours and days lost by the individual customer and more importantly the mental agony that one goes through had to be worth a few lakh rupees.

Don't want this to get to a ridiculous extreme as in US, where people sue for millions for a cup of coffee worth <4 dollars. At the same time, a few thousand Rs. as compensation is nothing short of rubbing salt in the wound of the wronged customer.

[nitinbose]

Wow! I really liked this!

If we were to go by the same yardstick, the Skoda MD or equivalent people should have been hanged or given some capital punishment for the grievances caused to the owners.

[manolin]

Originally Posted by Lalvaz

Ha ha, the company spokesperson has conveniently ignored the fact that the company has ignored the courts notice and instead put the blame on the customer for non co-operation. How convenient !!!

Karl Slym should be held accountable, since he is eventually responsible for the working of his company. Surely the court in its wisdom has given the company a legal notice, which should have been complied with. Failure to do so will or should attract punitive action.

... However, the fact that the court has sent such a strong message is a very positive development, and hopefully some of the more responsive companies will understand that the tide is turning, and will mend their ways.

Hopefully customers will get a better deal in the future, thanks to this case.

You have summed it up perfectly. I have no sympathies for Mr. Karl here. His company is not complying with laws. Plain, simple, and final. So he is responsible.

This is basically a mis-calculation by the legal team. Either someone forgot about the case or didn't think something like this would crop up, or some MIS glitch up happened because of which this didn't show up on the radar. I am very happy that one person's misery in the hands of a manufacturer results in a court order to the all powerful MD. This is only pathway for stricter consumer standards, and quality controls. We are spending hard earned (and pretty much sacrificed other comforts) for their products. They should also sacrifice some of their freedom and chilling and not cheat us.

[sgiitk]

Originally Posted by Captain Slow

Absolute Rubbish!! This is nothing but a try to get some unwanted media attention.

Agree 100%. The same logic as is used for a slew of defamation cases all over the country. His lawyers must have goofed up.

[sudeepg]

Whether this was an attempt to get unwanted media attention or not, my view point is that the MD should be held responsible if he was "aware" of the fact that the consumer complaint was not appropriately addressed. As someone pointed out on this forum, the biggest problem with most firms is the lack of proper escalation channel for end user issues. Had this existed in many organizations, such actions can be classified as acceptable. So in my opinion, such moves are good and the companies must learn from it to establish a proper complaint redressal channel. They ARE liable for actions of their dealers because they represent the company they work for.

[Lalvaz]

Originally Posted by sgiitk

Agree 100%. The same logic as is used for a slew of defamation cases all over the country. His lawyers must have goofed up.

Sure his lawyers might have goofed up, but let me ask you a question, Do you believe that Karl Slym is absolutely confident about the quality of his products, and the quality of customer care?

If he is aware of the quality concerns, then its his job to fix the problem. If he is unaware of the quality concerns, then he is simply not doing his job properly.

Either way, the buck stops right at the very top. After all someone in Tata Motors must take the responsibility for the bad products they make. Don't you agree to that?

[avira_tk]

Originally Posted by sgiitk

Agree 100%. The same logic as is used for a slew of defamation cases all over the country. His lawyers must have goofed up.

The defamation cases against celebrities are a result of some lumpen elements who believe that they have a right not to be offended, this issue has to do with criminal negligence of quality standards for a high priced consumer product.

This is not a defamation case, when you are summoned, you have to comply which essentially means you are given the right to defend yourself. This shouldn't be difficult for Mr. Karl, with an army of lawyers on corporate retainer. If the MD thought it was a joke, it tells us a lot about Tata Motors' attitude towards customers who put up good money in their never improving product line up.

[manolin]

Looking at the comments in this thread, I get a feeling that lots of people here work in set ups similar to corporate setups, where one hand doesn't necessarily know what the other hand is doing, and hence they have sympathy for the MD.

What they don't realise is that while hands may not know what they are doing, that is not how it is supposed to be. The nature of law in this country, and very thankfully it is that way, is that every person in a managerial role has a duty of care and responsibility regarding his job -- any legal issues cropping up in a particular area/vertical can be directed at any of the managerial staff (all the way to the very top, which is generally the MD/Executive Director) in that vertical/area. We should be thankful it is that way - otherwise senior people can always excuse themshelves by saying they didn't have knowledge of that specific thing (when they should have, their information system should be that robust, and their consumer behaviour should be that specific), and junior people who were not guided/managed/directed properly will cop the blame. Because it is a car manufacturer, and its a single complaint, people seem to have sympathies. What if there is a critical failure in a particular part, which causes deaths? For Bhopal gas tragedy, why should the MD in US not be responsible. Corporate criminal responsibility (and this tata case is more about not following court orders) is a very serious and necessary requirement - as otherwise the risks and damage that a product or process made by a company is exposing people to will not be reined in.

[Lalvaz]

http://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/i...w/19929238.cms

Another case involving Tata Motors, this particular case was involving an Indica that was taken for repairs 36 times from May 1999 to Nov 2000, and still was not in satisfactory working condition.

Its one thing to produce a dud, its altogether another matter to not make amends to the trusting consumer, but it takes a special kind of unethical behaviour to harass the customer in legal cases for so many years. Please note this particular case involved TELCO appealing the verdict of the Delhi State Consumer Commission which was in favour of the consumer. Unfortunately for TELCO, the National Consumer Disputes Redressal Commission upheld the order of the Delhi State Consumer Commission.

Now, please explain why the Tata's did not gracefully accept the verdict and make amends. This attempt to entangle the consumer in legal cases for many years till he gets fed up or dies or goes bankrupt is nothing but an abuse of the legal system, and reflects on the attitude of manufacturers like the Tata's and Skoda.

This is precisely why we are so happy with the verdict of the Chandigarh commission.

[akhilesh51]

Too much ado about nothing!

This order will have no impact whatsoever on laws and sentences pertaining to quality of products and services. In fact, the judgement does not even relate to any product or service issue.

The order is simply supplied because Tata Motors were found to be in contempt of court. Period.

Will Karl Slym go to jail? Most certainly not. Why? Consumer court can not just dole out jail terms to any person or entity. It is not even entitled to any punishments more than financial compensations. When in contempt of court, and only in contempt of court, Consumer court advises judicial courts regarding a stipulated punishment of jail terms which are then reviewed by competent court. This is now subject to arguments presented by Tata Motors in defence on MD.

Is this normal for MD's to be in such a situation? Yes, very normal. Has any MD actually ever been arrested? Not really. Mostly, this is a general practice and media has just lent fire to something very trivial. Since Karl Slym represents one of India's biggest companies, much like the Ambani brothers some months back, there has been unneccessary hype over routine legal procedures.

So take the news with a pinch of salt and just move on. Neither the judiciary nor the auto industry will be affected or changed even 0.001% by such cases.

[veyron_head]

Came across this thread just now. Seriously? So, for example, will the prime minister of the country be put in jail because the road in your locality has potholes?

[asr245]

Originally Posted by veyron_head

Came across this thread just now. Seriously? So, for example, will the prime minister of the country be put in jail because the road in your locality has potholes?

No, because most likely he's not responsible. Some local authority which comes under the state is responsible for it. Even if he was, it will depend on severity of the problem/crime.

But if Chinese troops enter India and have a mis-adventure, then the Chinese Premier is ultimately responsible - not the Commanding Officer of that unit.

[Dieseldunk]

Cars are bought solely at individual discretion and choice and no compulsion.Will the same guy pay TATA motors MD extra money if he had a trouble free car for the ownership period.

Are we not holding some one else responsible with whom we never came in contact. Best example- you buy Boost and find that stamina levels do not rise do you hold Sachin/Dhoni/Virat responsible and also the company MD. Come on give a break.

PS: pl note this is only a for a discussion and not point making mail

Cheers
Prasad

[Nitrous Power]

Originally Posted by Dieseldunk

Cars are bought solely at individual discretion and choice and no compulsion.Will the same guy pay TATA motors MD extra money if he had a trouble free car for the ownership period.

Seriously? So are you saying here that manufacturers are not supposed to provide you reliable car even though you bought it with your hard earned money? Just because buyer had choice and he still he bought Tata does not mean that he should not get reliable car. Somebody should be held responsible in selling Lemon to customer. It happened to be CEO in this case. All this is possible in our country because of lack of implementation of stricter laws.

Please note that, I am not commenting on CEO's jail term is right or wrong.

Originally Posted by Dieseldunk

Are we not holding some one else responsible with whom we never came in contact. Best example- you buy Boost and find that stamina levels do not rise do you hold Sachin/Dhoni/Virat responsible and also the company MD. Come on give a break.

PS: pl note this is only a for a discussion and not point making mail

Cheers
Prasad

Again wrong example! Sachin/Dhoni/Virat are brand ambassadors and have nothing to do with the company.

[chinkara]

Originally Posted by asr245

No, because most likely he's not responsible. Some local authority which comes under the state is responsible for it. Even if he was, it will depend on severity of the problem/crime.

But if Chinese troops enter India and have a mis-adventure, then the Chinese Premier is ultimately responsible - not the Commanding Officer of that unit.

But the question is, what action can be taken against the PM for "dereliction of duty" because Chinese troops infiltrated India? Ultimately, he is also responsible for processes, systems to keep India's borders secure, right?

But jokes apart, I agree with ACM. A heftier compensation would have been better. If I put myself in the customer's place, I would not care whether Mr. Slym goes to jail or not, but I would sure like a few lakhs for my time, money and frustration.