[zenren]

Originally Posted by swiftnfurious

I think we had a lengthy discussion on the Fiesta hatch thread some time back where one of the guy working for Ford cleared the air that hatches are costlier mainly due to the additional sheet metal usage (compared to sedan).

Thanks, I guess I missed that discussion. How would a hatch have additional sheet metal usage compared to sedan? I can understand estate versus sedan but doesn't the hatch have a smaller surface area than a sedan?

[swiftnfurious]

Originally Posted by zenren

...How would a hatch have additional sheet metal usage compared to sedan? I can understand estate versus sedan but doesn't the hatch have a smaller surface area than a sedan?

From what I recollect, the points were

1. the roof length
2. boot lid and it's complications or something.

I think another valid point mentioned below too.

Originally Posted by satyaanveshi

...Hatchbacks require additional strengthening around the C pillar and this can add to costs...

Originally Posted by satyaanveshi

...All said and done, since the Jazz and the City share the same platform, their production costs are likely to be in the same ballpark. If at all, the Jazz may be marginally costlier on a per unit basis, especially if its smaller volumes necessitate the import of any components that are not shared with the City...

I think we all are missing the biggest problem in previous gen Jazz's pricing. It was NOT the hatch Vs sedan size, it was rather the kind of import content which made the Jazz quite pricier.

As long as this one thing is taken care of, the cost of the car can be brought down considerably. If there is atleast 80% localisation of the parts, then the Jazz can hit the sweet spot as I see a lot of bin sharing (in the pics) with the City.

Originally Posted by satyaanveshi

...I think the factor that will have the greatest impact on the Jazz's pricing will be the success or otherwise of the new City and the Mobilio. It is for a reason that these are being launched before the Jazz...

I am NOT sure how the success of these models can influence price of Jazz. At any cost, irrespective of the sales of other models, Jazz needs to be priced sensibly to take off in the market. It's even more imperative as the last gen Jazz was a dud. While success of City will help in Jazz in terms of scale of parts (since I expect quite a lot of bin sharing), the plant capacity may NOT have relevance. Jazz can NOT command a premium and be happy with the margins and small volumes on a long term. We see the demand tapering off in most segments and cars which are better VFM will come out with better numbers.

[deetjohn]

Originally Posted by zenren

I don't know if it was really the tax alone or something else that makes the sedans cheaper in some markets but I certainly don't think a longer sedan will be cheaper to produce in terms of the actual production cost. Steel and sheet metal are not that cheap anyway.

Adding wash/wipe is certainly costly. When you think about the extremes that bean counters go to save even 10 bucks, wash/wipe and 2 hydraulic struts are certainly a huge outlay. Most budget sedans have simple metal angles to keep the boot door open. And they don't have any plastic trims on the underside of the boot door neither half way through the C pillar.

I have also read fixing the rear windshield is tricky business in a hatchback. Its a much easier job on a sedan. And on assembly line, seconds are counted in dollars!

[Marauder]

Originally Posted by k_ajay

Many seem to be commenting that Honda hopefully don't mess up the Jazz's pricing.

What are we expecting the Jazz's ex-showroom prices to be? Your guesses?

I hope we're realistic as last time they messed up pricing but now pricing of almost all automobiles has increased several folds in the last 5 years.

I don't know what expectations we have for the petrol Jazz when Brio petrol itself starts at 5.29L [MT] and ends at 6.83L [MT] / 7.75L [AT], on-road B'lore, for petrol metallic paint variants.

I cannot see the Jazz being cheaper than 5.99L on-road B'lore for the base variant.

I think that would also depend on what kind of features Honda offers in the base variants but I doubt they will go for the strategy they adopted with previous generation Jazz i.e having few variants with little difference between them and even the base variant having the essential safety features.
As we have seen with the City and other newer launches recently they will most probably have a barebones base variant and a fully loaded top variant with 2-3 mid variants completing the line-up.
I think it may be prices at about 2 lakhs less than the City which would mean the base petrol starting at around 5.5 Lakhs but the diesel might have a smaller difference as the engine would be the same as the City diesel unlike the petrol one.
Also, the top end petrol should not be more than 7.5 lakhs ex-showroom Delhi.

[damager21]

Originally Posted by deetjohn

In the international markets, the hatchbacks are costlier than the respective sedans. Case in point, the Ford Fiesta Sedan and Hatch in US, the Honda Jazz/ City etc.

Its not due to tax, but cost of production. Hatchbacks are costly due to the 5th door, the wash/wipe, additional plastic trims, the rear windshield, hydraulic struts etc. Sedan is relatively simpler to put together and requires lesser number of parts.

India is a different story altogether. Cost is directly proportional to the area that a vehicle occupies on road.

India is a different story and an Automaker will get killed if they were to price hatchback more than a sedan. Lets not forget that Brio costs 1.12 lacs less than the Amaze which is based on the same platform.

[shayonpal]

I had visited the Solitaire Honda showroom yesterday, in Andheri (W), looking to test drive the Amaze. I had asked the Sale Representative about any impending launch of the Jazz, and he informed that there are no more new launches expected in 2014. I very much doubt he was right, but I am not very sure. The reason I am concerned is that even though I don't know which car am I gonna buy right now, I know I am surely gonna pick up the Jazz in case it gets launched in the next 2-3 months.

[swiftnfurious]

Originally Posted by shayonpal

I had visited the Solitaire Honda showroom yesterday, in Andheri (W), looking to test drive the Amaze. I had asked the Sale Representative about any impending launch of the Jazz, and he informed that there are no more new launches expected in 2014. I very much doubt he was right, but I am not very sure. The reason I am concerned is that even though I don't know which car am I gonna buy right now, I know I am surely gonna pick up the Jazz in case it gets launched in the next 2-3 months.

Jazz should NOT be here any time before Oct-Nov 2014 for sure. No companies usually do brand new launches in such quick succession. With City's success, they would want to focus more on it. And Honda has capacity issues as well I believe.

[iamswift]

Originally Posted by shayonpal

I had visited the Solitaire Honda showroom yesterday, in Andheri (W), looking to test drive the Amaze. I had asked the Sale Representative about any impending launch of the Jazz, and he informed that there are no more new launches expected in 2014.

What ever sales guy says, it is almost always related to the monthly target number running in his mind in the background.
Take it with pinch of salt.

[damager21]

Honda India President & CEO, Hironori Kanayama has already confirmed launch of 2 new cars in the coming financial year which is Apr'14-Mar'15. You can't expect them to launch 2 new cars in a span of first 3 months of 2015.

Possibly during the Auto expo next week we will get some clue on the exact launch month if not date of the Mobilio and Jazz.

[shayonpal]

Originally Posted by damager21

Possibly during the Auto expo next week we will get some clue on the exact launch month if not date of the Mobilio and Jazz.

So, this at least means I shouldn't get my hopes high for the Jazz, and just go ahead with whatever's the best option in the next couple of weeks!

[damager21]

Originally Posted by shayonpal

So, this at least means I shouldn't get my hopes high for the Jazz, and just go ahead with whatever's the best option in the next couple of weeks!

Since the New City was just launched, there is no chance of another immediate vehicle launch by Honda. There are reports that Honda may launch its next car in April/June and the next one in October/November.

What we know is that the 2 new cars will be Mobilio and Jazz. What we don't know yet is whether the next launch is Jazz or Mobilio.

[akshay87kumar]

Business Standard reports Honda Cars India has

finally unvieled the much-anticipated new generation Honda Jazz hatchback at the ongoing 2014 Indian Auto Expo. It is the same vehicle which already launched in several international markets. For the first time, the Jazz hatchback is being offered in both petrol and diesel guise...

Inside the cabin, the new Jazz shows the Honda's immensely popular "Man Maximum Machine Minimum" philosophy. This hatchback has spacious interiors and it features a large dashboard like its predecessor. It comes loaded with touch-screen system with navigation, three-spoke steering wheel with music controls mounted on it. The material quality and the fit & finish of the plastic is top notch. The new Jazz provides an excellent headroom, legroom and knee-room space for both the front and rear occupants. It offers an excellent boot capacity of 400-litres, which can be further increased by folding the rear seats.

The new Jazz hatchback gets two engine options- a 1.2-litre i-VTEC petrol and 1.5-litre i-DTEC diesel. While the petrol mill churns out a maximum power output of 87bhp, the oil burner produces 98bhp of top power. The i-VTEC engine is mated to a five-speed manual and a five-speed automatic transmission, while the diesel engine is paired to a six-speed manual gearbox.

I do not understand how it has been unveiled before the Auto Expo kicks off. The competition being Maruti Swift, Volkswagen Polo, Hyundai i20, Fiat Punto and others, can we expect it at 6.5-8.5 lakh OTR?

[sukiwa]

Originally Posted by akshay87kumar

I do not understand how it has been unveiled before the Auto Expo kicks off.

Source site article for Business Standard is no longer available, so most likely Jazz hasn't been launched yet. I don't think Honda India has capacity to launch another car just after City & they would wait till City sales settle down.

[akshay87kumar]

Originally Posted by sukiwa

Source site article for Business Standard is no longer available, so most likely Jazz hasn't been launched yet. I don't think Honda India has capacity to launch another car just after City & they would wait till City sales settle down.

I can very well open the link, maybe you can try it again?
The Article does not say that the car has been launched. Just that it has been unveiled. No concrete details about the specifications is available either.

[shayonpal]

This changes things so much for me. 3 years ago, I badly wanted this car but I couldn't afford it. Today, I can afford it and is back in the market for a premium hatchback. If I miss it this time as well, I will be almost heartbroken.