[damager21]

Honda has announced the launch of new Jazz in Malaysia. They will get 3 variants - S, E and V which will have a mix of following features.

• Halogen headlights
• 16-inch alloy wheels
• Seven-inch Display Autio
• Turbo panel auto air conditioning
• Hands-free telephone steering switch
• Smart entry with push start button
• LCD meter cluster
• USB, HDMI ports
• ULTRA Seats
• Six airbags
• VSA
• Hill-Start Assist
• ABS

Top variant will get all these features. The piece that I loved the most in following brochure was interest rate of 2.53%. Waiting for India launch and I think we too will get 3 variants.

Photos from the preview roadshow in Malaysia. Pre-bookings are open from 1st to 15th July after which the car will be officially launched.

Source: http://www.honda.com.my and http://paultan.org

[raksrules]

Assuming these 3 variants launch in India, what price points does one think it would come in ?
Also I have a strong feeling that like many companies, we may get a step motherly treatment here as well. Like top variant may have 2 air bags instead of 6, lower might not even have any.
AT If launched will probably be without airbags (like Hyundai Grand i10).
Not sure why but I feel AT models receive the worst treatment in India.

Btw from the above pics, the car looks super spacious.

[damager21]

Originally Posted by raksrules

Assuming these 3 variants launch in India, what price points does one think it would come in ?
Also I have a strong feeling that like many companies, we may get a step motherly treatment here as well. Like top variant may have 2 air bags instead of 6, lower might not even have any.
AT If launched will probably be without airbags (like Hyundai Grand i10).
Not sure why but I feel AT models receive the worst treatment in India.

Btw from the above pics, the car looks super spacious.

If you look at the latest trend, you will find that all automakers are launching base variant of their car at an aggressive price to create positive buzz and pull customers to their showroom. Given this, I wont be surprised if Honda was to launch base variant of Jazz in the price range of INR 4.9-5.2 lacs.

The base variant would come with bare minimum features but its the upper variants which will come loaded. However, I don't expect Honda to introduce any new feature in Jazz which is currently not offered in City except magic seats.

I think Honda is playing a waiting game. They know that Hyundai will be launching new i20 shortly and going by Grand i10, it will have all bells & whistles and could be launched at an aggressive price. Most of the new cars like Bolt, i20, etc will come with projector headlamps and DRLs, a feature which Honda may not want to include.

If this happens, Honda will have very little room to play on pricing.

[ashwin489]

Dear Honda,

1) Give the Jazz a proper 1.5 L petrol engine.
2) Give it a CVT transmission.
3) Price it fairly and sensibly.

If you can do 1,2 & 3, you can have my money. Otherwise, please don't bother launching the car in India with a 1.2L engine and the regular AT; it WILL fail and I really hope it does.

Why would anyone shell a few more lakhs compared to the Brio just to get a little more spacious car? For people looking for a bigger car, there is always the Amaze. You don't have to load up the car with gizmos, as accessories can be purchased later.

As the Jazz failed previously in its conservative avatar (albeit due to pricing), at least be bold this time around and maybe open up a potential market that is begging to be tapped into. The Polo TSI has long waiting periods, so take a cue from that.

Keep it simple. You don't have to launch 7 variants; 3 will do. Petrol AT, Petrol MT and Diesel MT. I don't think that the potential customer for this car is going to complain for not having the option to buy a base (low-end) variant car.

Follow your company's marketing BS: The Power of Dreams and what not. Be proactive and set the tone for the industry to follow.

[Geo_Ipe]

Originally Posted by raksrules

... I have a strong feeling that like many companies, we may get a step motherly treatment here as well. Like top variant may have 2 air bags instead of 6, lower might not even have any....

Would like to remind all that the previous generation Jazz came with ABS & Airbags standard even on the base model! Don't think any other hatchback manufacturer gave safety features so much importance.

[methecupid]

Originally Posted by ashwin489

Dear Honda,

1) Give the Jazz a proper 1.5 L petrol engine.
2) Give it a CVT transmission.
3) Price it fairly and sensibly.

If you can do 1,2 & 3, you can have my money.

Great to see how sorted we are with respect to what we want. I have a huge problem in knowing exactly what, and usually end up liking bits and pieces of different cars.

So tell me what would be a sensible price for the Jazz with a CVT and a 1.5 mill under it's hood. Will the market be able to lug itself out of the mindset "hatch cheap, boot expensive"? Bear in mind, with the specs you have suggested, the Jazz will be equally expensive as the City. In Philippines, the starting price of Jazz is higher than the City (albeit starts at a lower variant).

We all want a lot of things for our cars to do. Heck when we are stuck in traffic, we would also want it to have flying capabilities at the push of a button. We are auto enthusiasts but let's not be auto autocrats! Honda is here for business and let's not fault it if it launches the Jazz in 1.2 and skins a few features, because they don't want to price it closer to the City and burn their fingers like the last time.

[damager21]

Originally Posted by ashwin489

Dear Honda,

1) Give the Jazz a proper 1.5 L petrol engine.
2) Give it a CVT transmission.
3) Price it fairly and sensibly.

If you can do 1,2 & 3, you can have my money. Otherwise, please don't bother launching the car in India with a 1.2L engine and the regular AT; it WILL fail and I really hope it does.

Why would anyone shell a few more lakhs compared to the Brio just to get a little more spacious car? ......

As the Jazz failed previously in its conservative avatar (albeit due to pricing), at least be bold this time around and maybe open up a potential market that is begging to be tapped into. The Polo TSI has long waiting periods, so take a cue from that.

Ideally we would all want Honda to launch Jazz with 1.5L petrol engine but personally I don't see that happening. I believe Honda will launch Jazz with 1.2L petrol engine to pass on the excise duty benefit to customers. For small cars with <1.2L petrol engine the excise is 8% while for 1.5L petrol engine the duty is 20% - that's a whopping 12% benefit which most of the customers would want to have.

Given that Honda India has changed its strategy and is not chasing volumes, another reason why 1.5L may not be the default petrol engine.

Having said that, I feel Honda may launch Jazz RS with 1.5L petrol engine in India to take on VW TSI and I think that would be a good strategy to adopt.

Let's not forget that VW TSI carries a 1.2L turbocharged petrol engine so its not that they carry a bigger engine.

Also, I think comparing Brio and Jazz may not be the right thing to do because Jazz does offer loads of space with better quality interior fittings as compared to Brio and will cost a lac higher.

[ashwin489]

Originally Posted by methecupid

So tell me what would be a sensible price for the Jazz with a CVT and a 1.5 mill under it's hood.

Good question. I did a bit of layman math to arrive at a price. Bear with me for a while. Ex-showroom prices from Honda's website for Bangalore:

Brio VX AT : Rs. 614,500
Amaze 1.2 VX AT (i-VTEC) Petrol : Rs. 769,000

Honda charges a difference of 1.55 lakhs for a strap-on boot for the Amaze, when compared to the Brio.

City VX CVT Petrol : Rs. 1,113,500

I'll use the same logic to speculate a fair price for the Jazz, but subtracting Honda's cost of manufacturing a boot.

Jazz VX CVT Petrol : Rs. 9,58,000 (my guesstimate). And, yes, I think it is a fair price.

I understand that manufacturing a car is a much more complex process, but my speculation is based on Honda's own pricing strategy. If we as consumers are okay paying 1.55 lakhs for a boot, Honda shouldn't have a problem selling the Jazz for 1.55 lakhs cheaper than the City.

Originally Posted by methecupid

Will the market be able to lug itself out of the mindset "hatch cheap, boot expensive"?

Well, I hope to see the market evolving to buy products based on needs rather than specifications/perceived image. I personally believe that a well-designed hatchback's boot space is adequate for a sizable number of people (young, urban, nuclear families) most of the time. 60:40 fold-able seats are the icing on the cake. Parking spaces coming at a premium may also lead to this shift in mindset.

Most of all, I feel like a giant consumer gulping down an over-sized Big Mac all by myself, when I drive alone in a big sedan. I don't believe in keeping a hatch for the city and a sedan for the highways, as this is again a waste of space, time (maintenance) and money. I am also finding it harder day by day to drive my bike on our roads, given the utter disregard for human life and "rules". And, please don't get me started on public transport. So, that is the essence of why I want a proper hatchback and why I am willing to pay a premium for it.

Edit: I realized that most people will not see this logic, but dreaming never killed anyone.

[amit]

It looks smashing in the second pic & those alloys are awesome! Hope we get the same ones in India & yes, we deserve the 1.5L from the City.

I think we can safely assume that 4 airbags, VSA & hill start assist will be knocked off from the Indian variant & 16 inch alloys will be replaced with 15 inch ones.

[aim120]

Originally Posted by ashwin489

Why would anyone shell a few more lakhs compared to the Brio just to get a little more spacious car? For people looking for a bigger car, there is always the Amaze. You don't have to load up the car with gizmos, as accessories can be purchased later.

The Honda Amaze, while having a boot is still less spacious compared to the Jazz.The interiors are also of better quality in the Jazz.

[ashwin489]

Originally Posted by aim120

The Honda Amaze, while having a boot is still less spacious compared to the Jazz.The interiors are also of better quality in the Jazz.

So, if we as a market are willing to pay a premium for better quality plastic and minimal improvement in space, why wouldn't we be willing to pay for a better engine and better (more fuel-efficient CVT) gearbox?

I ask this because most people say that "our market" will not pay a premium for a Jazz 1.5, but find it "acceptable" to pay a premium for a Jazz 1.2 over a Brio 1.2. I am honestly trying to understand why one sort of premium (better quality interiors+space) is perfectly reasonable, but this other premium (better engine+gearbox) is financially not viable?

If I were to pick a premium feature, I would rather have poor quality plastics and cramped space in a powerful car with a better gearbox. Wouldn't most people on T-bhp do the same or am I just plain delusional?

[gsurya]

Originally Posted by ashwin489

If I were to pick a premium feature, I would rather have poor quality plastics and cramped space in a powerful car with a better gearbox. Wouldn't most people on T-bhp do the same or am I just plain delusional?

You have a good example in front of you... Duster had poor interiors & plastics yet sold like hotcakes because of the format, engine & gearbox.

I think there is a certain combination that works in some cases, doesnt in others.. the Indian customer tends to look for uniqueness, value for money, is quality conscious but will make compromises & demands superb pricing too!

[damager21]

Originally Posted by ashwin489

If I were to pick a premium feature, I would rather have poor quality plastics and cramped space in a powerful car with a better gearbox. Wouldn't most people on T-bhp do the same or am I just plain delusional?

It may not be as simple as that. There is a reason why Grand i10 sold over 1 lakh units in less than 10 months. Is it because of engine? I don't think so. The answer is pretty obvious that Indian consumers love value for money in which features are preferred over engine.

If powerful car was the main criteria then the likes of VW GT and Punto 90-HP would sell in huge numbers. On an average VW sells 2000 Polo per month and Fiat sells 800 Punto per month. Even if 50% of these were powerful variants then I think its a too small number to chase.

Honda's strategy is pretty clear, they want to hit 3 lakh unit production by 2017 and that will happen only if they price their products aggressively.

Originally Posted by ashwin489

Good question. I did a bit of layman math to arrive at a price. Bear with me for a while. Ex-showroom prices from Honda's website for Bangalore:

Brio VX AT : Rs. 614,500
Amaze 1.2 VX AT (i-VTEC) Petrol : Rs. 769,000

Honda charges a difference of 1.55 lakhs for a strap-on boot for the Amaze, when compared to the Brio.

City VX CVT Petrol : Rs. 1,113,500

I'll use the same logic to speculate a fair price for the Jazz, but subtracting Honda's cost of manufacturing a boot.

Jazz VX CVT Petrol : Rs. 9,58,000 (my guesstimate). And, yes, I think it is a fair price.

If we as consumers are okay paying 1.55 lakhs for a boot, Honda shouldn't have a problem selling the Jazz for 1.55 lakhs cheaper than the City.

Lets look at what competition is offering in Bangalore
Hyundai i20 Sportz AT - 7,86,857
Volkswagen Polo TSI - 8,14,212

Do you think people will buy Jazz for 1.4 lacs more? It will be the same pricing disaster as before.

If Honda was to launch Jazz with 1.2L petrol engine, following is what I think the pricing might look like in Bangalore.


I personally believe that Honda will offer only one AT variant in which it will consider features of City SV as the base, add some features available in City VX and price it around 7.75 lacs. Later on they may launch Jazz RS at a higher pricing.

[ashwin489]

Originally Posted by damager21

There is a reason why Grand i10 sold over 1 lakh units in less than 10 months. The answer is pretty obvious that Indian consumers love value for money in which features are preferred over engine.

Lets look at what competition is offering in Bangalore
Hyundai i20 Sportz AT - 7,86,857
Volkswagen Polo TSI - 8,14,212

Do you think people will buy Jazz for 1.4 lacs more? It will be the same pricing disaster as before.

Later on they may launch Jazz RS at a higher pricing.

Whatever you mentioned makes a lot of sense from a manufacturer's perspective.

But, I honestly can't wrap my head around why someone that could afford a decent 10 lakh car won't spend a lakh more to get a really good car. Since we Indians love numbers and stats, a simple 10% increase in the overall cost of the car will increase overall driving experience manifold. Isn't that value for money?

I am sorry about my extended rant and I'll stop for now. I hope they launch the RS sometime in the near future.

[aim120]

Originally Posted by ashwin489

So, if we as a market are willing to pay a premium for better quality plastic and minimal improvement in space, why wouldn't we be willing to pay for a better engine and better (more fuel-efficient CVT) gearbox?

I ask this because most people say that "our market" will not pay a premium for a Jazz 1.5, but find it "acceptable" to pay a premium for a Jazz 1.2 over a Brio 1.2. I am honestly trying to understand why one sort of premium (better quality interiors+space) is perfectly reasonable, but this other premium (better engine+gearbox) is financially not viable?

If I were to pick a premium feature, I would rather have poor quality plastics and cramped space in a powerful car with a better gearbox. Wouldn't most people on T-bhp do the same or am I just plain delusional?

I hope they launch a CVT version and people will not mind paying more for this.

But on the other hand the 1.5 liter engine is more thirsty,so in B+ segment which is fuel conscious I don't think there will be much takers for the 1.5 .

Secondly ,if Honda where to launch the Jazz with a 1.5 liter engine ,then they will have to price it above the city.Since internationally Jazz as always be priced higher then the City.