[@KP]

Update from a dealer in HYD who didn't want to be named --

They are expecting a launch in Mar '15, worst case in Apr '15. No information given to them about price or features or variants. More details might be available by Feb-end. Keeping fingers crossed !!

[Vigkey]

Originally Posted by @KP

I doubt if it will happen this time around? With Mobilio, you did not really have a glass ceiling on pricing with the next car from Honda atleast double the price of Mobilio. But Jazz RS version will breach into Mobilio and there is a chance of consumers being confused with choice (although they are both in different categories)

Well, I feel the market has matured a bit more and that is why premium hatchbacks like Elite i20 that costs much more than pseudo-Sedans like Xcent and has small overlap with proper Sedans like City and Verna are still selling very good numbers.

If the premium hatchback is really premium and has enough features for the price + a good engine + Honda brand, customer will not really care if Mobilio is available at the same / lesser price. Mobilio not premium in any angle.

Originally Posted by narenteam

Yes, pricing is key if the model has to be successful. It isn't enough if just a few enthusiasts buy it. Anything north of 6.2 lakhs for the base version will mean the sales will fail like earlier, irrespective of what great features the product boasts of.

6.2 L for the base version is way too costly IMO. To pull in people into the showroom, they should have a version which costs around 5.5 L. Can be bare-bones, but if the ad says Jazz from 5.49 lakhs, people will be more interested.

Originally Posted by suhaas307

I personally believe that the 1.5 does not make sense for the Indian market.

Sure, more power is always welcome. But the Jazz is inherently a point A to point B car. It's suspension is not tuned for fun. The ride and handling in the outgoing one is strictly average. I expect Honda to dial-in a bit of compliance in the new car's ride but that's about it. The steering is not great for enthusiastic driving and it the car hates being chucked into corners.

I have not driven the previous gen Jazz but I am worried seeing the skepticism in many regarding the 1.5L iVTEC in Jazz. I for one was eagerly waiting for the 1.5L iVTEC + CVT / Manual in the Jazz, no matter the price.

I am not sure if the suspension set up in the India Jazz and US Fit is very different. But the reviews from US have praised the handling of Fit and called it one of the better handling super minis. Based on the reviews I read / watched in Youtube, handling of Fit is behind the Fiesta hatch but well ahead of the competition. Moreover, the City is not a had handler either the suspension is pretty good and actually the plush ride is something that has taken a hit slightly but the handling part is really good in the new City IMO. The steering, I agree is too light, but so is Polo's and Liva's and Hyundai's. They too give powerful petrol cars. Don't they? Only Fiat and Ford give good steering and Marutis are also not bad. I feel, if the Indian Jazz gets the suspension setup similar to the US Fit, 1.5L petrol would be real fun to drive.

Originally Posted by suhaas307

What Honda needs to address is the old car's lethargic character by tweaking the gear-ratios and bottom-end torque.

Totally agree to this. Hondas need to correct this inherent mistake in their petrol motors.

Originally Posted by @KP

Update from a dealer in HYD who didn't want to be named --

They are expecting a launch in Mar '15, worst case in Apr '15. No information given to them about price or features or variants. More details might be available by Feb-end. Keeping fingers crossed !!

Mar 2015 seems very exciting for prospective buyers like me. I will be buying either Elite i20 or Jazz after test driving both (and I would like that to happen by Jun / Jul 2015).

But somehow, Apr seems to be more plausible as I feel Honda is waiting for Union Budget 2015 to decide on the pricing.

[@KP]

Originally Posted by Vigkey

Well, I feel the market has matured a bit more and that is why premium hatchbacks like Elite i20 that costs much more than pseudo-Sedans like Xcent and has small overlap with proper Sedans like City and Verna are still selling very good numbers.

If the premium hatchback is really premium and has enough features for the price + a good engine + Honda brand, customer will not really care if Mobilio is available at the same / lesser price. Mobilio not premium in any angle.

While I agree that the market has matured, am very skeptical about Honda's ways. They really seem to be chasing profits linked to volumes. Why else would they side-step Vezel and focus on a Brio-based SUV ?

[ampere]

Originally Posted by Vigkey

Well, I feel the market has matured a bit more and that is why premium hatchbacks like Elite i20 that costs much more than pseudo-Sedans like Xcent and has small overlap with proper Sedans like City and Verna are still selling very good numbers.

Originally Posted by @KP

While I agree that the market has matured, am very skeptical about Honda's ways. They really seem to be chasing profits linked to volumes. Why else would they side-step Vezel and focus on a Brio-based SUV ?

I20 Diesel had much more to offer than the 1.2L Jazz in a time when petrol was costly and diesel the defacto option. In these times with pricing advantage evened out, it would be a different ball game. Honda has a diesel in its arsenal as well. In the petrol category, it also needs to have the 1.5L version of Jazz.

[CrAzY dRiVeR]

Originally Posted by nkishore_007

Honda, you got a reputation to maintain! I trust you are going through this thread, and the feedback, needs and wants are being judged and prioritised!

Not sure if anyone shared this video before, but sharing it anyways. Of course, taken different place & time.

https://m.Youtube.com/watch?feature=...&v=jF-Z5iM93Fw

Different place and time indeed.

Honda currently has the worst reputation in that price range with the Amaze (among other competing products from its segment), both in terms of product quality and reliability. Hope Jazz does better on these fronts.

The good thing however- Jazz would differ more from an Amaze, than an i20 Elite does from Xcent.

[Vigkey]

Originally Posted by ampere

I20 Diesel had much more to offer than the 1.2L Jazz in a time when petrol was costly and diesel the defacto option. In these times with pricing advantage evened out, it would be a different ball game. Honda has a diesel in its arsenal as well. In the petrol category, it also needs to have the 1.5L version of Jazz.

Agreed. I also see good potential for Jazz 1.5L iVTEC unless they price it too close to City. At least it gives us an additional option to own a powerful petrol hatchback.

Originally Posted by CrAzY dRiVeR

Honda currently has the worst reputation in that price range with the Amaze (among other competing products from its segment), both in terms of product quality and reliability.

CD, I agree on the quality front. But reliability? I know a lot of guys owning Amaze and haven't heard any complaints as such. Especially with regards to reliability. I agree there were some issues with hydrostatic locks. But I guess that was the only major issue. It was a design flaw, I agree. But I have seen much more happy and satisfied owners than the ones complaining on Amaze's reliability - both in real and online worlds.

Originally Posted by @KP

While I agree that the market has matured, am very skeptical about Honda's ways. They really seem to be chasing profits linked to volumes. Why else would they side-step Vezel and focus on a Brio-based SUV ?

Vezel is a different ballgame altogether. They did not bring it to India as they thought it cannot compete with the likes of Duster with respect to the price. Since they are entering a new segment, they don't want to take a risk. If they price it high like they did in previous generation Jazz the product will flop. Instead, they can design a new car on the cheaper Brio platform and price it lower and get much more success, just like Amaze. That I think is Honda's thought process here.

[CrAzY dRiVeR]

Originally Posted by Vigkey

CD, I agree on the quality front. But reliability? I know a lot of guys owning Amaze and haven't heard any complaints as such. Especially with regards to reliability.

http://www.team-bhp.com/forum/offici...ml#post3606071
http://www.team-bhp.com/forum/offici...ml#post3574086

Please read through the last pages of the TD thread.

Originally Posted by Vigkey

I agree there were some issues with hydrostatic locks. But I guess that was the only major issue. It was a design flaw, I agree. But I have seen much more happy and satisfied owners than the ones complaining on Amaze's reliability - both in real and online worlds.

Brake pads failing within 10k kms of replacement. Disks failing before 20k kms. Multiple owners reporting suspension components, leaking struts etc changed under warranty.
http://www.team-bhp.com/forum/offici...ml#post3607394
http://www.team-bhp.com/forum/offici...ml#post3620602
http://www.team-bhp.com/forum/offici...ml#post3623408

More design 'flaws' other than the hydrostatic locking issue include poor seatback design with many members reporting backpain issues, inadequate headlamps, Coupled with the issues arising out of poor quality, like the door not opening, rear view mirrors coming loose, door beadings coming off etc - its safe to assume a not-so-honda ownership experience now, can't we? Infact, if you see those posts - few members are visiting the dealership every 5k kilometers, rather than the company recommended 10k kms - to sort out various issues.

Flaws become reliability issues when it is not sorted by the company. Sadly Honda is not known to be proactive here as well, and customers end up paying from their pockets - as seen from the cases of the hydrostatic locks, brake replacements etc.

Hope Jazz doesn't fall to such low levels of quality due to the amount of cost cutting involved.

[Vigkey]

Originally Posted by CrAzY dRiVeR

Please read through the last pages of the TD thread.

Brake pads failing within 10k kms of replacement. Disks failing before 20k kms. Multiple owners reporting suspension components, leaking struts etc changed under warranty.

More design 'flaws' other than the hydrostatic locking issue include poor seatback design with many members reporting backpain issues, inadequate headlamps, Coupled with the issues arising out of poor quality, like the door not opening, rear view mirrors coming loose, door beadings coming off etc - its safe to assume a not-so-honda ownership experience now, can't we? Infact, if you see those posts - few members are visiting the dealership every 5k kilometers, rather than the company recommended 10k kms - to sort out various issues.

Flaws become reliability issues when it is not sorted by the company. Sadly Honda is not known to be proactive here as well, and customers end up paying from their pockets - as seen from the cases of the hydrostatic locks, brake replacements etc.

Hope Jazz doesn't fall to such low levels of quality due to the amount of cost cutting involved.

Ok. I was not aware of the brake pad wear issue which was commonly mentioned across the posts. However, I repeat. I had not heard any issues with Amaze from the owners I know. They were happy with their purchase generally and that is pretty much reflecting in the monthly sales as well.

Anyways, I don't want to take the discussion away from Jazz.

I too hope Jazz does not have too much of cost-cutting, visible or otherwise. Hope the quality levels are good and at least on par with the City (which itself is no great yardstick).

[h@r$h@l]

I know my post is not relevant to the Jazz in India. But here in Australia its the same car. I am on a look out for a car here and last weekend we visited the Honda showroom and had a look at Jazz. The AT variant here is considered to be one of the most fuel efficient cars. 5.6 / 100 kms. Which is pretty amazing.

Also, I have been talking to a couple of jazz owners and haven't heard of any issues. Some Jazz owners have driven them 40k kms +. One person in my office drives 175 kms each way to office and back. So that's 300 kms + each working day. He uses the jazz specially for its fuel economy and size is just perfect as a daily drive.

The prices here start from about $16k for MT & $17.5 for AT.

I am negotiating with a couple of dealers for a 2014 AT. IF I happen to get one, I shall surely post a few pics and may be start a ownership thread.

Regards,

[@KP]

I dunno if this is but I have a query

Let's say Honda launches Jazz manual now and I buy it. After say 6 months, if they launch auto, how easy/difficult will it be for me to exchange my manual car with auto model? Anyone here has had such experience before ? Maybe with Brio/i10/i20 ??

[drmohitg]

From a reliable source in Honda: There is no 1.5L petrol motor being planned for the Jazz. It will come with 1.2L motor only and will have both MT and CVT option. Also launch is mostly a few months away right now and should happen in the 2nd quarter.

[ampere]

Originally Posted by drmohitg

From a reliable source in Honda: There is no 1.5L petrol motor being planned for the Jazz. It will come with 1.2L motor only and will have both MT and CVT option. Also launch is mostly a few months away right now and should happen in the 2nd quarter.

I was hoping they would do a RS version of Jazz with 1.5 and keep the rest at 1.2. May be a 1.5 version later in the game? I would definitely prefer the 1.2 CVT for the city commute from an FE point of view! Ideal upgrade for me from the i10 AT

[drmohitg]

Originally Posted by ampere

I was hoping they would do a RS version of Jazz with 1.5 and keep the rest at 1.2. May be a 1.5 version later in the game? I would definitely prefer the 1.2 CVT for the city commute from an FE point of view! Ideal upgrade for me from the i10 AT

Well from a market point of view, I will tend to agree with there decision. Right now everyone is talking about the 1.5. But knowing Honda and the pricing, that car will then easily touch 9.5-10L OTR and that would be aggressive pricing from Honda. Otherwise it can be even more. In such a scenario most people will then point out the Japanese built and probably go for a polo or a C segment sedan. So the 1.2 makes more sense. I am myself ready with the booking amount for the CVT version.

[@KP]

Originally Posted by drmohitg

From a reliable source in Honda: There is no 1.5L petrol motor being planned for the Jazz. It will come with 1.2L motor only and will have both MT and CVT option. Also launch is mostly a few months away right now and should happen in the 2nd quarter.

2nd quarter..!! I hope its the early part of the quarter like Apr/May

Originally Posted by drmohitg

So the 1.2 makes more sense. I am myself ready with the booking amount for the CVT version.

1.2 does make sense giving the pricing constraints. Even am waiting with the booking amount for the CVT version

[drmohitg]

Originally Posted by @KP

I dunno if this is but I have a query

Let's say Honda launches Jazz manual now and I buy it. After say 6 months, if they launch auto, how easy/difficult will it be for me to exchange my manual car with auto model? Anyone here has had such experience before ? Maybe with Brio/i10/i20 ??

Haven't had such reckless experiences so far but the answer is simple. You will lose a lot of money in the process as the depreciation of the new car will be significant. So waiting for 6 months makes more sense for the AT variant rather than first buying MT and then going for the AT.