[Vigkey]

Originally Posted by chirag08

None of the reviewers have mentioned this yet, but the touchscreen unit looks like the one that was provided in the mobilio review cars and later on ditched due to its buggy nature

Yes Chirag, you are correct. This is the same unit that was initially offered in the Mobilio and later discarded. I hope the OE supplier would have worked on it and fixed the bugs and that could be the reason why Honda offered the same unit in all its cars over a period. Brio, Amaze, Mobilio, City and now Jazz offers the same touch-screen AVN unit. I will wait for my TD / Team-BHP review to see if they have really fixed it. As a small relied till then, most reviews have indicated that the touch-screen unit is quite decent, except for the legibility of the screen when sun shines on it.

Originally Posted by damager21

Top variants of Verna are more loaded with features than City yet they are priced on par or lower than City.

I guess you got it wrong here Damager21. Below are the prices from Hyundai and Honda websites.

Petrol - MT
Verna
Base (1.4 L) - 7.75 L
S - 8.81 L
S(O) - 9.34 L
SX - 10.11 L

City
E - 7.53 L
S - 8.19 L
SV - 8.78 L
V - 9.37 L
VX - 10.34 L

Diesel - MT
Verna
Base (1.4 L) - 9.02 L
S - 10 L
S(O) - 10.63 L
SX - 11.51 L

City
E - 8.75 L
S - 9.4 L
SV - 9.94 L
V - 10.55 L
VX - 11.53 L

Variant by variant City undercuts Verna or are at max pretty evenly priced. Only if you compare SX vs VX, there is a slight premium Honda commands and IMO it is a well deserved premium for providing features like Sunroof, Cruise Control, Rear AC, bigger HU, shark-fin antenna, touch screen ACC, etc. If you notice Hyundai has the audacity to price the base Verna with smaller engines over City's base variant. I would agree if you had brought up a City vs Ciaz, but not with City vs Verna. City is very well loaded and probably better than Verna.

I hope Honda follows similar pricing logic for the Jazz also. And since they are providing much lesser features for Jazz (compared to both i20 and City), it should not be very tough to price it on par, or even better, 10-15k lesser than i20. If they do that, we can expect a decent sales of 5-6k per month for Jazz. I am sure Honda would be happy if they can achieve 50% sales of i20 with what they offer with the Jazz.

Originally Posted by k_ajay

Excuse me, what is this Jazz brand that you're referring to? Even though it was a good car, the Jazz brand was a dud, as far as the Indian market is concerned.

Absolutely right Ajay. Jazz is no City and has no brand value attached to it in the minds of a common buyer. On the contrary, i20 is quite a brand now for Hyundai with very good fan following. What City is to Honda, i20 is to Hyundai. It will be impossible to beat i20 sales, whatever pricing Honda gives to Jazz. To beat Polo and give decent competition to i20, Honda should undercut the i20 by 5-10k at least.

[damager21]

Originally Posted by Vigkey

I guess you got it wrong here Damager21. Below are the prices from Hyundai and Honda websites.

Variant by variant City undercuts Verna or are at max pretty evenly priced. Only if you compare SX vs VX, there is a slight premium Honda commands and IMO it is a well deserved premium for providing features like Sunroof, Cruise Control, Rear AC, bigger HU, shark-fin antenna, touch screen ACC, etc. If you notice Hyundai has the audacity to price the base Verna with smaller engines over City's base variant.

The price quoted by me is same as what you have quoted so I dont see any discrepancy. I too pulled it from Honda and Hyundai website.

Also, I believe that top variant of Verna is better loaded and has features which City does not offer - Projector headlamp, Auto headlamp, R16 tyres, Side and curtain airbag, Height adjustable seat belts, Rain sensing wipers, Rear parking sensors, Glove box cooling, etc. and yet it is INR 22k cheaper than City VX.

The only point I was making is that Honda could get away pricing City on par or more than Verna but with all the cut down in features which we see in Jazz, I would expect Honda to price it lower than elite i20.

Also, Honda is playing safe by offering lesser features in Jazz not to cannibalize City sale. Also the reason why they are not offering VX (AT) is to ensure that sale of City E and S sales dont get impacted.

I hope they launch VX (AT) in the next few months if not now

[prithvibelli]

Originally Posted by heavenlybull

Quite true, although people like us are not too many in India! Recently a neighbor bought the top end Honda city petrol and when I asked him how is the car, he answered 'mast mileage hai' (car gives great mileage). I mean you just got a 'premium sedan' and of all the things, he liked mileage the best!

Jazz diesel will pull in a lot of customers if priced roughly alongside i20 diesel.

I quite disagree with this notion. Being premium does not mean that I should be getting shorychanged on fuel efficiency. In fact I feel a car is more premium in having smarter engineered product that has increased fuel efficiency.

[heavenlybull]

Originally Posted by prithvibelli

I quite disagree with this notion. Being premium does not mean that I should be getting shorychanged on fuel efficiency. In fact I feel a car is more premium in having smarter engineered product that has increased fuel efficiency.

The example was given just to highlight the fact that fuel efficiency figures are very important to most Indians and sometimes overshadow other positives/negatives of a car and since Jazz diesel has higher mileage figure than i20 diesel, it may tempt a lot of people towards it, if priced sanely.

PS: maybe we are going a bit off topic, so this will be my last post on the 'mileage mindset' debate in this thread.

[Vigkey]

Note: This will be my last post on the City vs Verna as it tends to go The reason why I am posting this response is because I believe this has bearing on the i20 vs Jazz pricing that is widely discussed in this thread.

Originally Posted by damager21

Also, I believe that top variant of Verna is better loaded and has features which City does not offer - Projector headlamp, Auto headlamp, R16 tyres, Side and curtain airbag, Height adjustable seat belts, Rain sensing wipers, Rear parking sensors, Glove box cooling, etc. and yet it is INR 22k cheaper than City VX.

Damager21, while I agree that Verna has a host of features absent in the City, the other way is also true. It is not going to be absolute is my point - it just depends on perception I guess.

One example is - Jazz is now panned for not offering rear AC vents (primarily because i20 and even Grand i10 offers them) but Verna does not have them (in spite of the recent face-lift and with competitor City having it).

I would say both Verna and City are premium sedans which are equally well loaded. i20 and Jazz are also well loaded premium hatchbacks but i20 is better loaded - and here with respect to features we have a winner. Engines are also even IMO - if one is refined and smooth but has some turbo lag, the other is drivable and economic sans any turbo lag. Since Jazz is less loaded and not as well built as i20, I repeat, there should not be any premium just for the Honda badge and the extra space (I would not have said this if the rear bench supported thighs better).

Peace!!!

[prithvibelli]

Originally Posted by heavenlybull

The example was given just to highlight the fact that fuel efficiency figures are very important to most Indians and sometimes overshadow other positives/negatives of a car and since Jazz diesel has higher mileage figure than i20 diesel, it may tempt a lot of people towards it, if priced sanely.

PS: maybe we are going a bit off topic, so this will be my last post on the 'mileage mindset' debate in this thread.

I did not mean to offend you buddy. I just believe this Indian attitude is leading the way for increased fuel efficiency throughout the world. This Indian attitude encourages the Manufacturers to give more fuel efficient cars, which trickles down to other markets as well. Just imagine the amount of fossil fuel saved. Well, we might just have saved this planet.

PS: We are way OT as you suggested. But couldn't resist the thought of saving the world with choosing the Jazz over i20.

[SchumiFan]

Originally Posted by prithvibelli

In fact I feel a car is more premium in having smarter engineered product that has increased fuel efficiency.

Honda 'premium' cars having to resort to 'kitna deti hai' technique to gain an upper hand.

There were a lot of accusations over Maruti cars focussing purely on mileage. Wonder if the same holds true for Honda now. After all they are also trying the same technique to sell cars now.

[MetalBuff]

Originally Posted by SchumiFan

Honda 'premium' cars having to resort to 'kitna deti hai' technique to gain an upper hand.

There were a lot of accusations over Maruti cars focussing purely on mileage. Wonder if the same holds true for Honda now. After all they are also trying the same technique to sell cars now.

See, there is nothing wrong in becoming like Maruti and providing what the mass wants - HIGH FUEL EFFICIENCY!!! But, at what cost? Diluting fundamentals and watering down the quality of the product? Sure, do that to an extent but, not so much that the customer feels shortchanged.

We've seen Honda's quality levels plummet to a very 'low' low with the Brio twins. The new City's quality levels aren't that great either for what a 1.2 million rupee car should have but, they do the job and are a thousand times better than it's German/ Czech counterparts.

Now, Honda is ex-Maruti. MSIL is trying to improve their products by upping the quality whereas, its the complete opposite with Honda. Doesn't end there. You are even expected to pay a handsome premium coz, it's a dang Honda.

For some reason due to their recent antics, Honda is gradually slipping down the list of "dream manufacturers" I thought my first car in India would be of (Have been a Honda fanboy for as long as I can remember . Sigh!

P.S.:- These are purely my opinions so, please do not flame me for this

Cheerio,
-Shivang Gandotra

[RavenAvi]

Originally Posted by SchumiFan

Honda 'premium' cars having to resort to 'kitna deti hai' technique to gain an upper hand.

There were a lot of accusations over Maruti cars focussing purely on mileage. Wonder if the same holds true for Honda now. After all they are also trying the same technique to sell cars now.

Honda Jazz enters the official "KITNA DETI HAI" charts, firmly embedding itself at the #2 spot.

Interestingly, unlike the downsized 2-pot (Celerio) and the 3-pot (Beat) mills, the Jazz's heart is a proper, full-sized 4-cylinder powertrain, which has achieved this remarkable ARAI-certified FE figure.

Point to Note:- The list of the top 10 most fuel-efficient cars in the country now has 4 Marutis in it, and 3 Hondas!


Motorbeam

[damager21]

Originally Posted by RavenAvi

Honda Jazz enters the official "KITNA DETI HAI" charts, firmly embedding itself at the #2 spot.

Interestingly, unlike the downsized 2-pot (Celerio) and the 3-pot (Beat) mills, the Jazz's heart is a proper, full-sized 4-cylinder powertrain, which has achieved this remarkable ARAI-certified FE figure.

Wonder why we do not see similar competition to achieve higher fuel efficiency in petrol cars. Why not chase 20kmpl+ figure in petrol? There is a whopping 8 kmpl difference between Diesel and Petrol Jazz.


Meanwhile IAB has put together a chart comparing Jazz with Elite i20, Polo, Swift, Bolt and Punto Evo
Petrol


Diesel

[@KP]

Originally Posted by damager21

Wonder why we do not see similar competition to achieve higher fuel efficiency in petrol cars. Why not chase 20kmpl+ figure in petrol? There is a whopping 8 kmpl difference between Diesel and Petrol Jazz.

Echo your thoughts here, damager.

We have gotten so used to equating mileage with diesel, time to ring in the change.


BTW, where is TBHP's official review,

[romeomidhun]

Originally Posted by damager21

Wonder why we do not see similar competition to achieve higher fuel efficiency in petrol cars. Why not chase 20kmpl+ figure in petrol? There is a whopping 8 kmpl difference between Diesel and Petrol Jazz.

IMO, that competition will start once all those turbo charged Petrol and hybrid petrol cars are introduced. Till then, we the customer have to compete with ourselves to achieve better FE every time!

[MetalBuff]

Originally Posted by @KP

BTW, where is TBHP's official review,

Oh yes, this has been bothering me for a while. Been checking every 30 mins since Saturday but,only to head back disappointed.

However, it is no secret that we have the most comprehensive reviews across. Where others provide superficial details with some basic pictures, our mods get into the smallest of crevices (rightly so!) and come back with their findings. With that in mind and also the intricate details that we have come to associate the reviews here with, I'm sure that it is a gargantuan effort which takes an equivalent effort to compose and post.

Till then, wait is all we can do as, we have something to look forward to - a dang detailed review

Originally Posted by RavenAvi

Honda Jazz enters the official "KITNA DETI HAI" charts, firmly embedding itself at the #2 spot.

Interestingly, unlike the downsized 2-pot (Celerio) and the 3-pot (Beat) mills, the Jazz's heart is a proper, full-sized 4-cylinder powertrain, which has achieved this remarkable ARAI-certified FE figure.

Attachment 1382110

Point to Note:- The list of the top 10 most fuel-efficient cars in the country now has 4 Marutis in it, and 3 Hondas!


Motorbeam

Ahem. Shouldn't Amaze be the most fuel efficient in the Honda clan? I was under the assumption that Amaze is the lightest of the 3 and so, by default would have clinched the pole position amongst the Hondas

Cheerio,
-Shivang Gandotra

[Vigkey]

Originally Posted by damager21

Meanwhile IAB has put together a chart comparing Jazz with Elite i20, Polo, Swift, Bolt and Punto Evo

The Petrol's power-to-weight ratios clearly show how light Swift (only one below a tonne) is and how heavy Punto and to an extent Bolt are.



By the way, any thoughts on why Jazz diesel's weight is not revealed yet? I mean, all specifications and features are revealed (though not officially) - how much importance does the weight hold in the specifications (except for the enthusiasts who compare the Power to weight and Torque to weight figures). Is there a possibility that they are still thinking of adding (or removing) any features? Or are they waiting for clearance from some official body - like ARAI?

The below image is that of the printed Technical Specifications sheet (probably given as handouts to the participants of media drive) from Rushlane review and if you notice, the weight of Jazz diesel was probably printed and later removed.

Originally Posted by @KP

BTW, where is TBHP's official review

Originally Posted by MetalBuff

Oh yes, this has been bothering me for a while. Been checking every 30 mins since Saturday but,only to head back disappointed.

Guess, we will have to wait a bit longer till the entire specifications and feature list is out for all variants.

Originally Posted by MetalBuff

Ahem. Shouldn't Amaze be the most fuel efficient in the Honda clan? I was under the assumption that Amaze is the lightest of the 3 and so, by default would have clinched the pole position amongst the Hondas

Well MetalBuff, Amaze is the lightest but it only gets a 5 speed gear-box. The 6th gear in City helped it gain the crown earlier. Now Jazz being lighter and also getting revised (taller) gear ratios means Jazz will get the crown - however that will come by sacrificing a bit on the 0-100 kmph timings.

[chaith.turbo]

Originally Posted by damager21

Why not chase 20kmpl+ figure in petrol? There is a whopping 8 kmpl difference between Diesel and Petrol Jazz.

This maybe OT, but just to clarify on this.

It is difficult to acheive 20+ kmpl in petrol engine, simply because Diesel has more energy and burns more efficiently. To be more precise, diesel contains 38.6 Mega Joules per litre of energy while petrol contains 34.8 MJ/L of energy.