[zenren]

Originally Posted by vibbs

he went on to add that a typical Tata car doing cab duty would require some major work on the engine by 70-80k kms.

Its the same story even with private ownership. We've had an Indica DLS in the family from 2004-2012 and sold off at around 75000km mark after getting two back to back 5 digit bills from the workshop. Mechanic advised that even bigger bills were round the corner.

Originally Posted by torquecurve

This is not a nitpick but just an observation.
Why is it that most people who keep bashing TATA cars are non owners? From what I have seen and experienced most people who own Tatas (even the older generation cars) swear by their reliability, comfort and ownership costs.
I own a Vista Safire, in my friend circle there is every single model currently sold by Tata, and all of them are happy with their vehicles.

Tata's in-house diesels are the really notorious ones, be it in Indica, Indigo or Safari. I know at least a couple of owners for each of these models personally and none of them replaced them with a Tata. TASS folks does have the knack of screwing up good cars over time once the service intervals dictate parts replacements.

An observation from my side is that most of the happy Tata owners seem to be owning petrols which haven't clocked much on the odo.

[kaviprem]

Originally Posted by zenren

...

An observation from my side is that most of the happy Tata owners seem to be owning petrols which haven't clocked much on the odo.

To me, you are almost in 180 degree phase out with your above observation. TATA's diesel engine is really good, both TDI and DICOR. Petrol was the one suffered [like XETA] and that was an added reason for TATA to go with FIAT's petrol engine for VISTA/MANZA.

There are still people who buy TDI engine over DICOR/QJT/MJT.

Personally, I had MARINA Petrol for about 50K KMs and sold off as I needed a bigger/safer SUV then. I am now running with 50K Safari.
I was and am happy with both the vehicles. But, yes, niggles are part of it, but nothing major yet !

I agree to the other poster who said, most of the critics are coming out of non-TATA owners OR who dont maintain properly as that of other expensive vehicles [be it Toyota or few Hyundai variants]. Main aim of TATA car buyers are to rip the car in few years and junk it and we will never get a good comment from them

yes, there are a lot of 2+ lakhs of KM on odo of Innova as compared to Safari, but, there are good number of 1.5 lakhs of KM on odo of Safari that are maintained well.

Prem.

[safari_lover]

AutocarIndia confirms the launch of Nano Twist, Nano with power steering on Jan 15th. No other changes.

source - http://www.autocarindia.com/auto-new...15-367311.aspx

[RSR]

The Nano is finally going to get the power steering it deserves. Even if it comes a couple of years too late, it's always better late than never!

If the Autocar report is to be believed, there will be no other changes. Which is a pity, really!

Apart from power steering, the Nano badly needs front disc brakes and 3-point ELR seat belts at the rear. They should also provide a 50-50 split folding rear seat for easier access to the boot, if it's too expensive to provide a rear hatch, as I believe the rear panel is welded to the monocoque chassis to improve safety.

On the topic of safety, why not throw in a couple of airbags, or at least a driver airbag? Tata did fit a driver airbag to the Nano in order to pass the legally required crash safety test conducted by a government agency in Britain. So they already have the required airbag module. Why not provide it on Nanos sold in India?

The Nano's chief competitors, the Alto800 and the Eon, already feature standard front disc brakes and 2 ELR rear seatbelts (+ centre lap belt) plus a driver airbag (on the top variant), apart from power steering, of course.

Sadly, Tata Motors seems to lack the competitive attitude required to excel in such a tough market. Their "Horizonext" strategy does not look ahead far enough, in my humble opinion. If it takes so long for them to add only a power steering to their most promising product and the one with the most potential, they only have themselves to blame for their sales woes.

[Mpower]

I think power steering should suffice for the moment.

That market segment does not care too much about ELR belts, disc brakes and airbags....not sure if even the Alto comes with airbags?

[volkman10]

SUMO branding to be dropped. could be called Grande!

Tata Motors will launch a heavily revamped Sumo Grande MUV. The Grande is likely to lose the Sumo branding and lots of weight. The MUV will take aim at the Bolero with improved fuel efficiency.

Tata Motors Limited is making sweeping changes across its product line up as a part of the HORIZONEXT strategy that was first revealed in the middle of this year. SUMO is next for the changes!

The changes will revolve under weight reduction, improved fuel efficiency, improved steering and revamped clutch.

Apart from the mechanical changes, the 2014 Grande will get revamped graphics to make it look fresher. The MUV could also see other minor visual changes. The revamped Grande will go on sale next year.


http://www.cartoq.com/cartoq-scoop-t...o-grande-soon/

[amtak]

Originally Posted by volkman10

SUMO branding to be dropped. could be called Grande!

Tata Motors will launch a heavily revamped Sumo Grande MUV. The Grande is likely to lose the Sumo branding and lots of weight. The MUV will take aim at the Bolero with improved fuel efficiency.

Tata Motors Limited is making sweeping changes across its product line up as a part of the HORIZONEXT strategy that was first revealed in the middle of this year. SUMO is next for the changes!

The changes will revolve under weight reduction, improved fuel efficiency, improved steering and revamped clutch.

Apart from the mechanical changes, the 2014 Grande will get revamped graphics to make it look fresher. The MUV could also see other minor visual changes. The revamped Grande will go on sale next year.


http://www.cartoq.com/cartoq-scoop-t...o-grande-soon/

They are doing the same mistake a earlier. Drop Sumo and Launch Grande. Whats the point? Everyone knows it as Sumo Grande and now Grande (with MKII in between). What the Grande needs is a new identity of its own. Improved driving dynamics and improved Fascia for one. In my feedback to TaMo; I had asked them to get rid of all the chrome on the truck and give it a honeycomb mesh grill. front bumper surely needs to be redesigned. Give it Projectors (I know I am asking for more!) and some safety kit for starters.

New Graphics? Ala Hero style?

[IndiFuture]

Didn't they do this once before? AFAIK, it didn't work. Hope this will be a brand new car that looks like Freelander.
Also, as part of strategy, any plans to launch the Marina? I would like to see a three row Marina as Datsun Go+ competitor.

[amtak]

Originally Posted by IndiFuture

Didn't they do this once before? AFAIK, it didn't work. Hope this will be a brand new car that looks like Freelander.
Also, as part of strategy, any plans to launch the Marina? I would like to see a three row Marina as Datsun Go+ competitor.

Yes, that have done that once earlier. For me, I love the looks of Grande, call me old school, I like the Grande. However, at the end of the day, I want quality plastics and ergonomically designed interior. Heck, even Tupperware bottles have better fit and finish.

I don't see them launching a Marina again; It was a nice car; perfect for Taxi usage. They should explore this option again.

[zenren]

Originally Posted by IndiFuture

Didn't they do this once before? AFAIK, it didn't work. Hope this will be a brand new car that looks like Freelander.
Also, as part of strategy, any plans to launch the Marina? I would like to see a three row Marina as Datsun Go+ competitor.

For those who want an affordable 7/8-seater from Tata, there is always Sumo/Grande. For a more premium option, they have the Safari. I'm not sure if a 7-seater Marina is going to be a game-changer. If they resolve the perception around the quality issues with their products, they should get back to being a strong contender in UV space that they were 10 years back. Without that change, even new products are not going to make a big impact.

[IndiFuture]

Originally Posted by zenren

For those who want an affordable 7/8-seater from Tata, there is always Sumo/Grande. For a more premium option, they have the Safari. I'm not sure if a 7-seater Marina is going to be a game-changer. If they resolve the perception around the quality issues with their products, they should get back to being a strong contender in UV space that they were 10 years back. Without that change, even new products are not going to make a big impact.

+1 on the quality point.
Regarding the UV scenario, I feel that a 7 seater estate might take the market by storm, much like the compact SUV. Watch out for Go+, its not an UV but an estate. Private buyers who dont want a taxi like UV will definitely be interested. But since Tata already had the estate, just fitting extra seats might help it sell good numbers, which Aria couldn't.

[undead]

Originally Posted by Mpower

I think power steering should suffice for the moment.

That market segment does not care too much about ELR belts, disc brakes and airbags....not sure if even the Alto comes with airbags?

+1 . Power steering is the welcome addition for the Nano. For this price segment , power and acceleration of the Nano and being primarily a city car, this is enough to boost the sales a little.

[apachelongbow]

Originally Posted by kaviprem

To me, you are almost in 180 degree phase out with your above observation. TATA's diesel engine is really good, both TDI and DICOR. Petrol was the one suffered [like XETA] and that was an added reason for TATA to go with FIAT's petrol engine for VISTA/MANZA.

buyers are to rip the car in few years and junk it and we will never get a good comment from them

yes, there are a lot of 2+ lakhs of KM on odo of Innova as compared to Safari, but, there are good number of 1.5 lakhs of KM on odo of Safari that are maintained well.

Prem.

I fully agree with you. Especially for the Safari, maximum negative comments come from people who don't own one or haven't driven one! I for one, don't have a single niggle in my 2012 Gx, which I have driven well over 25000 Kms now. I believe the initial lot of 2.2 dicor engines were full of bugs, now that they are ironed out, the Safari is as reliable or unrealisable as the SUVs from the next competitor. I know of at least 5 Safari 2.2 owners in my near friends circle who are extremely happy and possessive about their cars, and 2 of them have their cars touch 130k and 180k Kms respectively.

[lifebuoy]

Originally Posted by amtak

Heck, even Tupperware bottles have better fit and finish.

I don't see them launching a Marina again; It was a nice car; perfect for Taxi usage. They should explore this option again.

Have you ever seen the sticker price on the Tupperware bottles friend ? At that price point, you must look at the Fortuner upwards, not at the Sumo.

The Marina should be launched for the Taxi segment, however, the 7 seater option does not appeal to me. It is the luggage area that mattered for long drives, especially with a family. The body has proven itself over the years, coupled with a better tuned (read more power) CR4 engine may be a best seller !

Originally Posted by IndiFuture

+1 on the quality point.
But since Tata already had the estate, just fitting extra seats might help it sell good numbers, which Aria couldn't.

The Aria was and is TATA's premium product. The facts against it are:
1. Perceived price too high.
2. Car like or MUV like looks. Anyone paying that price looks for a butch like vehicle to bolster the male ego, which the ARIA simply can't. (the likes of the Safari / Scorp do that).
3. I have seen a slow but steady increase in the ARIA sales, maybe it's time the junta have actually noticed this very capable machine in the ever rising Innova's sticker price ?

Originally Posted by undead

+1 . Power steering is the welcome addition for the Nano. For this price segment , power and acceleration of the Nano and being primarily a city car, this is enough to boost the sales a little.

+1 to that. A PS on the Nano would do wonders. The diesel engine will surely add to the numbers, Sanand will come over to at least half capacity !

Originally Posted by apachelongbow

I know of at least 5 Safari 2.2 owners in my near friends circle who are extremely happy and possessive about their cars, and 2 of them have their cars touch 130k and 180k Kms respectively.

The sales of the Storme picking up is a reason Mahindra may be worried about. The bumper discounts that TATA were offering are also being offered across all variants of the XUV now.

The Safari is a proven vehicle, made even better in the Storme. Is there a competitor who has a bug free aspirant (at that price point with similar capabilities ?)

[motorworks]

Have seen the new indica / falcon spy shots and it looks very similar to the current vista and I hope its not a all new car. If its a vista refresh its going to be a stop gap arrangement until an all new hatch / sedan come up.
More than the cars, its the perception that Tata should strive to change. They should just stop selling Indicas to the public and restrict it to a taxi. They could sell it in their commercial vehicle division and that will change the perception of the customer who is walking in to the showroom. Tata cannot continue to sell decade old products like the indica, sumo and expect the customer to perceive them differently.
But to be honest, I really have no hopes of a great Tata revival. They have lost it and its too late now. The new safari looks like the old one, Manza CS seems to be coming forever, no replacement for the 17 year old Sumo and finally the nano which even with a diesel will not make sense.