[vibbs]

Originally Posted by Nilesh5417

I don't think this is a segment where snob rules. At least not anymore i think. This is now a segment where people look for the most from the brand they buy. People do have sufficient money and that reflects in the numbers the C-Segment sedans do today.

Yes many people have money to buy a C-segment car today, and most of them will be willing to pay that bit more extra to get a better/ wholesome packet. VFM in this segment has to truly have 'value', not just economics. And I believe this is still a segment where most people will NOT buy a Maruti, just because it is a Maruti. If Maruti needs to crack it, they need to compete with the others on all parameters not just the price.

Originally Posted by Nilesh5417

Maruti couldn't crack it cause all its efforts were extremely halfhearted and / or half-baked. Even today, Maruti is a brand that will pull people into the showrooms sufficiently to hurt Hyundai or Honda but it definitely needs to meet the basic expectations people today have from C-Segment cars. But they just don't seem to have invested enough in their sedan portfolio above the Dzire segment ever! They are definitely late to the party with all other manufacturers having given 3rd or 4th generations of their sedans. But i hope that if they can't really differentiate themselves much from the crowd, they stand true to the brand they are and the YL1 turns out to be - frugal, well priced, spacious & decently equipped car.

When the SX4 first came, it was a decent match to the segment, till the City spoiled its party. To me, this seems to be a half hearted attempt. How difficult is it for them to develop a diesel engine after this many years? They still believe they can sell decent numbers in a segment with an engine that is outmatched by almost every other on offer? Well good luck to them. I am not too optimistic unless they surprise me with what is on offer in terms of features, space, quality and ofcourse price.

Originally Posted by Nilesh5417

Even Honda suffered in spite of their badge and ultimately had to really fix things in the City for it to really rack up the numbers it did now. And the Corolla doesn't sell anymore i guess. Just not in the league of what Verna or City do. Again, the badge couldn't save a simply outdated, stop-gap arrangement for a car.

The city suffered primarily because of the lack of a diesel engine. And the cars that gave City sleepless nights were Vento (when it was launched) and the new Verna. Infact it should be Verna, Maruti should be looking at. Hyundai was another company that seemed to not be able to crack the upper segments. But they did it, and how? By having cars that beat the opposition in almost every aspect that the man on street would care for. Take a look at the Verna. Cracker of an engine, good looks, and interiors that will do a higher segment car proud. Can we possibly say the same for YL1? Every new launch needs to be one step ahead of what is already in offer. It is getting competitive out there.

Corolla is not a competition to Verna or City. It is a segment above, along with Laura, cruze and probably Elantra, where Civic used to be. And it still is selling as per the segment sales, though the Elantra and Octavia better it. When was the last time Toyota gave an upgrade (a proper one) to the Corolla?

However the same badge does nothing for the Liva (compared to the segment toppers) in a segment where the values are different. That is exactly I am trying to say. The sedan will sit in a segment where people want a different set of things than what Maruti has been known for. The 'T' or 'H' or 'H' carries more glamour than the S here. So its already on backfoot here and should probably try and go all out on other fronts.

[IshaanIan]

Originally Posted by romeomidhun

'Suzuki Ciaz' has a good flow to say, imo. I remember the Suzuki bike named 'Seuz'.

Does have a nice flow to it

Oh and I think the bike you were talking about was the Zeus? After the father of Greek gods that is.

Coming to the car, I can safely say that this will be successful based on the displayed work that has gone into the interiors, the claimed kit it comes with and the styling (and ofcourse the A.S.S. and network that comes with the brand). People like us might whine about the motor but the rest of the market wouldn't care imo.

[rajneeesh]

This market is also getting segmented. The higher end will have the Verna 1.6 and upper variants of the City, Vento& Rapid. The lower end will have the likes of Verna 1.4
( CX variant just introduced), the SX4 replacement and the lower variants of the City , Vento, Rapid and FIAT Linea.

As pointed out by Vibbs, the SX 4 had started very strongly. The newer and better products and lack of a diesel variant, cut its party short. MSIL still has the reach in areas where all other manufacturers save Hyundai are not present. this will enable it to get some numbers. I just hope that its interiors are different from the Dzire. MSIL has stretched the common parts thingy a bit too much to the detriment of the SX4.

[aniketi]

Originally Posted by rajneeesh

I just hope that its interiors are different from the Dzire. MSIL has stretched the common parts thingy a bit too much to the detriment of the SX4.

I guess you have not seen the actual photos in this thread. On the very first page itself, it has lots of photos. The interiors are completely new and it looks like they are similar to the Vento style. Please have a look at it.

Maruti is trying to give its best shot with this car. They are not doing any half hearted effort this time. They want success in this segment. They will try their best for sure. I am very keen on this car. If priced well, this Diwali i can change my DZire to buy one All the best Maruti.

[saket77]

Sorry, but for me, the car does not look inspiring. Similar to the SX4, the car is all good but not desirable.
The Suzuki newly found family face is not doing justice to a car in this segment. The Swift, Ritz, or even the Kizashi have been sharing similar frontal looks if not identical. The dashboard is lagging when you see the competition, esp to the 2014 Honda City, and IMO looks basic in comparison. I hope the production cars have a better front grille and a better side profile apart from better interiors.

And it will rather be very tough for Maruti to break into this segment successfully because of their own image. A customer paying 7-8 lacs, apart from a premium car also looks for a premium brand, which is not Maruti's best forte I guess. Maruti, by now has been stereotyped as a car best suited for entry level or the mid level at the most. Anyone paying about 8 lacs would want a 'uniqueness' factor and this plays against Maruti.

Hyundai was quicker to break into the C segment before it was perceived as budget car maker, and this has worked for them in selling the Verna. The only positive factor for Maruti is their fantastic after sales and low cost of ownership apart from reliability. The buyers looking for these will go for the YL1 on the basis of what Maruti is capable of delivering after sales.

[heysac]

Originally Posted by Nilesh5417

Maruti couldn't crack it cause all its efforts were extremely halfhearted and / or half-baked. Even today, Maruti is a brand that will pull people into the showrooms sufficiently to hurt Hyundai or Honda but it definitely needs to meet the basic expectations people today have from C-Segment cars. But they just don't seem to have invested enough in their sedan portfolio above the Dzire segment ever!

Suzuki has never been a medium/big car player worldwide. It is know for small and compact cars only. Their DNA is compact cars and it is not easy for them to have a blockbuster in C/D segment.

Even YL1 will be based on the Swift platform which is not really a C segment platform!

[volkman10]

Financial Express on CIAZ( YL1)

In India, the Ciaz is expected to come with a 1.4-litre K-Series petrol engine that today does duty on the Ertiga, and a 1.6-litre diesel engine, which will likely be sourced from Fiat

The Ciaz will also be sold in China, West Asia and Africa, where kits are expected to be exported from India. The Ciaz will compete with segment leader Hyundai Verna, besides others like the Honda City and Volkswagen Vento.

Launch during the festive season.The company is targeting initial volumes of about 50,000 a year with exports.

Cheers!

[romeomidhun]

Originally Posted by volkman10

Financial Express on CIAZ( YL1)

I wish Ciaz to have 4 engine options: 1.4L K-series Petrol, 1.6L M-series Petrol, 1.3L 90BHP DDiS Diesel, 1.6L 120BHP DDiS Diesel!

[vibbs]

Originally Posted by romeomidhun

I wish Ciaz to have 4 engine options: 1.4L K-series Petrol, 1.6L M-series Petrol, 1.3L 90BHP DDiS Diesel, 1.6L 120BHP DDiS Diesel!

If that happens, I ll put my money down on this being the next big thing for Maruti after the swift and a car that will redefine Maruti when it comes to C segment.

The big news is the 1.6 MJD. I m sure with this Maruti will be ready to take the competition head on. This is an engine that will give tough fight to the competition when it comes to performance as well as mileage and knowing Maruti I can almost be sure to expect them to tune it way better than what Fiat has been doing in their cars.

I would still be a bit sceptical on how Maruti will match up with the competition in terms of interior quality. But a great news nevertheless and a huge boost as well for them.

Oh yeah and Fiat all the best for the Linea when it is finally launched after their 1.6 MJD has set the market on fire onboard a Maruti yet again. Or should I say Rest in Peace. :banghead:

[CARDEEP]

Originally Posted by volkman10

Financial Express on CIAZ( YL1)



The Ciaz will also be sold in China, West Asia and Africa, where kits are expected to be exported from India. The Ciaz will compete with segment leader Hyundai Verna, besides others like the Honda City and Volkswagen Vento.

Launch during the festive season.The company is targeting initial volumes of about 50,000 a year with exports.

Cheers!

IMO 1.6L MJD is wishful thinking, still if MS manages to bring it to India it would only open the flood gates of initial booking & City diesel will have minimal waiting period.

But, to be practical, if the 1.25 MJD with VGT is good enough for heavier vehicles, why should MS bother for a new engine, after all it would involve investing money & efforts on new engine lines, tools/ dies, training, etc. Also, this could delay the launch of the car, which is long overdue in wake of increasing competition.

[swiftnfurious]

Originally Posted by volkman10

Financial Express on CIAZ( YL1)

Looking at the very first point on the very first post of this thread, I would take the above statement with a sack of salt. Nothing wrong in hoping so but - I indeed hope it's true to have a 1.6L MJD under the hood.

Originally Posted by .anshuman

Little Birdie dropped some details about the Maruti Suzuki Project YL1, a Vento sized sedan which might replace the ageing SX4 sedan.

Details-

• Will have 1.3 DDIS 90hp Diesel and 1.4 K series Petrol motors from Ertiga....

[volkman10]

Originally Posted by CARDEEP

IMO 1.6L MJD is wishful thinking

Originally Posted by swiftnfurious

Looking at the very first point on the very first post of this thread, I would take the above statement with a sack of salt.

Here is my take on the 1.6MJD.

SX4 S Cross is to be launched in India late 2014 or early 2015. Diesel options will be the 1.3 DDIS and the imported 1.6MJD from FIAT.

The first is already made here, so the plan is to initially import the 1.6-litre diesel engine from Fiat and if the volumes are significantly high, then locally manufacture it afterwards depending on the licence agreement with Fiat.

This engine(1.6MJD) will be also introduced in CIAZ as a variant along with the 1.3MJD , and would be priced accordingly as the same would be imported.

The 1.6MJD when localised would be an option in the upcoming UVs as well.

Incidentally, parent Suzuki already sources the same 1.6-litre diesel engine for the SX4 S-Cross model made its European plant in Hungary.

Suzuki's rapport with FIAT on the Engine sharing seem to be very cordial

Cheers!

[CARDEEP]

Originally Posted by volkman10

Here is my take on the 1.6MJD.

SX4 S Cross is to be launched in India late 2014 or early 2015. Diesel options will be the 1.3 DDIS and the imported 1.6MJD from FIAT.

The first is already made here, so the plan is to initially import the 1.6-litre diesel engine from Fiat and if the volumes are significantly high, then locally manufacture it afterwards depending on the licence agreement with Fiat.

This engine(1.6MJD) will be also introduced in CIAZ, and would be priced accordingly as the same would be imported.

The 1.6MJD when localised would be an option in the upcoming UVs as well.

Incidentally, parent Suzuki already sources the same 1.6-litre diesel engine for the SX4 S-Cross model made its European plant in Hungary.

Suzuki's rapport with FIAT on the Engine sharing seem to be very cordial

Cheers!

Thanks for the detailed analysis. IMO the Ciaz will loose its money competitive edge in this case, & we had been discussing the same few pages earlier in the thread.

[volkman10]

Originally Posted by CARDEEP

Thanks for the detailed analysis. IMO the Ciaz will loose its money competitive edge in this case, & we had been discussing the same few pages earlier in the thread.

Two varaints of diesels, the standard 1.3DDIS and the speculated 1.6MJD, so there is no question of losing the competitive edge. In summary pricing would be the decider in the success of the CIAZ.
The logic will hold good for the SX4 S cross too.

The future for the 1.6MJD in Maruti's perspective will depend on the market demand for the same when launched.

Cheers!

[vibbs]

Originally Posted by volkman10

Here is my take on the 1.6MJD.


The first is already made here, so the plan is to initially import the 1.6-litre diesel engine from Fiat and if the volumes are significantly high, then locally manufacture it afterwards depending on the licence agreement with Fiat.

This engine(1.6MJD) will be also introduced in CIAZ as a variant along with the 1.3MJD , and would be priced accordingly as the same would be imported.

The 1.6MJD when localised would be an option in the upcoming UVs as well.



Cheers!

Two questions come to my mind.

1. Will it be a FGT (105 bhp) or the VGT (120 bhp)?

2. If it is the FGT, will it justify price premium (which might be significant because of importing) over the 1.3 (90 hp) DDIS?

If the 1.6Mjd is imported, Maruti may not be able to price it well and it may not go down well and they may never end up getting the volumes high enough for justifying local production, atleast not till they come up with more models to use the engine. By the time S-cross comes it will be too late for Ciaz. A price cut later on may not help even if the product is good. We ve had a few examples of that already.