TATA v/s M&M

Cartman · 15th January 2010, 20:48

They better fight on for our good. Tata has good products, but the quality can improve! Mahindra, well, I can't find any flaw!
Whatever happens, I'm sure, they'll keep the Indian automotive flag flying high!

DCEite · 15th January 2010, 20:51

Thread already exists.
http://www.team-bhp.com/forum/indian...a-v-s-m-m.html

binaiks · 15th January 2010, 22:11

Quote:

Originally Posted by raj_5004

as said by many, i agree that tata excels in the product portfolio, value for money & innovation. where they lack is quality, reliability & brand image.

Can't be put in a better way

During my visit to TATA showrooms for the Punto, we had gone through the Indica range in much detail. (I guess all of us would agree with the usage "range" with Indica - they have hell lot of variants in the Indica). Although TATA has innovative ideas, and give out value for money products, their products lack quality - badly fitting plastics, rusting wheels, ill-fitting body claddings, etc were the most common "features" seen on showroom cars!

I am not joking - the Indica Xeta displayed at one TATA dealer had rust on all its wheels, and the plastic claddings below the door were already falling off - and I am talking of a display car. (Agreed that this is a fault of the dealer, but as a major business conglomerate, TATA had the moral responsibility to ensure its dealers keep up the name of the group).

Quote:

Originally Posted by raj_5004

i just wish mahindra hires better designers though.

Yeah - some one who can get rid of the silver tooth (I love it though) and the smiley faced grille on all their products.

vinaydas · 15th January 2010, 23:22

mahindra any day.
they have been in the experience of making jeeps close to 50 years. Those old jeeps are still running around aint it?
Hell a brand new safari cannot be trusted ,it may breakdown any moment.
But on the whole mahindra has achieved experience and refinement in the field of automobiles which tata can only dream about.

According to me Tata is a brand which literally jumps into everything and grabs every small oppurtunity it gets , even if it means them not having no experience in that field, they just want to be the first company that did it thats all.
But mahindra takes a more calm and calculated approach.
Hardcore tata fans will not agree with my post but its about time they start noticing things

but i do have to agree im not too impressed with mahindra's design's .
why? because they try to incorporate the essence of their legendary jeeps in every model that they have which sometimes does not suit the car(but love the scorpio though).

Amartya · 16th January 2010, 02:42

Quote:

Originally Posted by vinaydas

mahindra any day.
they have been in the experience of making jeeps close to 50 years. Those old jeeps are still running around aint it?
Hell a brand new safari cannot be trusted ,it may breakdown any moment.
But on the whole mahindra has achieved experience and refinement in the field of automobiles which tata can only dream about.

According to me Tata is a brand which literally jumps into everything and grabs every small oppurtunity it gets , even if it means them not having no experience in that field, they just want to be the first company that did it thats all.
But mahindra takes a more calm and calculated approach.
Hardcore tata fans will not agree with my post but its about time they start noticing things

You must be kidding, Mahindra having "achieved experience and refinement in the field of automobiles", can I challenge you to give one example?
I am proud of both Tata and Mahindra as our homegrown manufacturers, but it doesn't make me blind to their faults. The jeeps that you quote as being reliable were so because they were 50 year old designs with the complexity of a bullock cart. Sorry to say this but your post reeks of bias.

BlackPearl · 16th January 2010, 06:21

I love and respect both the companies but TATA is a bit ahead. My vote goes for TATA.

4x4addict · 16th January 2010, 08:23

i feel that Tata products are better from a conceptualization and design standpoint. They fail in the execution and quality control of the product. If only they put more effort into quality control, there is no stopping Tata.

Mahindra, I feel is just the opposite. Their products are above average, but their strength is execution, quality control and build quality.

StarVegabond · 16th January 2010, 08:50

Who is better ?... Tata or M&M

What is the definition of better ?

Better can be in different spaces

Management vision : Tata >> M&M
Financial Strength : Certainly Tata's are superior
Industrial Strength : Certainly Tata's are better
Scale of operations : Tata >> M&M.
Innovation : Tata > M&M
International Exposure : At par
Ability to pull off a JV : Tata better than M&M
Distribution / Sales NW : Tata better than M&M
After Sales Servcie NW : Tata better than M&M
A.S.S. Experience : I do not own both, hence it is my feeling that M&M is slightly better
Product Roadmap : Tata better suited for majority of India market than M&M
Positioning : Tata positioned in more segments than M&M
Profitability : At this moment i do not have access to financials
Long term sustainability : I feel Tata's are positioned for long term success than M&M based on all above.

ahuja365 · 16th January 2010, 14:58

Considering safety iot has to be tata

valapad · 16th January 2010, 16:57

My Vote Goes for Mahindra,100% better than TATA Vehicles.

agbenny · 16th January 2010, 20:17

I liked the reply by StarVegabond.

But my vote goes for M&M, they entered late in to the passenger vehicle segment, but going stronger with smaller steps (unlike JVs like JLR by Tata), and improved a lot with their vehicles.
They are also into trucks now, But the quality seems to be lot better than decades old Tata Trucks.
Tata is into car segment, which is missing from M&M but they are into Two wheelers, which was missed by Tata.

Personally I preferred a M&M vehicle after testing Tata's contender.

arunpn · 17th January 2010, 00:10

Quote:

Originally Posted by kpzen

In the engine deptt M&M scores more than TATA else both are same

That is because Scorpio engines were developed by Bosch Germany whereas Tata Engines are from its own stable.

teamveevee · 17th January 2010, 05:14

I think TM, AL and MM are the big 3 of the Indian Automobile Sector and would like all the 3 to succeed and hope what happened to US big 3 will not happen to Indias Big 3. Having said that, I think with in 5 years, MM will over take AL and TM will be still No 1. I really doubt M&M vehicles are much better quality than TM, But defenitely TM vehicles drive better than MM vehicles. TM, got better management, Ratan Tata is a big motivator and passionate about vehicles and what he do. On the otherhand Anand Mahindra lacks passion and vision, Pawan Goenka lacks experience running a big company.
Tata name and Tata vehicles got International recognition, where as M&M is known around the world more as a Low end Tractor manufacturer. As NYSE listed company, whatever TM does is international news, and now they cannot afford to make low quality products. TM vehicles quality will improve drastically in the coming years. As an Indian i am proud of Tata group and what they are doing to India.

getsurya · 17th January 2010, 07:12

Quote:

i feel that Tata products are better from a conceptualization and design standpoint. They fail in the execution and quality control of the product. If only they put more effort into quality control, there is no stopping Tata.

Mahindra, I feel is just the opposite. Their products are above average, but their strength is execution, quality control and build quality

I echo 4X4's summary as above. The cost of maintenance area, M&M is economical than TATA-for sure.

My Vote goes for M&M as had experiences with both manufacturers.

MileCruncher · 17th January 2010, 11:55

Much water has flowed through the Ganga & Yamuna (desi version) since the debate has started. Both M&M and TATA are unique and appreciable in their own ways:
TATA

Bringing in the NANO and getting a paradigm shift in automotive manufacturing.
Going global through Corus, Daewoo and JLR acquisition.
Massive brand equity globally.
Presence across most of the segments in the auto industry.

M&M

Only automotive player in India to have won the Deming's Award for quality and systems.
Present in almost all segment including 2 wheelers where TATA is absent at present.
Diversified from auto into aerospace manufacturing as well.

As Anand Mahindra wrote on twitter that they only want to emulate TATA's and grow as one of the founder's of M&M (AM's Grandfather) was a GM in TATA's. So I would like both these companies to grow and achieve fame globally.

View Poll Results: Which one is better?
TATA	94	57.32%
M&M	70	42.68%
Voters: 164. You may not vote on this poll

15th January 2010, 20:48	#46
Cartman BHPian Join Date: Nov 2009 Location: Mumbai Posts: 411 Thanked: 244 Times	They better fight on for our good. Tata has good products, but the quality can improve! Mahindra, well, I can't find any flaw! Whatever happens, I'm sure, they'll keep the Indian automotive flag flying high!
	() Thanks

15th January 2010, 20:51	#47
DCEite Senior - BHPian Join Date: Sep 2004 Location: NCR Posts: 3,417 Thanked: 2,551 Times	Thread already exists. http://www.team-bhp.com/forum/indian...a-v-s-m-m.html
	() Thanks

15th January 2010, 23:22	#49
vinaydas Senior - BHPian Join Date: Apr 2007 Location: Bengaluru Posts: 1,399 Thanked: 148 Times	mahindra any day. they have been in the experience of making jeeps close to 50 years. Those old jeeps are still running around aint it? Hell a brand new safari cannot be trusted ,it may breakdown any moment. But on the whole mahindra has achieved experience and refinement in the field of automobiles which tata can only dream about. According to me Tata is a brand which literally jumps into everything and grabs every small oppurtunity it gets , even if it means them not having no experience in that field, they just want to be the first company that did it thats all. But mahindra takes a more calm and calculated approach. Hardcore tata fans will not agree with my post but its about time they start noticing things but i do have to agree im not too impressed with mahindra's design's . why? because they try to incorporate the essence of their legendary jeeps in every model that they have which sometimes does not suit the car(but love the scorpio though).
	() Thanks

16th January 2010, 06:21	#51
BlackPearl Team-BHP Support Join Date: Aug 2005 Location: Calcutta/London Posts: 3,608 Thanked: 16,998 Times View My Garage	I love and respect both the companies but TATA is a bit ahead. My vote goes for TATA.
	() Thanks

16th January 2010, 08:23	#52
4x4addict Distinguished - BHPian Join Date: Nov 2007 Location: Chennai Posts: 4,483 Thanked: 4,531 Times View My Garage Infractions: 0/1 (5)	i feel that Tata products are better from a conceptualization and design standpoint. They fail in the execution and quality control of the product. If only they put more effort into quality control, there is no stopping Tata. Mahindra, I feel is just the opposite. Their products are above average, but their strength is execution, quality control and build quality.
	() Thanks

16th January 2010, 08:50	#53
StarVegabond Senior - BHPian Join Date: Sep 2008 Location: Bangalore Posts: 1,891 Thanked: 42 Times	Who is better ?... Tata or M&M What is the definition of better ? Better can be in different spaces Management vision : Tata >> M&M Financial Strength : Certainly Tata's are superior Industrial Strength : Certainly Tata's are better Scale of operations : Tata >> M&M. Innovation : Tata > M&M International Exposure : At par Ability to pull off a JV : Tata better than M&M Distribution / Sales NW : Tata better than M&M After Sales Servcie NW : Tata better than M&M A.S.S. Experience : I do not own both, hence it is my feeling that M&M is slightly better Product Roadmap : Tata better suited for majority of India market than M&M Positioning : Tata positioned in more segments than M&M Profitability : At this moment i do not have access to financials Long term sustainability : I feel Tata's are positioned for long term success than M&M based on all above.
	() Thanks

16th January 2010, 14:58	#54
ahuja365 BHPian Join Date: Aug 2008 Location: Jamshedpur Posts: 216 Thanked: 16 Times	Considering safety iot has to be tata
	() Thanks

16th January 2010, 16:57	#55
valapad BHPian Join Date: Aug 2009 Location: KL-08 Posts: 97 Thanked: 59 Times View My Garage	My Vote Goes for Mahindra,100% better than TATA Vehicles.
	() Thanks

16th January 2010, 20:17	#56
agbenny Senior - BHPian Join Date: Sep 2006 Location: TN38 Posts: 1,069 Thanked: 276 Times	I liked the reply by StarVegabond. But my vote goes for M&M, they entered late in to the passenger vehicle segment, but going stronger with smaller steps (unlike JVs like JLR by Tata), and improved a lot with their vehicles. They are also into trucks now, But the quality seems to be lot better than decades old Tata Trucks. Tata is into car segment, which is missing from M&M but they are into Two wheelers, which was missed by Tata. Personally I preferred a M&M vehicle after testing Tata's contender.
	() Thanks

17th January 2010, 05:14	#58
teamveevee Senior - BHPian Join Date: Jun 2009 Location: Kottayam Posts: 1,081 Thanked: 155 Times	I think TM, AL and MM are the big 3 of the Indian Automobile Sector and would like all the 3 to succeed and hope what happened to US big 3 will not happen to Indias Big 3. Having said that, I think with in 5 years, MM will over take AL and TM will be still No 1. I really doubt M&M vehicles are much better quality than TM, But defenitely TM vehicles drive better than MM vehicles. TM, got better management, Ratan Tata is a big motivator and passionate about vehicles and what he do. On the otherhand Anand Mahindra lacks passion and vision, Pawan Goenka lacks experience running a big company. Tata name and Tata vehicles got International recognition, where as M&M is known around the world more as a Low end Tractor manufacturer. As NYSE listed company, whatever TM does is international news, and now they cannot afford to make low quality products. TM vehicles quality will improve drastically in the coming years. As an Indian i am proud of Tata group and what they are doing to India. Last edited by teamveevee : 17th January 2010 at 05:21.
	() Thanks

17th January 2010, 11:55	#60
MileCruncher Senior - BHPian Join Date: Jan 2009 Location: MH01 Posts: 4,235 Thanked: 592 Times View My Garage	Much water has flowed through the Ganga & Yamuna (desi version) since the debate has started. Both M&M and TATA are unique and appreciable in their own ways: TATA Bringing in the NANO and getting a paradigm shift in automotive manufacturing. Going global through Corus, Daewoo and JLR acquisition. Massive brand equity globally. Presence across most of the segments in the auto industry. M&M Only automotive player in India to have won the Deming's Award for quality and systems. Present in almost all segment including 2 wheelers where TATA is absent at present. Diversified from auto into aerospace manufacturing as well. As Anand Mahindra wrote on twitter that they only want to emulate TATA's and grow as one of the founder's of M&M (AM's Grandfather) was a GM in TATA's. So I would like both these companies to grow and achieve fame globally.
	() Thanks