[apurva512]

Originally Posted by S@ndy

I'd like to correct you here. The excise duty reduction is for petrols below the 1.2 L displacement, which the 1.2 TSI is. Using 1.4 TSI isn't only going to push costs up higher but it will also lead to cannibalisation between Jetta and Vento. Jetta is already at a disadvantage due to it's Vento-esque face. So, I feel they shouldn't launch 1.4 TSI in Vento, unless it's a special edition. VW wants to differentiate amongst the two, so 1.4 TSI remains elusive to Jetta. And, if they launch 1.8 TSI in Jetta, Octy would be at a loss. Remember, VW also earn cash for every Audi and Skoda sold. Instead, if they want to push Jetta upmarket, they should give it more features and plonk 1.8 TSI in it while giving Octy the 1.4 TSI engine. Meanwhile, Audi is currently the top-dog in luxury segment while it uses less-powered engines than VW and Skoda. Man, this is sibling-rivalry at it's best!

Keep revvin'
S@ndy

Ok, I'm a little confused now. I thought the prime reason VW launched the 1.4tsi in the Jetta over the 1.8 was to avail excise benefits. I also seem to remember that the City and the Fiesta received excise benefits over the Vento due to lower engine displacement. Is this based on some older regulations that are no longer applicable? Please clarify.

Apurva

[Omtoatom]

Spoke to a professional acquaintance who manages a couple of dealerships - one of them being a VW one. Initial feelers seem to be that the Vento TSI will be comfortably north of the Rs. 12 Lacs mark on the road.

And the car is set to retain its current form - expect cosmetic changes; mostly to do with the badging just like the Polo TSI.

[Tats07]

Originally Posted by S2!!!

The refreshed Jetta on the other hand with a discontinued 1.4Tsi replaced by a 1.8Tsi could pushed much higher than the Vento (price wise) so there is no cannibalization and also would be perceived as a more upmarket offering than the Octavia which may continue to sell the 1.4Tsi along with only 1 variant of the 1.8Tsi + DSG.

Jetta 1.4 TSI has 122 PS.
Octavia 1.4 TSI (to be launched) has 140 PS.

Jetta 1.4 TSI, if continued, is likely to to be upgraded to 140 PS in the future - whenever that happens. That leaves space for Vento 1.4 TSI with 120 PS.

We are speculating too much anyway, including the above comments from my side.

In reality, it makes more business/financial sense for VW to just launch Vento 1.2 TSI by using the same engine from GT TSI. I really don't think they will launch Vento 1.4 TSI any time in the near future, if at all. I do wish that were true. Albeit with a manual transmission.

[prithwi-81]

Originally Posted by Tats07

Jetta 1.4 TSI has 122 PS.
Octavia 1.4 TSI (to be launched) has 140 PS.

Jetta 1.4 TSI, if continued, is likely to to be upgraded to 140 PS in the future - whenever that happens. That leaves space for Vento 1.4 TSI with 120 PS.

We are speculating too much anyway, including the above comments from my side.

In reality, it makes more business/financial sense for VW to just launch Vento 1.2 TSI by using the same engine from GT TSI. I really don't think they will launch Vento 1.4 TSI any time in the near future, if at all. I do wish that were true. Albeit with a manual transmission.

Sadly the current jetta will never be upgraded to the new 140hp 1.4TSI as its not a MQB platform car, unlike the new Octy which is based on the MQB.

140bhp 1.4TSI motor is compatible with MQB platform only.

[ajmat]

Originally Posted by Tats07

Jetta 1.4 TSI has 122 PS.
Octavia 1.4 TSI (to be launched) has 140 PS.

Both engines are different. The Octy's engine is specific to the MQB platform and cannot be fitted inthe previous platform.

[prithwi-81]

Originally Posted by ajmat

Both engines are different. The Octy's engine is specific to the MQB platform and cannot be fitted inthe previous platform.

Yes. Same EA111 and EA211 difference as stated earlier. The EA111 and EA211 are also found in 1.4TSI avatars.

[Tats07]

Originally Posted by prithwi-81

Sadly the current jetta will never be upgraded to the new 140hp 1.4TSI as its not a MQB platform car, unlike the new Octy which is based on the MQB.

140bhp 1.4TSI motor is compatible with MQB platform only.

Yes, that's correct. Upgrade will happen only if Jetta MQB happens. I read somewhere in 2015. But that would be a different car altogether.

[Mohan Mathew A]

Originally Posted by dr.surgeon1985

And what, price the vento alongside the jetta?? That would be ridiculous!!!! The trend for C segment sedans these days is providing a smaller, punchy, FE engine with good low end torque.

Why would that be ridiculous. Fully loaded jetta 2.0 DSG will cost upwards of 22 lakhs on road, so i would any day be willing o pay for a fully loaded vento diesel with DSG(with the 2.0 or maybe even a slightly more powerful 1.6) and things like ESP and 6 air bags if it is priced around 14

It is quite common for top variant cars of one segment below to overlap with lower variant cars of the segment above. There are numerous examples around like laura and superb, for that matter Polo and vento.
Also there is no Diesel automatic except for the verna and it makes immense sense, atleast to me. Whether VW will do it, i don't know. I hope they do.

[King_K]

Originally Posted by GTO

I'd suggest waiting. This 1.2L TSI is the global replacement of the old 1.6 N/A petrol. Only a matter of time before its phased out in all the VAG cars sold in India.

Alas, too late now! My car is already registered and is waiting for 'good days' to come so that I can take the delivery. Some consolation - it is a company owned car, so resale isn't a concern at all. Also, I get to change my car in a couple of years, so I can go for the 1.2L TSI, or who knows, even the 1.4 TSI in a Jetta!

Thanks for the advice anyway

[dr.surgeon1985]

Originally Posted by Mohan Mathew A

Why would that be ridiculous. Fully loaded jetta 2.0 DSG will cost upwards of 22 lakhs on road, so i would any day be willing o pay for a fully loaded vento diesel with DSG(with the 2.0 or maybe even a slightly more powerful 1.6) and things like ESP and 6 air bags if it is priced around 14

It is quite common for top variant cars of one segment below to overlap with lower variant cars of the segment above. There are numerous examples around like laura and superb, for that matter Polo and vento.
Also there is no Diesel automatic except for the verna and it makes immense sense, atleast to me. Whether VW will do it, i don't know. I hope they do.

I dont think its possible to fit a 2.0 or 1.6 litre tdi engine in a vento due to technical issues. And even if its possible, without a compromise on the power and torque it is unthinkable for VW to price a vento 2.0 dsg at 14 lacs. Its a big 8 lac gap between 2 cars using the same engine which would literally kill the jetta!!

Polo and vento using the same engine is a different issue as the price difference as such is only 2 lacs and by fitting a larger engine and bridging the price gap we dont kill the vento ( the vento offers a boot in addition)

[swiftnfurious]

Originally Posted by dr.surgeon1985

I dont think its possible to fit a 2.0 or 1.6 litre tdi engine in a vento due to technical issues...

Impossible to fit a 1.6L TDi engine in a Vento? The current version itself is a 1.6L TDi version.

Did you mean to say something else?

[karty_83]

Originally Posted by Mohan Mathew A

Why would that be ridiculous. Fully loaded jetta 2.0 DSG will cost upwards of 22 lakhs on road, so i would any day be willing to pay for a fully loaded vento diesel with DSG(with the 2.0 or maybe even a slightly more powerful 1.6) and things like ESP and 6 air bags if it is priced around 14

Well not just you, almost everyone would be willing to pay for a fully loaded Vento with 2lt DSG, 6 air bags, ESP etc. for around 14. Isn't it ?
The question is why would VW ever do that and incur losses and also kill the Jetta.

[S@ndy]

Originally Posted by apurva512

Ok, I'm a little confused now. I thought the prime reason VW launched the 1.4tsi in the Jetta over the 1.8 was to avail excise benefits. I also seem to remember that the City and the Fiesta received excise benefits over the Vento due to lower engine displacement. Is this based on some older regulations that are no longer applicable? Please clarify.

Apurva

Arey baba! No, the 1.4 TSI was launched by VW in the Jetta as a fuel-efficient, punchy petrol engine for those who prefer the refinement and smooth-ness of a petrol to diesel. Moreover, the 1.8 TSI is less fuel-efficient than 1.4 TSI. No excise benefits are given to petrol engines which have a displacement of more than 1.2 L. And, I don't think so/remember that City and Fiesta got any excise benefits, owing to their higher displacement and more than 4 metre length. I don't remember any previous regulations that were later discontinued! Others could comment better on this aspect! Hope this sheds off your doubts!

Keep revvin'
S@ndy

[Mohan Mathew A]

Originally Posted by dr.surgeon1985

I dont think its possible to fit a 2.0 or 1.6 litre tdi engine in a vento due to technical issues. And even if its possible, without a compromise on the power and torque it is unthinkable for VW to price a vento 2.0 dsg at 14 lacs. Its a big 8 lac gap between 2 cars using the same engine which would literally kill the jetta!!

Polo and vento using the same engine is a different issue as the price difference as such is only 2 lacs and by fitting a larger engine and bridging the price gap we dont kill the vento ( the vento offers a boot in addition)

I don't know if the 2.0 litre TDI will fit into the Vento, maybe it will, maybe it won't. The experts can, maybe, comment.The 1.6 litre will definitely because the Vento currently uses it.

The point i was trying to make was that if VW launches a Vento GTD (and i hope they do) then it either has to be a higher output version of the current 1.6 or some other engine. The 2.0 litre seemed the obvious choice. Along with that since there is no decent (verna doesn't qualify to be called decent IMO) Automatic Diesel if they include the DSG then it will be a killer combination. Offcourse there will be cannibalization of the Jetta. The new Octy is sure to cannibalise the superb, but they are still launching it, aren't they. If the total sales grow i think it makes sense plus they lower the entry barrier to experience a DSG diesel which is a way to get new people into the brand.

There are people who would want to buy a powerful vehicle which is loaded with technology and safety (i am one of those) and who is not that bothered about the status of a 'big' car. Right now my ilk has little choice but to stretch and go for a low or mid variant D segment car for a diesel DSG but my need is only that of a C segment. So if i get a fully loaded C segment car instead of a compromise D, i will always take the former.

Maybe VW will not launch it but i still feel sport diesel automatic C segment is a segment which is being missed out by all and VAG is best suited to cater to this segment because of Direct Shift

[prithwi-81]

The current gen 2.0TDI and the 1.8 and 2.0TSI fit into the Polo/Vento platform. The Polo R WRC has the 2.0TSI engine from the Golf GTI/Skoda VRS fame and it fits like a charm, and where the 2.0TSI fits, so will the 1.8TSI and the 2.0TDI.