[VeyronSuperSprt]

Originally Posted by rohit_dce

Did this have the DRLs found on the Swift facelift launched (I think in Europe) earlier this year?

No. The only external difference was the keyless entry sensor on the door.

[KrishD]

Originally Posted by kailashnj

what a scoop. If this is correct then what happens to all those who have bought the Suzuki DDIS engines, support stops after 5 years or so.

I think Maruti is known to support engines which get phased out. Even the older carburetter fitted Zens and Esteems still get the required service and spare parts.

Additionally I dont think DDIS will immediately be removed from all cars. Also they will continue in Multijet, Quadrajet form on Fiats and Tatas

[Krishna_Pondy]

I have a feeling the scoop pic is that of the European swift, as evidence from the attached pic from Suzuki UK website.

Also if Maruti is testing their own diesel engine, I dont think they will want to drop the DDiS badge so soon. Same goes for the exterior design which is the same as current Swift and hence is not camouflaged.

[gitartha]

Something is not quite right in the pics. If this is indeed the new swift, with cruise control, keyless entry and push button start, it will certainly be the top end ZDi variant. However, if we take a look at the ORVM, the blinkers are missing !! Now turn signal blinkers are standard equipment even in the mid range VDi version in current swift. I doubt if it will go missing in a top end version, more so on an updated model.

Even though it is now a tweaked 8 year old technology,the current MJD in the swift in miles ahead of "contemporary" engines like the earth dreams i-Dtec in terms of refinement & fun-to-driveability. It actually makes sense to continue with this engine. ( At least the loyalty money will keep FIAT alive in India ). I sometimes shudder to think what will happen if honda plonks the current i-dtec in the new city & civic. It will be pure hara kiri for the japs as the very essence of these Honda models which is sophistication & near silent refinement will go for a big toss.

[a4anurag]

Originally Posted by gitartha

Now turn signal blinkers are standard equipment even in the mid range VDi version in current swift. I doubt if it will go missing in a top end version, more so on an updated model.

It is under testing and not a final production model which is ready for release to the market so there is no need to panic for such a feature. Let's wait for more information on the update version of the Swift.

Originally Posted by gitartha

I sometimes shudder to think what will happen if honda plonks the current i-dtec in the new city & civic. It will be pure hara kiri for the japs as the very essence of these Honda models which is sophistication & near silent refinement will go for a big toss.

Nothing will happen. The Amaze equipped i-DTEC is not a bad engine at all. I love it and just waiting for Honda to plonk this engine in Brio, Jazz and City. The Indian market just needs a Diesel engine to survive decently.

Regarding the refinement and sophistication it will not go anywhere with the Honda. They know their engines and work. I also would say this engine being their first for India give them some time for and improvement and I bet they will be as equal as the 1.3 MJD and DDiS.

Anurag.

[julupani]

Originally Posted by gitartha

Even though it is now a tweaked 8 year old technology,the current MJD in the swift in miles ahead of "contemporary" engines like the earth dreams i-Dtec in terms of refinement & fun-to-driveability. It actually makes sense to continue with this engine. ( At least the loyalty money will keep FIAT alive in India ). I sometimes shudder to think what will happen if honda plonks the current i-dtec in the new city & civic. It will be pure hara kiri for the japs as the very essence of these Honda models which is sophistication & near silent refinement will go for a big toss.

True the FIAT MultiJet engine is still arguably one of the best diesel engines in the market, but MSIL has to think about the future.

Earlier when FIAT was not in the best of financial health, it may have been willing to share its engine tech, but it is not likely to do so in the future.

FIAT has already launched its MultiJet II engines in Europe, which has made its MultiJet engines slightly better. FIAT is also supposedly working on bringing a version of its MultiAir technology into its diesel engines.

Honda too has started on their journey towards modern diesel engines. Obviously their first attempt is not as great as FIAT, a company which is the father of modern ECU-controlled common rail diesel engines. But as a first step its a great effort by Honda. But Suzuki havnt yet taken that first step, despite diesel powered cars being an important in 2 of their 3 major markets, ie Europe and India.

In fact Suzuki seems to be lagging behind even on petrol engine tech of the future. Their present VTVT engines are pretty good, but what about the next gen of engines. VW have got their TSi engines, FIAT has got its MultiAir and Ford have got their ECOBoost for the future. Even Hyundai has started off with some large size GDI engines.

[mohandas]

Originally Posted by julupani

True the FIAT MultiJet engine is still arguably one of the best diesel engines in the market, but MSIL has to think about the future.

What is the definition of "best" in your book? Frugal, drive-ability, reliability, size of power-band - none of these says that FIAT MJ is the best (at most good in some areas). You need to drive the available SDEs to appreciate the best-ness.

[a4anurag]

Originally Posted by mohandas

What is the definition of "best" in your book? Frugal, drive-ability, reliability, size of power-band - none of these says that FIAT MJ is the best (at most good in some areas).

Sales figures for the Fiat 1.3 MJD speak more than required for the beauty of the engine.

It is a gem of an engine overall. Be it power delivery, driveability of fuel efficiency in its segment. I drove the 1.3 MJD and I have done 102022 kms in 2.9 years and still going strong. No investment in the engine. I get a average mileage of 18-23 kmpl. No complaints on any part.

Anurag.

[chncar]

Originally Posted by gitartha

Even though it is now a tweaked 8 year old technology,the current MJD in the swift in miles ahead of "contemporary" engines like the earth dreams i-Dtec in terms of refinement & fun-to-driveability. It actually makes sense to continue with this engine. ( At least the loyalty money will keep FIAT alive in India ). I sometimes shudder to think what will happen if honda plonks the current i-dtec in the new city & civic. It will be pure hara kiri for the japs as the very essence of these Honda models which is sophistication & near silent refinement will go for a big toss.

As an MJD user myself, the engine is reasonably refined and offers decent driveability when not in stop and go traffic, but it is hardly the benchmark on either of those parameters.

Nothing much wrong with the Honda diesels, its just that the barebones Brio platform due to cost cutting does not filter out the NVH. City/Civic is a completely different story altogether. The European Civic with the previous generation 1.6 diesel had rave reviews.

Originally Posted by a4anurag

Sales figures for the Fiat 1.3 MJD speak more than required for the beauty of the engine.

It is a gem of an engine overall. Be it power delivery, driveability of fuel efficiency in its segment.

Anurag.

Agree that it is an excellent engine, however the sales figures are skewed because of Maruti's marketshare and the lack of availability of other engines in the Indian market.

[srishiva]

I agree. The refinement of an engine depends to some extent on the car on which its installed.

[amalji]

Originally Posted by gitartha

Even though it is now a tweaked 8 year old technology,the current MJD in the swift in miles ahead of "contemporary" engines like the earth dreams i-Dtec in terms of refinement & fun-to-driveability.

With refinement, yes. But in terms of fun to drive and driveability, I'm not too sure. Forget just Honda. Almost all engines ( Renault, Toyota, Ford ) available in the market offers better drivability than the multijet. Regarding the fun to drive factor, the i-Dtec is the fastest of the lot.

Originally Posted by gitartha

I sometimes shudder to think what will happen if honda plonks the current i-dtec in the new city & civic. It will be pure hara kiri for the japs as the very essence of these Honda models which is sophistication & near silent refinement will go for a big toss.

Toyota's 1.4 D-4D on the Etios didn't have good NVH control before 2013. But, on the 2013 facelift, there is a marked improvement.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Pa1-vV4-x_I

NVH can easily be manipulated by the damping techniques used. If you need a better example of the same, check out Corolla Diesel. It uses the same engine as that of the Etios Diesel ( but with a VGT instead of FGT ). It's super refined. Knowing Honda, I'm sure they are intelligent enough to take care of the NVH factor on the Diesel variants of Jazz and City. Amaze is an entry level sedan and there is a limit to which they can spend on NVH control. Not so with the other models.

[mohandas]

Originally Posted by a4anurag

Sales figures for the Fiat 1.3 MJD speak more than required for the beauty of the engine.

I am truly appalled at the logic here. So, by this logic, Alto petrol is the best available petrol engine in india because it sells more.

Originally Posted by a4anurag

I have done 102022 kms in 2.9 years and still going strong. No investment in the engine. I get a average mileage of 18-23 kmpl. No complaints on any part.
Anurag.

I am not sure how much statistically significant this number is?

[gitartha]

Originally Posted by mohandas

I am truly appalled at the logic here. So, by this logic, Alto petrol is the best available petrol engine in india because it sells more.

I am even more appaled at the logic not being understood. In case of Alto, there is no other alternative of that engine type (petrol 800cc) at that price point. YEs, the engine of Eon is there but at a higher price as well as higher NVH. Hence the numbers.

However in case of the multijet Swift, at the same pricepoint (leaving aside the punto & vista), there are lots of competing options for the FGT versions (Polo - Figo - Pulse - Micra - Liva - Amaze). Even when the customer is spoilt for choice, the performance, refinement, reliability as well as low maintenance (maruti specific) of the MJD engine ensures that its sales has now become stuff of legends. Even fiat can't help mentioning is its car ads -" The highest selling cars of India run on Fiat engines" - not knowing it is as good as Tata motors saying - the highest selling cars in india are made from TATA steel !!

Originally Posted by mohandas

I am not sure how much statistically significant this number is?

This is significant actually.Being an MJD engine owner myself ,finding a guy driving 3000 kms per day- still getting 23kmpl after driving the car for 1 lac plus kms - it definately adds to my already high confidence in my car's engine.

Originally Posted by amalji

With refinement, yes. But in terms of fun to drive and driveability, I'm not too sure. Regarding the fun to drive factor, the i-Dtec is the fastest of the lot.

I am not too sure of this here. I took a test drive of the amaze with all the figures in my mind (1500 cc, 100 ps, 200 nm, HONDA !!) half expecting it to be a mini rocket. However even with the lighter kerb weight than my dzire (2012) , the performance was nothing to write home about. The engine was simply struggling to pick up revs and at the same time grunting like a Sonalika tractor with an upset stomach. It may have good driveability, but so did the old HM Ambassadors NOVAs with ISUZU engines. Frankly I did not time the 0-100kmph run or tested the top whack of the Amaze. However the moment I stepped back in my dzire, turned on the engine & drove away, it felt like heaven. (obviously the amaze interiors further scarred the impression of the car in my mind as compared to my prime pacific blue colored beauty)

[chncar]

Originally Posted by gitartha

I am even more appaled at the logic not being understood. In case of Alto, there is no other alternative of that engine type (petrol 800cc) at that price point. YEs, the engine of Eon is there but at a higher price as well as higher NVH. Hence the numbers.

However in case of the multijet Swift, at the same pricepoint (leaving aside the punto & vista), there are lots of competing options for the FGT versions (Polo - Figo - Pulse - Micra - Liva - Amaze). Even when the customer is spoilt for choice, the performance, refinement, reliability as well as low maintenance (maruti specific) of the MJD engine ensures that its sales has now become stuff of legends. Even fiat can't help mentioning is its car ads -" The highest selling cars of India run on Fiat engines" - not knowing it is as good as Tata motors saying - the highest selling cars in india are made from TATA steel !!

The sales of the engine is not due to the engine itself (which is pretty good as everyone has acknowledged) but due to it being in a Maruti. If the Micra/Figo/Liva had been in a Maruti car their sales would have been massive as well. If the engine alone could propel sales, Tata and GM cars using it would not sell in such small numbers. I drive an MJD car myself and I like the engine, but I am realistic about its limitations.

Also, the customer in India is not really spoilt for choice, the availability of competing diesel engines in India is very limited. Several manufacturers that have better engines like Toyota, VW, Ford, etc haven't brought their top of the line engines to the market (at least not in that segment) and some that make brilliant small diesels like Peugeot are missing from the market altogether.

[julupani]

Originally Posted by chncar

The sales of the engine is not due to the engine itself (which is pretty good as everyone has acknowledged) but due to it being in a Maruti. If the Micra/Figo/Liva had been in a Maruti car their sales would have been massive as well. If the engine alone could propel sales, Tata and GM cars using it would not sell in such small numbers. I drive an MJD car myself and I like the engine, but I am realistic about its limitations.

Definitely, a lot of factors went into the success of the Swift and the Dzire becoming such huge successes. But do you think the engine had nothing to do with it??? In my view the engine was a major contributor, more that 50% if you ask me.

It not only made the Swift a success, but was also directly responsible for the huge rise in popularity of diesel powered cars in India. It also contributed to a certain extent to making small diesel engines popular outside India as well.

As for how good the engine is, let me just share a small little fact. The FIAT 1.3MultiJet is one of the few diesel engines ever to win an International Engine of the Year award. Only a few other BMW and VW diesel engines have managed that. And keep in mind that there is no separate category for diesel engines, ie petrol and diesel engines have to compete against each other.