[suhaas307]

Originally Posted by mohandas

Well, I do not want to be judgmental here, but I have failed to understand how much this is statistically significant, when the sample size is just your scorp. May be you are using a scorp for the last 30 years, but how this can be a generalized fact? Your scorp can be a lemon. Right?
Also one more question (though I am not expecting an answer):
According to GTO's monthly sales thread ( over the last 6 months data), it shows that Scorp are still selling in decent numbers. Do you think all those guys who are purchasing are ignorant? Can't be all of them..right...

Here's an interesting fact: The cheapest SUV on sale in the UK and various other markets is the Duster. But here in India, the Scorpio takes that place. I will not consider the Bolero as it's more of a UV.

The Indian market is such that there is high demand for cheap to buy / own / run SUVs and the Scorpio fits the bill perfectly. That's probably why it clocks healthy numbers quite consistently.

I request all those who are participating in this discussion to stick to the topic.

[torquecurve]

The way forward

- keep the quanto as a part of the line up. Target it to the Mumbai taxi market
- do away with it and launch a new carsuv ASAP.
- put 16 inch tyres on the vibe and position it as the mini SUV ( if ford can mm can too)
- talk to Rohit Shetty about using this in the next Singham, golmaal or Punjab Mail.

[shankar.balan]

Originally Posted by mohandas

Well, I do not want to be judgmental here, but I have failed to understand how much this is statistically significant, when the sample size is just your scorp. May be you are using a scorp for the last 30 years, but how this can be a generalized fact? Your scorp can be a lemon. Right? Also one more question (though I am not expecting an answer): According to GTO's monthly sales thread ( over the last 6 months data), it shows that Scorp are still selling in decent numbers. Do you think all those guys who are purchasing are ignorant? Can't be all of them..right...

Mr Mohandas:

First, I will not take offence to your tone, though I will point out that I believe it is un-necessarily aggressive and for absolutely no reason.

My rejoinder is as follows:

1. The intent in my post was not to create statistical inferences based on my (one person sample size) feedback.

2. The Scorpio and Bolero may sell in huge numbers, but this proves absolutely nothing about their ride and handling.

3. The plain fact is (and you know it as well as I), that Indian consumers like things that are cheap to buy, reliable and tough in conditions of daily abuse and are generally cheap to run and maintain.

4. Ride quality, space, comfort, handling, ergonomics, safety etc are all desirables (particularly for the urban set), but will still heartily be compromised on, provided their first set of priorities as above, are met.

5. This does not mean the consumers are ignorant as you appear to have implied in your post, it merely means that their priorities are different and arguably, they are not as discerning.

6. You also know as well as I do that the Scorpio per se has been around for the last 13 years only so your statement about my using a Scorp for 30 years may, out of generosity,(especially considering your tone),be excused as a typo.

7.I liked my Scorpio very much indeed when I had it. It was most certainly NOT a lemon and gave me excellent service for the 4 years that I used it.

8.The same goes for my Bolero when I had that. I used that for 3+ years.

9. Along with some of my family members, I have been an M&M loyalist for ages, with good links inside M&M.

10. This is also why, for your information, I was amongst those 'privileged few', who were invited to a sneak preview of the XUV well before it was launched to the public.

11. The Quanto simply does not sell much nowadays because the market has become more mature and the consumer expectations are vastly different from any new vehicle. This may be construed as early signs that the market is indeed maturing slowly.

Having said all of this, I still stand by the fact that most of these M&M vehicles, Bolero, Scorpio, Xylo, Quanto, XUV etc are bad handlers, in terms of the pronounced swaying motion and their suspension set up. In general, the M&M vehicles are downright uncomfortable in comparison to the Innova, Safari and of course, the advanced international SUV's/ MUV's.

This is the plain simple truth, irrespective of whether or not it is palatable to you and/ or others.

[siddhu_75]

My dad has a Quanto and I drove it recently for about 100kms from Sultanpur to Allahabad in UP, three-fourth of the distance on well paved roads, rest on potholes.

This was the top end model with Airbags along with some bells and whistles.

Positives:
1. 6 Adults (none too tall, none too fat) and 4 kids from 2 to 8 survived in the car for 3 hrs
2. Foldable ORVMs, parking sensors etc. in a sub 10L, car which can carry a large family

Negatives:
1. Performance - not sure anyone looking for an SUV with a zip is going to buy Quanto so not sure if it even matters
2. While the gear shift isn't Bolero like, it isn't slick
3. Narrow bench for middle row

I'm not sure if M&M should discard the third row in this vehicle - only ones who will prefer this over EcoSport or not spend extra couple of lacs for a Duster are those who want the third row seat but cant cross the 10L mark.

[zenren]

Originally Posted by shankar.balan

In general, the M&M vehicles are downright uncomfortable in comparison to the Innova, Safari and of course, the advanced international SUV's/ MUV's.

Fully agree. M&M still sells in huge numbers mainly due to their off-roading capabilities and the ease of maintenance when subject to unforgiving terrains on a daily basis. What use is a comfortable car if it cannot be used and would end up taking space in your garage. Innova gets very expensive to maintain while Tata loses out on reliability after heavy use in such conditions.

Most of us are used to the well paved urban roads for most part of our driving routine where we talk about handling and comfort. M&M's strength is still the rural market with almost non-existent roads where 3rd gear driving is sometimes a luxury. High speed dynamics and comfort is the least of their priorities.

This is another reason why M&M didn't do too well with Quanto. Most loyal M&M followers don't have parking space constraints in their garages and find no need to buy a cramped sub 4m vehicle when they can either buy a cheaper full sized Bolero or a bigger Xylo/Scorpio.

[rajeshsundaram]

When I checked out the Quanto last year in CAI Showroom at Erode, I felt something is missing. For a potential buyer, it lacks something which I could not identify yet. The pricing is okay, the features are okay but still it doesnt strike the right bell in the buyers mind.

One of the reasons could be.. it is based on the low-selling Xylo. As Xylo is a low-volume seller, people associate Quanto with a "poor vehicle / low selling vehicle / should I buy this?" image and try to see if there are any better alternatives. And that's where the Quanto loses. IMO, Quanto shouldnt have been developed using Xylo platform.

Reducing the height of Quanto is a costly exercise. M&M will not go for it as it would require sheet metal changes on all doors and side panels. Modifying the doors require new set of dyes. It is better to invest that expense in the upcoming platforms and offer a better product. Versa turned into Eeco, because the Versa's roof was a raised model. So Maruti was able to reduce the height without changing the door panels for a mere 60 crore.

IMO, the way forward for Quanto is to attempt a Last-Mile connectivity UV like this. Strip out all luxury features, plonk the Bolero engine, remove doors and give the bare minimum around 5 lakhs.





This will fit a nice option for Delivery companies, Servicing units, In-city cargo handling etc. But Anand Mahindra and Pawan Goenka will not do that because it will kill the Xylo, compete with Ingenio, Maxximo and become a subject of shooting their own feet.

[vipinendran]

Originally Posted by Sheel

I am sorry, but what is to laugh about it?

BTW, the link posted is in Gujrati which I had a hard time translating in English, no where states that Mr. Narendra Modi speaks anything about Scorpio (benefits or otherwise). Nor is there a word on Scorpio by his staff.

Hence I questioned as to where did you read him swearing by Scorpio & its benefits. Please do mention.

Thanks

Firstly there are two links posted by me, one in Hindi and one in gujarati, please read the hindi version or you could use google chrome as Mohandas mentioned in one of his posts. I had a laugh, only because I don't think you expect Mr.Modi to come out with an official press release praising the scorpio , It is a well known fact that he loves the vehicle and has been using it inspite of the fact that he is entitled to use bigger and more expensive cars ! His liking "pasand" in Hindi was also conveyed to me by a close friend of mine who does a lot of work in the educational sphere in Gujarat !

[zenren]

Originally Posted by rajeshsundaram

IMO, the way forward for Quanto is to attempt a Last-Mile connectivity UV like this. Strip out all luxury features, plonk the Bolero engine, remove doors and give the bare minimum around 5 lakhs.


Attachment 1162615


This will fit a nice option for Delivery companies, Servicing units, In-city cargo handling etc. But Anand Mahindra and Pawan Goenka will not do that because it will kill the Xylo, compete with Ingenio, Maxximo and become a subject of shooting their own feet.

When it comes to commercial vehicles, I don't think the sub-4m dimensions has any price advantage. Why should anyone buy this instead of a Bolero Pick-up which would be cheaper and more spacious?

[vipinendran]

Originally Posted by shankar.balan

Mr Mohandas:
Having said all of this, I still stand by the fact that most of these M&M vehicles, Bolero, Scorpio, Xylo, Quanto, XUV etc are bad handlers, in terms of the pronounced swaying motion and their suspension set up. In general, the M&M vehicles are downright uncomfortable in comparison to the Innova, Safari and of course, the advanced international SUV's/ MUV's.

This is the plain simple truth, irrespective of whether or not it is palatable to you and/ or others.

My dear friend I fail to understand that how could a BHPian at 61 can have a great trip to ladakh by travelling in a "as you say" "bad handling, downright uncomfortable vehicle" , Refer :http://www.team-bhp.com/forum/travel...my-xuv500.html or sathya's post http://www.team-bhp.com/forum/travel...so-moriri.html Having travelled ( as a driver and as a passenger ) both in the Innova, the Xylo and the quanto in the length and breath of the southern part of India, to Kodaikanal, Munnar, Ooty, coorg, Rameshwaram etc., Neither my friends or family and I find any appreciable difference in the suspension set up or swaying motion of these vehicles. Of course if you are comparing it with a sedan then Yes, I agree there is the difference.

[rajeshsundaram]

Originally Posted by zenren

When it comes to commercial vehicles, I don't think the sub-4m dimensions doesn't have any price advantage. Why should anyone buy this instead of a Bolero Pick-up which would be cheaper and more spacious?

Of course there is no sub 4M concession. But I did not say that Quanto SHOULD go this way. I see that the only sensible OPTION LEFT for Quanto is the UV way, but it becomes a redundant choice as M&M has the Ingenio Maxximo etc. Please read the last line of my post.

[shankar.balan]

Originally Posted by vipinendran

My dear friend I fail to understand that how could a BHPian at 61 can have a great trip to ladakh by travelling in a "as you say" "bad handling, downright uncomfortable vehicle" , Refer :http://www.team-bhp.com/forum/travel...my-xuv500.html or sathya's post http://www.team-bhp.com/forum/travel...so-moriri.html Having travelled ( as a driver and as a passenger ) both in the Innova, the Xylo and the quanto in the length and breath of the southern part of India, to Kodaikanal, Munnar, Ooty, coorg, Rameshwaram etc., Neither my friends or family and I find any appreciable difference in the suspension set up or swaying motion of these vehicles. Of course if you are comparing it with a sedan then Yes, I agree there is the difference.

This thread is fast deteriorating into a slanging match of opinions and heated posts! I would urge you, to curb your tone!

Well, here's my further rejoinder, at the risk of going off topic.

I am very sorry but in my opinion there is a distinct difference in comfort for driver and passengers when comparing between the Innova and the Scorpio, Xylo and others.

We all know how capable the m&m vehicles being discussed are. There was never any question about that; but the poor handling and swaying motion are facts that no one, however biased, can ignore!

It is very clear that the Innova wins in the comfort and handling aspects over the other two mentioned.

I know better than to compare the handling of a low slung sedan to a tall, heavy set SUV / MUV because the two types of vehicles are inherently different!

[zenren]

Originally Posted by rajeshsundaram

Of course there is no sub 4M concession. But I did not say that Quanto SHOULD go this way. I see that the only sensible OPTION LEFT for Quanto is the UV way, but it becomes a redundant choice as M&M has the Ingenio Maxximo etc. Please read the last line of my post.

Redundant choice is one thing, where all are viable options for a customer. Maruti did it with Wagon R/Estilo/AStar and Mahindra could do it by putting a Quanto based UV to their line up. They are not going to lose anything if they sell one Mahindra instead of another, especially if they have similar profit margins per vehicle.

Just to understand your context better, can you please give an example where a customer would choose the half size Quanto UV instead of a full size UV from M&M line up considering there is no price advantage for Quanto UV?

[rajeshsundaram]

Originally Posted by zenren

Just to understand your context better, can you please give an example where a customer would choose the half size Quanto UV instead of a full size UV from M&M line up considering there is no price advantage for Quanto UV?

There are very few Uni-body cargo movers around. Omni, Eeco and Traveller. Omni & Eeco are Petrol based, and Traveller is too big. And Mahindra Pikup / Ingenio doesnt offer a uni-body cargo-mover model. Most cargo movers have a separate drive cabin and open cargo bay. Customers has go into pain of building a "box" in the cargo bay .

So Urban customers from the following segments -

- Shipping & delivery business,
- Caterers,
- ATM money handlers,
- Small businesses,
- Department stores etc

may look into a mid-size uni-body model cargo mover.

Price advantage could be achieved by removing doors, which could save a good 50k. By removing middle row and last 2 seats, another 40k, plonk a detuned engine - another 30-40k, use a standard suspension - another 20k. Bare black bumpers - 10k, basic interior plastic cladding - another 20k etc. I see there is a clear price advantage.

PS : Uni-body may not be the right term I guess. But hope it explains my idea.

[ambivalent_98]

Originally Posted by shankar.balan

Around a year ago a taxi driver I was using in Bombay told me the following, during a conversation about Innova, Scorpio, Xylo, XUV etc.

I was using his services in an Innova at the time.

He said that the Innova's suspension and springing works very well and is very comfortable because the movement that one experiences as a passenger is 'up and down' and never from 'side-to-side'.

The Mahindra vehicles however, all have a nasty habit of rocking and swaying you from side to side, as a passenger. This leads to motion sickness, extreme discomfort on long journeys on bad roads or hill roads, constant, nagging neck and back aches and a general sense of ill-being.

I had the opportunity to get under the skin of a really modern SUV on a trip to England in 2011, a Subaru Forester. After having experienced the comfort and pleasure of a monocoque chassis, first class suspension and all the other bells and whistles, I was actually finding it extremely difficult to contemplate getting back into my Scorpio and driving it up and down on a daily basis, once I returned to India.

My Doctor actually advised me in 2011 to get rid of my Scorpio, because of constant, nagging, neck ache, back ache and apparently was even tending towards possible Spondylitis. He said the rocking motion of my Scorpio on the lousy Bangalore roads was actually aggravating my condition!

However, having no other go and no other vehicle, I was forced to 'grin and bear it' until I made a decision on what car to upgrade to and had made the financial plan for the same! By the time I got rid of it in December and took delivery of my brand new Yeti, I was suffering from an extreme case of user fatigue and user disgust, with that Scorpio I can tell you. It was really such a sheer relief to see the back of that vehicle on account of the various aches and pains that I had come to associate with it!

I sold my Scorpio to a friend and now, two years down the line, he is constantly cribbing about the rocking, swaying motion that he has to undergo every day when he takes that vehicle into his rutted Estate roads. He plans to dump it quite soon.

This is a really interesting point of view. I was not aware of this at all. Thanks for sharing Shankar. I will check if such a thing happens on my friend's Scorpio. Anyway it is also noticeable in the XUV ? Or have they corrected it there ?

[shankar.balan]

Originally Posted by ambivalent_98

This is a really interesting point of view. I was not aware of this at all. Thanks for sharing Shankar. I will check if such a thing happens on my friend's Scorpio. Anyway it is also noticeable in the XUV ? Or have they corrected it there ?

One thing is for sure. The Mahindra guys keep improving their vehicles, version after version after version.

Yes, the XUV being of a monocoque construction is a better handler than the Scorpio which is built on a ladder chassis.

Yet, on account of its proportions and overall aerodynamics it does tend to sway at higher speeds and most definitely on rutted roads, around corners and hair pin bends.