[zenren]

Originally Posted by rajeshsundaram

There are very few Uni-body cargo movers around. Omni, Eeco and Traveller. Omni & Eeco are Petrol based, and Traveller is too big. And Mahindra Pikup / Ingenio doesnt offer a uni-body cargo-mover model. Most cargo movers have a separate drive cabin and open cargo bay. Customers has go into pain of building a "box" in the cargo bay .

So Urban customers from the following segments -

- Shipping & delivery business,
- Caterers,
- ATM money handlers,
- Small businesses,
- Department stores etc

may look into a mid-size uni-body model cargo mover.

Price advantage could be achieved by removing doors, which could save a good 50k. By removing middle row and last 2 seats, another 40k, plonk a detuned engine - another 30-40k, use a standard suspension - another 20k. Bare black bumpers - 10k, basic interior plastic cladding - another 20k etc. I see there is a clear price advantage.

PS : Uni-body may not be the right term I guess. But hope it explains my idea.

Got your point but my basic question remains unanswered. Why should M&M do this exercise on Quanto instead of doing the same on Bolero? What is the USP of Quanto?

When you put a new engine into Quanto, you have to go through testing and approvals process again which doesn't come cheap. On the other hand, additional investment on Bolero would be way small considering they already have everything ready except a "uni-body" in the form of Bolero Pik-up. Plonk in the body of Bolero Ambulance and I guess you have your "uni-body" cargo vehicle ready. Testing required would also be minimal since its just cosmetic bodywork changes.

I have seen a lot of Bolero Pik-ups with covered bodywork at the rear for some of the purposes you mentioned. In most of those cases, customers would need to do small levels of customization to rear box anyway like some sort of an interior designing for their needs.

Quanto cannot compete with Omni and Eeco since it lacks the key strength of those cars - ability to go through very narrow roads and reach places where its difficult for bigger vehicles. Width of a Quanto is not as small as its length suggests and hence its not going to be as friendly as an Omni on a narrow road.

For someone who needs something bigger, I'm not sure if Quanto can offer much more space than Omni/Eeco since you get only 1.5 rows space for Quanto while there is no bonnet area for Omni and you get two full rows of space in the cargo compartment. Bigger width might make the volume roughly the same but that doesn't give Quanto an edge over Omni at double the price of Omni. Bolero's dimensions are the minimum someone needs if they want something bigger than Eeco.

[CARDEEP]

Originally Posted by vipinendran

Firstly there are two links posted by me, one in Hindi and one in gujarati, please read the hindi version or you could use google chrome as Mohandas mentioned in one of his posts. I had a laugh, only because I don't think you expect Mr.Modi to come out with an official press release praising the scorpio , It is a well known fact that he loves the vehicle and has been using it inspite of the fact that he is entitled to use bigger and more expensive cars ! His liking "pasand" in Hindi was also conveyed to me by a close friend of mine who does a lot of work in the educational sphere in Gujarat !

Hi @vipinendran

I do not think NaMo or any other politician using a particular vehicle would make it or the brand best or flawless for people to buy these vehicles.

I hope you would agree, otherwise one would rush to buy Safari, because the leader or ruling party & her family travels in one such SUV. FYI, in last election, Rahul Gandhi was driven around in few constituencies in a Sumo by none other than Robert Vadra. Yet the sales of these have not increased to the levels (read numbers) like what M&M sells the Scorpio alone.

Similarly, most politicians prefer Ambys, but is it the best in terms of safety, efficiency, service reach & few other parameters. Answer to this is NO.

At times, these vehicles are bought since it is cheap to bulletproof them (NaMo & Gandhis' case), & in most of occasions it is to mark the arrival in public (other officials & politicians).

Similar is the case with the vehicle which is the subject of this thread - Quanto, which basically suffers from the same flaw (s) like the Xylo, poor handling & ride, which IMO is majorly caused by the height of the vehicle, more so in Quanto's case, which has got the overall shorter footprint * ladder frame chassis. I do not have the doubt about the robustness of the vehicle, but, it is the ride is iffy.

As many have pointed out, if the height of the vehicle is reduced like the modern urban SUVs, alongwith adding anti-roll bars & other mods to make it stable, probably that could help its case IMO.

[vipinendran]

Originally Posted by CARDEEP

Hi @vipinendran

I do not think NaMo or any other politician using a particular vehicle would make it or the brand best or flawless for people to buy these vehicles.

Nowhere in my post I have mentioned that, I made that statement in the context of the body roll which people feel when they trave in an suv. Mr.Modi's example came up to illustrate the fact that some people "feel" more body roll or the swaying of an suv more than others, irrespective of their age. I am sure no one would use a vehicle in which they feel "sick" after travelling! That is why even in this thread, you would see how a few quanto owners do not feel the body roll factor as a big minus, IMO there is no perfect vehicle, People make their decisions based on a lot of factors before purchasing a vehicle. IMO In the case of Quanto Mahindra needs to launch a campaign to remove the myths ( mentioned by simple car in his post) surrounding the quanto to improve the sales, most times a product is positioned in the mind of people and perception plays a vital role.

Originally Posted by shankar.balan

This thread is fast deteriorating into a slanging match of opinions and heated posts! I would urge you, to curb your tone!

Dear Sir Yes please do not turn it into a slanging match, nowhere have I raised my tone Coming back to the topic, and to your posts, we may all like or dislike a vehicle because of its pluses and minuses, but we should never go overboard in describing a vehicle, There are quite a few Quanto owners in this forum and it was unwarrented to describe that they have all got ugly ducklings and not a swan! The photograph posted by you may be a BHPian's car. They must have had their reasons to purchase it. We should respect their choices. So Let us be objective, and well beauty is subjective! Maruti's Dezire is a classic case study

Mod Note: Please use the EDIT or MULTI-QUOTE buttons instead of typing one post after another on the SAME THREAD!

To know how to multi-quote, click here.

[rajeshsundaram]

Originally Posted by zenren

Got your point but my basic question remains unanswered. Why should M&M do this exercise on Quanto instead of doing the same on Bolero? What is the USP of Quanto?
..
..
..
For someone who needs something bigger, I'm not sure if Quanto can offer much more space than Omni/Eeco since you get only 1.5 rows space for Quanto while there is no bonnet area for Omni and you get two full rows of space in the cargo compartment. Bigger width might make the volume roughly the same but that doesn't give Quanto an edge over Omni at double the price of Omni. Bolero's dimensions are the minimum someone needs if they want something bigger than Eeco.

I agree there is no out-of-the-world USP here. My suggestion is more in terms of extracting the most out of the platform. Doing that exercise in Bolero or a Xylo would give a good result. Basically I feel we are discussing two slightly different things of a product. I am talking about the choice(s) available, and you are talking about the value proposition of the choices.

Summing up our thoughts together, shall I say "Quanto has a choice to get into the UV/ Cargo category, but that may not prove profitable / nor impressive as there are some limitations attached to it and also not that worthy"?

[CARDEEP]

Originally Posted by vipinendran

Nowhere in my post I have mentioned that, I made that statement in the context of the body roll which people feel when they trave in an suv. Mr.Modi's example came up to illustrate the fact that some people "feel" more body roll or the swaying of an suv more than others, irrespective of their age. I am sure no one would use a vehicle in which they feel "sick" after travelling! That is why even in this thread, you would see how a few quanto owners do not feel the body roll factor as a big minus, IMO there is no perfect vehicle, People make their decisions based on a lot of factors before purchasing a vehicle. IMO In the case of Quanto Mahindra needs to launch a campaign to remove the myths ( mentioned by simple car in his post) surrounding the quanto to improve the sales, most times a product is positioned in the mind of people and perception plays a vital role.

Hi @vipinendran

with your comments that Body Roll is the problem here. Few people may not see a problem here, it's not a problem for me or most males in my family, but my mother & brother's wife would start feeling seasick very soon, this is very reason I will avoid this. Even if there is a single person in your family who feels like throwing up after in a particular vehicle the whole family will avoid that vehicle next time on & dissuade acquaintances to ride in.

This is what is bogging the sales number down IMO.

[shankar.balan]

Originally Posted by vipinendran

Dear Sir Yes please do not turn it into a slanging match, nowhere have I raised my tone Coming back to the topic, and to your posts, we may all like or dislike a vehicle because of its pluses and minuses, but we should never go overboard in describing a vehicle, There are quite a few Quanto owners in this forum and it was unwarrented to describe that they have all got ugly ducklings and not a swan! The photograph posted by you may be a BHPian's car. They must have had their reasons to purchase it. We should respect their choices. So Let us be objective.

Vipinendran:

I think we all understand the scenario here quite well.

Please do not take a directly accusatory tone like you have done because that is not acceptable.

I merely stated some facts having owned several m&m vehicles. There is no 'ldislike' here. After all I spent hard earned cash to buy these because I liked them!
The tone of your style of writing was certainly questionable.
I would be obliged if you did not take it upon yourself to lecture me on objectivity.

Mods: I do believe this is fast deteriorating so please delete these non useful posts in a summary manner.

[Sheel]

Originally Posted by shankar.balan

He said that the Innova's suspension and springing works very well and is very comfortable because the movement that one experiences as a passenger is 'up and down' and never from 'side-to-side'.

The Mahindra vehicles however, all have a nasty habit of rocking and swaying you from side to side, as a passenger. This leads to motion sickness, extreme discomfort on long journeys on bad roads or hill roads, constant, nagging neck and back aches and a general sense of ill-being.

That is what we (during the Scorpio's purchase) were talking about. And this is an inherent Mahindra issue.

Drivers are isolated from it to some extent, but not the passengers.

I am surprised that those who are not perturbed by this horizontal move have gone to denial mode. How can one not feel the swaying movement & not get irritated, especially after sampling other UV's?

Originally Posted by mohandas

Try google chrome - it (translation) works. It indeed talks about NaMo's scorp.

I have read, but nowhere does it say that Mr. Modi endorses it as claimed by vipinendran.

See what he says

Originally Posted by vipinendran

India's PM candidate (someone who travels a lot by road) uses the Scrop and also swears by its benefits.

Originally Posted by vipinendran

I had a laugh, only because I don't think you expect Mr.Modi to come out with an official press release praising the scorpio , It is a well known fact that he loves the vehicle and has been using it inspite of the fact that he is entitled to use bigger and more expensive cars ! His liking "pasand" in Hindi was also conveyed to me by a close friend of mine who does a lot of work in the educational sphere in Gujarat !

No, I don't expect him to come out with an Official press conference, but from the links you have posted, you haven't convinced that Mr. Modi swears by it (as claimed by you)

It is misrepresentation of facts, fact that yes, Mr. Modi drives around in a Scorpio (almost always, unfailingly) but doesn't endorse it.

If the Car would be in Mr. Modi's name, then I would have bought your POV.

------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Yes, we are discussing about Quanto, but someone claimed something which IMHO, hasn't been able to prove and I am not contesting it further.

The swaying movement is a (negative) forte of M&M UV's, but that alone is not the cause for its poor sales.

Design, price & familiarity (with Xylo, which flopped) did it for Quanto.

Thanks

[vipinendran]

Originally Posted by Sheel

It is misrepresentation of facts, fact that yes, Mr. Modi drives around in a Scorpio (almost always, unfailingly) but doesn't endorse it.

If the Car would be in Mr. Modi's name, then I would have bought your POV.

Mods: I would not want to go but a line to clarify what sheel mentions as "misrepresentation of facts". The very fact that Mr.Modi drives around in a scorpio inspite of it behaving like a boat as mentioned, and inspite of having the choice of using any another "better"vehicle like say Innova, means he likes the Scorp. Now, You can never ever expect him to officially endorse it as a "brand ambassador". No person politician or otherwise would travel for miles in a vehicle he doesn't like or makes him/her sick, whether it is his name or not. Hence it is about "drawing a logical conclusion" from the information available.

One of the most overlooked positives of the quanto is its amazing engine, very good low end torque, silent (in comparison to the Bolero) ,off in a flash from signal stops, quick overtaking on the highways and a mileage of around 18kmpl in the city. These are some of the pros which Mahindra should highlight to improve its sales numbers ! I feel Mahindra has failed to communicate some of these positives to its target buyers

[bsdbsd]

I dont want to go off topic, but I had to mention this after reading all the posts here (esp shankar.balan's).

My family had the fortune of going on a long drive on a Scorpio belonging to our family friend's. Within 30 mins of drive, my wife threw up and kids sitting in third row (total 3 of them) experienced severe motion sickness and threw up as well. One young kid slept off for a long time and woke up only after the drive ended. It was very unpleasant to all involved. I just want to note that facts are facts, and we can not look at everything from "subjectivity"'s lens. After this, I ended up buying a Honda City. Though every person may not experience the same, some people DO experience it in a decidedly severe manner. We can not brush off these under the guise of "subjectivity" (NaMo travels in one, How can a 61 year old travel etc). Though my family experienced motion sickness in an Innova (45 mins drive to Goa airport), it was not as severe as the one in Scorpio. My point is that, shankar.balan has a point, borne out of his own experience, and it can be validated at many ends. Absolutely no offence to anyone, or any of the vehicles involved here in the discussions.

[Steeroid]

Originally Posted by vipinendran

Neither my friends or family and I find any appreciable difference in the suspension set up or swaying motion of these vehicles.

Then you have made the right choice with your vehicle. Let others who perceive the difference make their choices based on their own perceptions.

[tuhin11]

Ok we all know the Quanto flopped before the launch itself. Few suggestions.

Mahindra's R&D team needs to get back to the drawing board and put heads to together to see what went wrong apart from the obvious ones. The vehicle has probably everthing in that segment except looks. It would means pumping more money to revive the model. The height aspect definetely needs to be looked into and shortened. The wheels are certainly a misfit and it needs bigger ones. The vehicle is too heavy for a sub 4 metre, knock off those extra kilos. The rear needs a revamp probably like the BMW X1 types. The bodylines needs to be relooked at and needs a fine tuning there. Something on the lines of the Ecosport.

[deep_bang]

I think this thread is becoming a M&M bashing thread. Lets get back to the topic. The original post was all about why is quanto not doing well. The question is not "why is M&M not doing well".

So, here is my take:
1. I have already commented on my previous post that as a Quanto owner, the problems I see are the body roll and the hard clutch.

2. There are more options like EcoSport/Duster (although they are more expensive).

3. The target audience is strictly a city user - not much in Tier 2 cities. WHY? Tier 2 cities generally look for value for money options, specifically value for Money per seat. Scorpio fits the bill perfectly.
It is the city user who wants a "SUV/MUV" and yet travel only with one or two people, possibly with kids on weekends, and possibly add a person or two in the 3rd row once a month. And this vehicle is for such a person.

When you have reduced your target audience to a select few in the city, numbers will be small.

5. The problem is that Quanto does not have any one SINGLE USP, apart from the price. And I think if it had some USP - like good ride, or very good fuel efficiency, or foldable 2nd row to give maximum luggage area - something, it might have clicked better. Right now it is a jack of all trades.

I personally think that in the Indian market, looks do get overlooked if there are other strengths.

[harishpr]

Till the people's mindset and priority changes, companies will continue to manufacture and sell low-engineered coupled with high-profit products.
It also depends a lot on market trends. I can take my own example here :
my first car my mid 20s was zen, with no abs or airbags. I didn't even consider safety as a criteria while buying zen.
During my late 20s, I went for manza since space became priority and awareness around safety increased a bit by then. So I chose manza with abs and airbags.
Last year, comfort became the priority for me due to long distance commute and acute backpain, so I chose civic automatic from used car market for 6lacs.
This car didn't serve me well, and I sold it in few months.
Now, safety takes paramount importance for me while choosing the car. Thankfully, I have the economical stability and choice to go for a good car offering decent space, performance, quality, handling and safety. So I booked a YETI. it's my personal choice to see yeti as the best vehicle for me under 25lacs.

For me, it's been a transformation over 13 years. And I'm confident of choosing what I want for next decade or so.

I'm sure that my journey isn't unique and several fellow citizens out their are in same boat. It just depends on which phase of life they are in.

Any manufacturer will focus on the market need and provide the best possible choice, with good margins.

In my PERSONAL opinion, if safety is made as priority, more than half of the cars in India don't make the cut. Similarly, if design or performance or quality or space is taken as priority, more than half won't qualify.
Our market is driven by 'kms per liter' coupled with 'low maintenance' mindset.

Therefore rather than bashing any manufacturer, let's hope and spread awareness that our money deserves better value, and defeat every model which is low-engineered or poor on quality.

[silverado]

Way forward for Quanto is to have cheaper variants.
I don't know how, but they have to shed some weight.

How about a cheaper 5 seater variant, with cheaper engine option.

How about having a slightly lower tyre profile = bigger rim to improve handling ( Don't know how much it will affect the already poor ride quality )

Add plastic claddings to reduce glassarea, which is huge and as per reports reduce ac effectiveness.

And the obvious thing, change the frontal looks, heck that pickup truck based on xylo looks sharp ( genio ).

I am sure there is a big market for a 6-7 lakh smart looking Compact SUV.

[shankar.balan]

Originally Posted by harishpr

let's hope and spread awareness that our money deserves better value, and defeat every model which is low-engineered or poor on quality.

Such a nice post and so true. I totally endorse this. Collectively we really can and must make that difference.

With today's speeds and the kind of things one sees on our roads, it would simply be sensible for us consumers to focus on "safety" as a necessary priority item rather than a luxury.

And most certainly our money deserves value - the way that all cards sold in even the meanest country in Europe simple have to conform to EU Standards, it is absolutely imperative that our Indian Government makes the same mandatory rule for the manufacturers to follow - especially when it comes to safety.