[avira_tk]

Originally Posted by Samurai

This thread is not about somebody who can't drive at 30.

This thread is not about rash young drivers either.

I avoid night driving since my eyes are affected a lot by high beams. But this thread is not about me either.

This thread is about elderly drivers who have lost their ability for drive competently, like my mom's cousin who is 88 and can barely control the car.

All his cousins who are in their 70s and 80s themselves, are saying they find his driving scary. How is that discriminating?

The thread is about some high minded good intention to have more government control over who drives at what age. People are usually forthcoming with such advice when it has no effect on them, its only terrible when someone else does it. 30 year olds who can't drive are as bad as 80 years olds who can't, seeing is believing. My night driving reference was about falling asleep, high beams are here to stay thanks to those wonderful younger drivers (I am one right now by the way) with a huge sense of entitlement.

The 88 year old is not dependant on anyone, kudos to him. Its easy to have an opinion but quite difficult to make any alternate provisions for him, let him be, considering what passes off as driving these days, he can't be too dangerous.

[Samurai]

Originally Posted by avira_tk

The 88 year old is not dependant on anyone, kudos to him. Its easy to have an opinion but quite difficult to make any alternate provisions for him, let him be, considering what passes off as driving these days, he can't be too dangerous.

All his cousins who have known him since childhood think he is a menace on road right now. Many of them live on the same road, and are scared of being on the receiving end. And you want to give him kudos. How can you say this without having seen him drive?

All of his cousins (all younger than him) have given up driving and are using paid driver or taxi or public transport. His 3 kids can provide him a driver. That is something they can easily afford.

[IshaanIan]

I believe that if one is capable of driving and sharing the road with other motorists, in an acceptable manner, then he/she should be allowed to do so.

This is where one ought to take things up with the authorities; the driving tests are so extremely laughable. I was shocked to see people who managed to ding a Maruti 800 on a figure of eight, being allowed to take it again and again till they finished the basic test. I would send them straight back home and let them re-apply only after 3 months.

With elderly people, perhaps they can reduce the term of validity so that a constant check is kept on their abilities.

[Gansan]

I think completion of seventy years would be a reasonably good age to stop driving, provided one possesses all the faculties till then.

[anurag.somani]

The default validity of a Driving License is 20 years. How about reducing it to 5/10 years once you are above 60.

That way the government can use the already existing infrastructure to evaluate your driving skills and the physically fit senior citizens do not suffer a blanket ban.

[avira_tk]

Originally Posted by IshaanIan

I believe that if one is capable of driving and sharing the road with other motorists, in an acceptable manner, then he/she should be allowed to do so.

This is where one ought to take things up with the authorities; the driving tests are so extremely laughable. I was shocked to see people who managed to ding a Maruti 800 on a figure of eight, being allowed to take it again and again till they finished the basic test. I would send them straight back home and let them re-apply only after 3 months.

With elderly people, perhaps they can reduce the term of validity so that a constant check is kept on their abilities.

Agree with you wholesale, the testing process is what makes driving skills a joke. I remember a guy complaining about the corruption in the RTO that prevented people like him, who came without a driving school/agent, from getting a license. We were seated next to each other for the written exam and his first doubt was for this question.
Which side of the road do you drive on?
a. Left
b. Right
c. Either
That gave me a reason to believe the system wasn't damaged beyond repair.
The actual driving test was for about 50m.
Unless we have some real standards, age can't be blanket factor to keep people off the roads.

[jayded]

I'm sure most of us here consider themselves as the best driver behind the wheel of a car and believe they'll continue to be till the D-day, irrespective of what time does to their body and reflexes and ability to deal with stress. So this good driver/bad driver concept is mostly relative and cannot be used to judge a persons real ability to manage a car in today's traffic.

If you ask me whether an elderly person should be allowed to drive? My answer would be yes, provided they have a system in place to prove/verify that he can still handle a car. But would I "want" to see the elderly person driving around in the madness? Nope, I prefer to see him/her relaxing on the back seat of a chauffeured sedan reading a book. Now that is how you want a retired life right? For all the elderly petrol heads who still want their kicks once in a while, there'll always be track days, lol.

[shankar.balan]

Originally Posted by Samurai

1) When you say people don't dim (physically deteriorate) with age, just because your dad isn't doing so, I feel you are patronising the elderly. My maternal uncle (75) was very strong in his 30-40s. If I tell him now that he is as strong as then, he will know I am patronising him, albeit affectionately. In 30 years if my son says I am as strong as in my 40s, I'll probably smack him with my weak hands for patronising, albeit affectionately. 2) When you replace one discussion with another, it is a red herring. That is my understanding of the concept. We can agree to disagree. Strongly, if you prefer.

Cool, lets strongly agree to strongly disagree!

To point 1, clarifying here again that the intent is NOT to patronize the Seniors at all.

To point 2, the intent was not to 'replace' one discussion with another, thereby causing, as per your posts, the arrival of herrings, red, purple, green or multi-coloured; the intent was merely to provide a foil and a point of comparison.

[Coupé]

I've voted no, because mental and physical fitness deteriorate with age. I think 70 is when I will probably give up driving. The poll could have been more specific and tested whether it should be 65 - 70, 71 - 75, 76 - 80 or 81 - 85.

[DerAlte]

Originally Posted by gostel

... People above 60 are required to renew their DLs every 5 years instead of the 10 years period for younger folks ...

At age 50, there is a compulsory test to grant another 10 years, then renewal test every 5 years. But, you have a point.

The issue in India, not just with road manners, is something that should be taught from childhood in schools:

1. One's rights cannot be at the cost of another person's rights. That means if due to the abilities of one's vehicle / self one is able to go faster, that cannot be at the cost of the road rights of another person with lesser vehicle / self abilities, and vice-versa

2. There is a simple principle on which ALL road rules and laws are based: no one should drive on the road in a way that obstructs another person, or causes the other person to brake or take evasive action. Think - all accidents are a result of violation of this simple principle

3. Laws are to be obeyed, not trifled with or taken liberties with

Sounds idealistic, right? In developed countries, these are the 3 simple principles that maintain law and order. Police intervenes only in extreme cases. In modern India, either people are ignorant of these principles, or violate it with impunity.

With these principles, the elderly would not be excluded from having their space - they would be treated like anyone else. Which means, the rules have to be applied rationally with respect to their abilities. If their abilities are insufficient for safe driving, they shouldn't be allowed drive.

It is only in India we (patronizingly) don't wish to hear anything remotely disrespectful of people substantially older than us, even if we are on the wrong side of logic.

[shankar.balan]

Originally Posted by DerAlte

It is only in India we (patronizingly) don't wish to hear anything remotely disrespectful of people substantially older than us, even if we are on the wrong side of logic.

While this might be true for India it is also quite true of quite a bit of the Eastern world. I am not too sure about the 'wrong side of logic' though.

[Gansan]

Originally Posted by DerAlte

At age 50, there is a compulsory test to grant another 10 years, then renewal test every 5 years. But, you have a point.

It is for five years. My DL which expired in 2010 ( my 50th birth day), was renewed up to 2015 only.

[Samurai]

Originally Posted by Coupé

I've voted no, because mental and physical fitness deteriorate with age. I think 70 is when I will probably give up driving. The poll could have been more specific and tested whether it should be 65 - 70, 71 - 75, 76 - 80 or 81 - 85.

I considered changing the title to mention testing, but then I realised that all the votes so far were based on the current title. It would be wrong to change the question after the voting.

Originally Posted by DerAlte

Sounds idealistic, right? In developed countries, these are the 3 simple principles that maintain law and order. Police intervenes only in extreme cases. In modern India, either people are ignorant of these principles, or violate it with impunity.

In developed countries, people know driving is a privilege and not a right. In India people think it is a right.

Originally Posted by DerAlte

It is only in India we (patronizingly) don't wish to hear anything remotely disrespectful of people substantially older than us, even if we are on the wrong side of logic.

Same problem exists in USA, for a very different reason. In the 90s I used to hear many debates on radio and TV about taking the car keys away from elders who are too old to drive. But no US congressman or US Senator would take up this cause. That is because of one compelling reason. No matter how diminished in capacity, there is one thing every senior citizen in USA does without fail, they VOTE!

[shankar.balan]

In a lighter vein, I know a lot of 'elderly' people in the plantation districts of Southern India, who can show us 'younger lot' a thing or six about fitness, driving skills, anticipation, car care and maintenance, knowledge and appreciation of rules and laws, courtesy, manners and a number of other things.
Personally I would vastly prefer to drive on roads populated by such people any day in preference to sharing the road with the sort of half-witted creatures that one encounters in Bangalore!

[Coupé]

Originally Posted by DerAlte

It is only in India we (patronizingly) don't wish to hear anything remotely disrespectful of people substantially older than us, even if we are on the wrong side of logic.

I think the reason why this happens more in India is that many are dependent (financially or otherwise) on their elders.

Originally Posted by jhaji

If the young below a certain age can be barred, why not the elderly above a certain age. But the young are barred only till a certain time; they can drive for the rest of their lives. You want to ban the elderly for the rest of their life. It is not the same.

Kids are barred from driving because they may think it's a game and their sense of responsibility may not have developed fully. Elders on the other hand should give up driving and not think of it as their right because faculties like vision, hearing, reflexes tend to diminish with age. Some people tend to age better but for the rest it is beyond their control. No one is saying that the age to give up driving should be 50 or 60, but surely it is not the same as 70 or 80, just like 40 is not the same as 20.