[swarnava.m]

Originally Posted by romeomidhun

So are you saying that there will be variants like:

1. AMT + Fully automatic
2. AMT + Fully automatic + manual,

and not an "Only AMT" variant?

Not quite. I think it would be:

• AMT + Full AT
• MT

[Sandman689]

Originally Posted by audioholic

OT I think the DSGs in skoda would be far reliable if the product was built and tested in India

Then maybe we should invite these European manufacturers to test there vehicles here in our country so that they can compete with Japanese reliability.

[sumannandy]

This is definitely a good step forward. However, they should not discontinue the AT. A Star AT is an awesome fun to drive vehicle. People who wanted a full AT can always go for the AT. You also get the benefit of torque multiplier that comes in handy in steep slopes. Not sure if the AMT would offer any such benefit.

Also, not sure if it would offer the convenience of keeping the car at standstill at traffic by just pressing the brake without stalling and if the car would move forward when you release the brake, a feature handy in steep inclines.

[zenren]

Originally Posted by sumannandy

Also, not sure if it would offer the convenience of keeping the car at standstill at traffic by just pressing the brake without stalling and if the car would move forward when you release the brake, a feature handy in steep inclines.

That's the minimum expectation for any vehicle without a clutch. I'm sure it would be there for AMT too but expect a slight lag.

Originally Posted by Sandman689

Then maybe we should invite these European manufacturers to test there vehicles here in our country so that they can compete with Japanese reliability.

I think they are happy with milking the Indian customers who still think German engineering is superior, without any effort on their side to improve their quality. Why should they put more effort than what they currently do? India doesn't seem to be in their top priorities going by their actions.

[audioholic]

Originally Posted by sumannandy

. People who wanted a full AT can always go for the AT. You also get the benefit of torque multiplier that comes in handy in steep slopes. Not sure if the AMT would offer any such benefit.

Also, not sure if it would offer the convenience of keeping the car at standstill at traffic by just pressing the brake without stalling and if the car would move forward when you release the brake, a feature handy in steep inclines.

What does the torque multiplier do? I thought it was a fluid coupled clutch.

The AMT will be as good as an automatic, with better efficiency and will have the same functionality of an Automatic at a lower price. The clutch anyways is fluid controlled. It can be decoupled once the car starts slowing down and engine RPM drops below a certain speed. So there wont be a need to shift to neutral immediately. It can again depress the clutch once we let go of the brakes. An AMT will be better than a conventional automatic in almost any aspect, except for the time taken to change gears, which we dont know of the AMT that is being offered. If that is taken care of, then performance also will be amazing.

[sumannandy]

Originally Posted by audioholic

What does the torque multiplier do? I thought it was a fluid coupled clutch.

The AMT will be as good as an automatic, with better efficiency and will have the same functionality of an Automatic at a lower price. The clutch anyways is fluid controlled. It can be decoupled once the car starts slowing down and engine RPM drops below a certain speed. So there wont be a need to shift to neutral immediately. It can again depress the clutch once we let go of the brakes. An AMT will be better than a conventional automatic in almost any aspect, except for the time taken to change gears, which we dont know of the AMT that is being offered. If that is taken care of, then performance also will be amazing.

A torque multiplier on demand multiplies torque. Most of the ATs would be of this type (Not the DSGs or te CVTs I guess).

So in reality, in my experience, in steep slopes, starting from standstill, while my safari requires 4wd low, the A Star can easily pull through with 4 people on board and AC on.

Not sure if the AMT offers the same.

[noopster]

Originally Posted by pgsagar

This gearbox is same as current A-Star Autoamatic. D is pretty much there. For safety reason, stick stops at N. Then, one notch left and back and you are in D. One more notch left in the same plane and then up or down is manual.

This means they are sharing the AT gearshift unit across their range of cars. Similar to what VW does, or Skoda. Doesn't mean the underlying transmission is the same!

So, in effect, it is same torque converter as we see in A-Star with nothing additional. What we say tiptronic here is also present in A-Star AT as 3,2,L.

Nope. The Vento AT first gen gearshift is visually identical to the current gen but they are vastly different transmissions. The former is a 6 speed torque convertor while the latter is a 7 speed DSG. Just because the external shift mechanism looks the same does not automatically mean they are the same

[AKi10]

Here is a clear pic of the transmission.

[JayD]

Originally Posted by AKi10

Here is a clear pic of the transmission.Attachment 1194950

Looks like a normal Autobox with tiptronic controls. But where is the Park mode?

[audioholic]

Originally Posted by AKi10

Here is a clear pic of the transmission.Attachment 1194950

Originally Posted by audioholic

Does it seem to have a park? I think its R-N-(push left and down)D-(Push left and up or down)-Manual shift. So, in order to go to manual mode, you should move the lever left again from D mode.

Originally Posted by zenren

If there is no P, which position would you leave it when parking the car? D/R? You cannot obviously keep it in neutral. I don't think they'll save anything by removing out a P slot from the usual design.

I told ya

Originally Posted by JayD

But where is the Park mode?

Originally Posted by audioholic

Since the transmission is different compared to the planetary gearbox, while switching off, the transmission can engage a gear right irrespective of the selector? Since the selector is just a switch to indicate the demanded gear, it is still the TCM that decides which gear is selected. Nonetheless there is no harm in having a P either. I just felt that it may not be needed.

Hence the gearbox is not a conventional automatic.

Also, the P mode is not needed since the gearbox will be slotted to first after the car shuts down. In a conventional automatic, due to the nature of the torque convertor, the gearbox side will be free to rotate. Hence a Park mode is required as the parking pawl will lock up the gear cogs to prevent the car from moving. But here in the AMT, the clutch will offer direct coupling which will prevent the car from moving in gear when the engine is off.

[AKi10]

Originally Posted by audioholic

I told ya






Hence the gearbox is not a conventional automatic.

Also, the P mode is not needed since the gearbox will be slotted to first after the car shuts down. In a conventional automatic, due to the nature of the torque convertor, the gearbox side will be free to rotate. Hence a Park mode is required as the parking pawl will lock up the gear cogs to prevent the car from moving. But here in the AMT, the clutch will offer direct coupling which will prevent the car from moving in gear when the engine is off.

Absolutely correct. This is not a conventional autobox. Its very much a conventional Manual box with a mechanical and hydraulic unit controlling the clutch action instead of a foot pedal.

You can park on any mode. The engine will start only with the brake depressed.
R-N slot left and down for D. This is in fully automatic mode.
Slot left from D for M. This is in Manual Sequential. With down action for moving up the gears and up action for moving down the gears.

Display cluster will show gear indication in both auto and manual mode.

[audioholic]

Originally Posted by AKi10

Display cluster will show gear indication in both auto and manual mode.

BTW where did you take this pic? Has it already arrived with the dealer?

A few final queries to clear the air over the AMT:

1. How many ratios on offer?
2. For anyone who is into this technology, how much does the AMT module cost? AFAIK it is just bolted on to a normal transmission and clutch, something similar to the ABS module. Since this is new and mostly non localised, will it really cost lesser than a conventional automatic?

EDIT: Read about a plant in manesar setup or being setup for manufacturing these units. Hence yes the costs will noto be sky high.

[AKi10]

Originally Posted by audioholic

A few final queries to clear the air over the AMT:

1. How many ratios on offer?
2. For anyone who is into this technology, how much does the AMT module cost? AFAIK it is just bolted on to a normal transmission and clutch, something similar to the ABS module. Since this is new and mostly non localised, will it really cost lesser than a conventional automatic?

Not sure on the gear ratios yet.
This is definitely cheaper than a conventional auto box.

[djpeesh]

Also, currently all auto transmission gearboxes are imported. Once it's made in big volumes in India, the costs come down. And as someone mentioned, since it's an automated manual, it's cheaper than a conventional auto

[pgsagar]

Originally Posted by noopster

Just because the external shift mechanism looks the same does not automatically mean they are the same

I was not going by external looks. I said this knowing Maruti who used same gear-box in A-Star and SX4. When two cars as far apart as these two can have same gear-box, why not cars of same class. This is what I surmised.