[StarScream]

Originally Posted by sa_kiran

Being a satisfied City owner, this is a very sad news. I don't want to be part of German horror stories, Cruze is not so great and Corolla Altis is dull looking. So, upgrade option is non-existent

Elantra?

Originally Posted by sawnilrules

Now with no Civic in the picture, my next upgrade is sadly not going to be a Honda.

I've gone through a very similar thought process and although I've booked the 2014 City, I'm caught in two minds between it and the Elantra. The Korean car is the only one that fits the value-cum-reliability equation (among petrol cars) in its segment in the absence of the Civic.

[RSR]

This is a sad development. When it was launched, the Civic was a car that made everyone go "Wow!" with its styling inside & out and performance. It was also a favorite of the modifiers and the tuners. It suffered later due to the lack of a diesel engine.

The C2 sedans are getting bigger, better and safer {the Verna SX(O) now has 6 airbags and rear disc brakes & a diesel automatic variant with these features too} and along with the hugely popular compact SUVs, may be eating into the D1 sedan sales. But that doesn't necessarily mean the segment is dying.

Here are the Jan '14 sales numbers for the D1 sedan segment:

Hyundai Elantra - 353
Škoda Octavia - 160
Volkswagen Jetta - 143
Toyota Corolla Altis - 113
Chevrolet Cruze - 100
Renault Fluence - 2

The total monthly size of this segment was 871 units last month. With the launch of the new Corolla Altis and the facelifted Fluence, it should do ~ 1000 units each month. This is a fairly healthy number. The D1 sedans are faring much better than the D2 sedans, whose total segment size was only 112 units in January (though it may be ~ 200 on average) consisting of:

Toyota Camry - 81
Škoda Superb - 19
Hyundai Sonata - 9
Nissan Teana - 3

Honda have now exited both these segments with high margins, though they may launch the next-gen Accord later. It's a clear indication that Honda are aiming big in the volumes segment and want to become one of the top 3 manufacturers in the country. Once they achieve this with the upcoming Mobilio, Jazz and perhaps another vehicle, they may want to get into the high margin segments again.

[sarathlal]

Originally Posted by RSR

Once they achieve this with the upcoming Mobilio, Jazz and perhaps another vehicle, they may want to get into the high margin segments again.

Or have Acura models take those slots?

[aaggoswami]

This is not a good move. If Elantra can sell decently for its present segment standards, why cant Honda again try to relaunch Civic ?
Honda has a new 1.6 diesel from which the current 1.5 is derived. Elantra too is with 1.6 diesel unit.
Hyundai, to its credit, manages to sell Verna and Elantra rather well. Why cant City and Civic exist together then ? The current City is also having an evolutionary body style over last gen. City.
The real competition to D1 segment is coming from SUV and MPV segments. If Honda is venturing out into those segments at the cost of Civic's availability in Indian market, the strategy could be understood, but it does not seem to be the case atleast as of now.
IMHO, Honda is not ready to take risk and is focusing on volumes ( and margins ? ) than being present in D1 segment. This way, IMO, the brand value might take a back seat.
Civic with a 1.6 diesel heart tuned the way they managed to tune 1.5 will certainly get reasonable volumes, brand value might also remain strong.

Last but certainly not the least, the C2 segment vs D1. The products might have improved, but so has the price. Majority volumes are under Rs. 10 lakh and delivering at that price point matters more than C2 cars competing with products of other segment with feature/power/safety kit if volumes ( or economies of scale ) are top priority.

[vasudeva]

In the linked news, I could not see any official statement from Honda at all about the Civic. Just some extrapolation by the reporter. Specifically,

```The Civic sedan was discontinued in 2012 and Honda has not launched its successor. Honda stopped assembling the Civic in India on account of poor sales...''.

The report also says

```Despite this, Honda is unwilling to bring back the Civic as the car maker feels that the D segment is no longer growing quickly with SUVs like the Renault Duster and Mahindra XUV500 eating into sedan sales..

Nothing official in it. Who knows.

[sarathlal]

Originally Posted by vasudeva

In the linked news, I could not see any official statement from Honda at all about the Civic. Just some extrapolation by the reporter.

Nothing official in it. Who knows.

That's true, but please do check this post also. This interview was the only place from where a direct inference on the fate on Civic from Honda official was available.

http://www.team-bhp.com/forum/indian...ml#post3168600

[vasoo]

Honda seems to have realized that bringing in their international models is not helpful to them, either in terms of pricing or sales volumes. Hence market specific models like City, Brio and Amaze will remain their core products here. Jazz may be the only exception, if it gets launched within a reasonable price range.

They seem to have a problem in "Indianizing" their international models when launched here, making the pricing very stiff. Toyota and others seemed to have learnt this art.

[swiftnfurious]

Originally Posted by vasudeva

In the linked news, I could not see any official statement from Honda at all about the Civic. Just some extrapolation by the reporter. Specifically,

....

Nothing official in it. Who knows.

Reasons I can think of for NOT launching the new Civic

- New Civic actually got a lot of negative reviews over the world for it's bland design Vs the outgoing model
- Very heavy resemblance with the current City
- The product road map doesn't say anything about Civic for close to next 2 years
- By then, probably it's time for the launch of next generation Civic; hence launching an outdated product would NOT give Honda any advantage
- Their production capacity constraints (though with the new plant, might be properly used for Mobilio / Jazz)

[vasudeva]

Originally Posted by sarathlal

That's true, but please do check this post also. This interview was the only place from where a direct inference on the fate on Civic from Honda official was available.

http://www.team-bhp.com/forum/indian...ml#post3168600

Thanks for pointing this out. It seems unlikely for Civic to make an appearance in India anytime soon. Recent news reports point to Mobilio.

On the other hand:
1. The interview is dated June 2013.
2. There were more recent tweets/articles (Nov) about Civic being tested in India.
3. Then there is the Mobilio.

So, definitely not curtains on Civic but nothing expected soon???

[shk 8896]

It is indeed a sad news.
Why do they shelve the plan to launch Civic even when there are still people to buy the car?
It can become a successful car if Launched with a Diesel Motor(tuned for more performance) and the Petrol version for the Enthusiasts.
On a sarcastic note, I think that they will now launch a Stretched Amaze to replace the Civic
Then ,why on earth did they launch the 2013 CRV in India even if there are hardly any takers for the car.

[sarathlal]

Originally Posted by vasudeva

On the other hand:
1. The interview is dated June 2013.
2. There were more recent tweets/articles (Nov) about Civic being tested in India.
3. Then there is the Mobilio.

So, definitely not curtains on Civic but nothing expected soon???

But those tweets/articles are still speculations only and not official in nature. The last we heard from Honda is that the 9th Civic is not gonna be introduced in India.

Originally Posted by shk 8896

It is indeed a sad news.
Why do they shelve the plan to launch Civic even when there are still people to buy the car?

Reason by Swift n furious makes a lot of sense in this regard. Honda were too busy to expand the market and couldn't afford their time for the D seg. And by this time, the 9th gen already crossed its mid life span, so it indeed makes sense for them to skip this generation and attempt a totally fresh re launch, with maybe the 10th gen, when its ready.

Originally Posted by swiftnfurious

Reasons I can think of for NOT launching the new Civic

....
- The product road map doesn't say anything about Civic for close to next 2 years
- By then, probably it's time for the launch of next generation Civic; hence launching an outdated product would NOT give Honda any advantage
.....

[nim_peter]

Maybe it's me, but I feel they should have discontinued city and introduced a facelifted Civic to replace City, ofcourse with a Diesel heart. Yes, it will be a stripped down version, but they could have made it work.

[Baddychat]

Originally Posted by swiftnfurious

Reasons I can think of for NOT launching the new Civic

- New Civic actually got a lot of negative reviews over the world for it's bland design Vs the outgoing model
- Very heavy resemblance with the current City
- The product road map doesn't say anything about Civic for close to next 2 years
- By then, probably it's time for the launch of next generation Civic; hence launching an outdated product would NOT give Honda any advantage
- Their production capacity constraints (though with the new plant, might be properly used for Mobilio / Jazz)

Agree with you in principle. The 2013 Civic really did not have much going for it.
What I still cannot accept is that they discontinued the Accord and continued to manufacture the CR-V! Talk about sense. I do not think there are many takers for a petrol guzzling soft-roader in India these days. The potential customer base of the Accord would still be a set of people who drive around in the city even with a petrol engine. :-)

[StarScream]

Originally Posted by shk 8896

Then ,why on earth did they launch the 2013 CRV in India even if there are hardly any takers for the car.

Originally Posted by Baddychat

What I still cannot accept is that they discontinued the Accord and continued to manufacture the CR-V! Talk about sense. I do not think there are many takers for a petrol guzzling soft-roader in India these days.

The reason for continuing with the CR-V could be very simple. I don't think Honda has too much invested in manufacturing it in India. The earlier models were CBUs and the current one is CKD, made against firm orders. In its segment -- petrol softroader -- there is no competition and hence no pricing pressure. They can keep it in the lineup as a halo product and sell it to those people who really want one at the list price. As a Honda SA told me "yeh toh Honda ke diwaane he lete hai."

The Civic and Accord were more mainstream products, even if they were CKDs. That meant more production, maintaining a stock, investment from dealers in test drive cars etc. (Try getting a test drive for a specific CR-V variant -- either they won't have it or they'll show a customer's car.) To add to that, the Civic and Accord were positioned in competitive segments where they lacked a diesel engine and they couldn't command any outrageous price.

I'll bet if Honda could sell a Civic for 20-odd lakhs, they'd happily continue selling the car in India.

[Equus]

Honda is doing the right thing by going after the growth sectors. They will soon have 2 hatches in Brio/Jazz. They have 2 sedans in Amaze and City. Actually City extends almost into Civic territory now with its space & power was never an issue too.
Mobilio is in the Ertiga segment and this is the most awaited Honda today!
Vezel (if launched) would complete the growth sectors very well.
Offcourse they have Accord and CRV (for showcasing!).

They are doing the right thing for addressing todays market drivers.
The Jazz diesel would actually change the game IMO. Clearly it means that it should be in/around i20 price-territory.

Civic would cannibalize City (vice-versa too) and the net-net sales figures in this segment would more-or-less be the same. Having 2 models (City/Civic) would need lot more investments in mktg/sales/engg/service etc.