[Rahul Bhalgat]

Originally Posted by Mr.Boss

Asking out of curiosity, is there any indicator to estimate the remaining life?

I estimated the remaining life from the speed of crack propagation in the rubber bush.

You can see two cracks on the bush. One (the longer one) propagates when the wheel goes over a bump. The other propagates when the wheel goes through a pothole. One of the cracks is visible from outside.

When I first noticed the cracks at 85000 km, the visible crack was spanning around 90° (one fourth of a circle). By the time I replaced the lower arms at 1,06,xxx km, it was spanning around 105°. So the arms served 21,xxx km for around 15° propagation.

After replacing the lower arms, I realized that the thud sound (which had stimulated the investigation at 85,000 km) was not because of arms, it was because of the stabilizer link rods. So the arms could have been used till the crack propagates by another 15°, still it spans around one third of the circle. Thus means a life of another 21,000 km. Even if you consider faster deterioration, they should have lasted for 10,000 - 15,000 km.

And the cracks were penetrating only half the depth.

[Mr.Boss]

Originally Posted by Rahul Bhalgat

When I first noticed the cracks at 85000 km, the visible crack was spanning around 90° (one fourth of a circle). By the time I replaced the lower arms at 1,06,xxx km, it was spanning around 105°. So the arms served 21,xxx km for around 15° propagation.

After replacing the lower arms, I realized that the thud sound (which had stimulated the investigation at 85,000 km) was not because of arms, it was because of the stabilizer link rods. So the arms could have been used till the crack propagates by another 15°, still it spans around one third of the circle. Thus means a life of another 21,000 km. Even if you consider faster deterioration, they should have lasted for 10,000 - 15,000 km.

Sorry for being off-topic.

Though I agree on the crack propagation vs time (or mileage) phenomena, it is non-linear and couldn't expect the same life (20k km) for another 15deg crack propagation.

My car had a similar crack at 40k km and remains same after completing 60k km.

[Rahul Bhalgat]

Originally Posted by Mr.Boss

Sorry for being off-topic.

Though I agree on the crack propagation vs time (or mileage) phenomena, it is non-linear and couldn't expect the same life (20k km) for another 15deg crack propagation.

My car had a similar crack at 40k km and remains same after completing 60k km.

Yes, that is why I had considered only 10-15 k considering faster propagation. For broad understanding of all forum members I did not use the term Non-linear.

[adimicra]

MY Honda Jazz is 9 years and 90K kms old. The last 10K kms I have driven over absolutely terrible roads or non-existent roads due to lots of road construction activities going on in my neighbourhood.
I feel the front suspension is gone - there is excessive bounciness whenever I cross a speedbreaker or pothole, the front end feels very loose., the car scrapes more often than earlier. I am thinking it's high time to replace the front suspension.

Now, I am not a technical person but I do know that the suspension is composed of several different parts. How do I know which parts need to be changed? I am sure it will cost a lot at Honda A.S.S. Should I go to another garage to get it checked? Is it safe to get it replaced from an outside garage considering it is a very critical component?

[greendream]

Originally Posted by adimicra

I am not a technical person but I do know that the suspension is composed of several different parts. How do I know which parts need to be changed? I am sure it will cost a lot at Honda A.S.S. Should I go to another garage to get it checked? Is it safe to get it replaced from an outside garage considering it is a very critical component?

A 90k km driven cars suspension overhaul needs all the parts to be replaced. Even if you skip some part, for getting that part replaced after a while, the labour cost will hurt. Ideally both front and rear suspension overhaul is recommended.
If you know someone in Honda A.S.S. go ahead with them. Any independent mechanic who knows his trade can do the required job. The labour works out cheaper. Honda A.S.S. is certainly expensive and quality of work is not extraordinary in recent times. If you are looking for a garage, please go through my post here..https://www.team-bhp.com/forum/india...ml#post4667258 (Maruti service centers in Hyderabad).

[adimicra]

Why both front and rear should be done together?

Thanks for the reference. I will talk to them and also a few references I have got and then make a decision. Can people share the typical cost for a suspension overhaul?

[BeingHuman]

Typical cost of front suspension overhaul is 25-35000Rs(for vehicles in 10-15L range) if done in FNG.
Rear suspension mostly consists of trailing arm and shock absorbers(2-3000rs each).
If all shock absorbers are replaced to new the vehicle dynamics will be good.

[Aroy]

Originally Posted by adimicra

MY Honda Jazz is 9 years and 90K kms old. The last 10K kms I have driven over absolutely terrible roads or non-existent roads due to lots of road construction activities going on in my neighbourhood.
I feel the front suspension is gone - there is excessive bounciness whenever I cross a speedbreaker or pothole, the front end feels very loose., the car scrapes more often than earlier. I am thinking it's high time to replace the front suspension.

Now, I am not a technical person but I do know that the suspension is composed of several different parts. How do I know which parts need to be changed? I am sure it will cost a lot at Honda A.S.S. Should I go to another garage to get it checked? Is it safe to get it replaced from an outside garage considering it is a very critical component?

If the car bounces, then the shock absorbers (dampers) are gone. It is easily checked
1. Stop the car on a flat plane surface.
2. Make sure that the front wheels are pointing straight.
3. Now press the left side of the bonnet so that the front left is depressed.
4. Release it. If it goes up fast and/or bounces up and down, that shock absorber is gone.
5. Repeat with the front right and both the rear sides.

If the linkages are worn there will be a play. Just press each side and release it slightly to check for play.

If there is some play or the some shock absorbers are gone, then go for suspension overhaul, else you can do with replacement of the shock absorbers only.

[adimicra]

Originally Posted by Aroy

If the car bounces, then the shock absorbers (dampers) are gone. It is easily checked
1. Stop the car on a flat plane surface.
2. Make sure that the front wheels are pointing straight.
3. Now press the left side of the bonnet so that the front left is depressed.
4. Release it. If it goes up fast and/or bounces up and down, that shock absorber is gone.
5. Repeat with the front right and both the rear sides.

If the linkages are worn there will be a play. Just press each side and release it slightly to check for play.

If there is some play or the some shock absorbers are gone, then go for suspension overhaul, else you can do with replacement of the shock absorbers only.

I tried this test but could not get the suspension to depress or lower at all.
I don't know what I am doing wrong but I did put my entire body weight of 72 kgs on one side of the car front and all I could sense it little flex in the body panel, no movement from the suspension

I am thinking I will seek professional opinion from some nearby car garages. My Honda SA has given me an approx quotation of 50K from complete front suspension replacement including taxes and labour. I enquired with 'GoMechanic' and received a tentative quotation of 26K. Also, enquired with a couple of FNGs and got a quotation of 18K-19K. What I understand is that most of these garages use some honda OE parts and some aftermarket stuff (will try to get in more details about the parts).

Now, my question is what should I do? Is it okay to go ahead with a FNG? Considering the car is 9 years old, I don't want to spend a lot. I have the intention to keep the car for another 3-4 years though.

[Tgo]

Originally Posted by adimicra

Now, my question is what should I do? Is it okay to go ahead with a FNG

I was sailing in the same boat for my 2012 Duster. What I found out was that the shocks are manufactured by Monroe. The Renault ones are also Monroe but they have the Renault lozenge stamped on them and probably also the Renault part number. They come with a 20K km and 1 year part + fitment warranty.

Other parts like the Link rods, bushes, bump stops etc are some VR or VIR make (indigenous) and I had no trust on their quality specially after having a look at their website. They could be good since a lot of people have got them fitted with being content with the fact that they cost half of what the Renault OE parts does.

So basically when the car went for its 1.7 Lac service, the SA dis a clever thing. He suggested change of bump stops and bushes. While dismantling the shocks for their installation he shared a video of the shock having no resistance and being pushed in all the way very easily. The choppy ride and handling since the last 20k kms corroborated the same. So went in for a full front suspension replacement (barring control arms, since it was not required) in view of the part and fitment warranty. Rear could be taken up later thus not costing a bomb at once.

A job outside would cost me 55-60% of what I paid to Renault for it. But there would be no written warranty anywhere for the work done.

[Aroy]

Originally Posted by adimicra

I tried this test but could not get the suspension to depress or lower at all.
I don't know what I am doing wrong but I did put my entire body weight of 72 kgs on one side of the car front and all I could sense it little flex in the body panel, no movement from the suspension

.......

Now, my question is what should I do? Is it okay to go ahead with a FNG? Considering the car is 9 years old, I don't want to spend a lot. I have the intention to keep the car for another 3-4 years though.

If the car does not depress, then the shock absorbers are jammed, in short gone and have to be replaced. This is the best time to replace all rubber parts in the suspension and check for any wear in the linkages.

I have found that most of the time FNG is as good as the dealer for these small jobs. Just find one who has experienced mechanics preferably those with 20+ years of experience in doing suspension jobs. No only do the old timers know their job, they over years have gained experience in what to do and what to avoid while carrying out their tasks, some thing very few youngsters are willing to learn.

[Swapnil4585]

Why do suspensions bottom out frequently? And which are the components of a suspension system that, when worn out, cause rattles?

My Altis front suspension is bottoming out in every six - eight months. The car is being driven on bad roads since a couple of years. Is this the sole reason?

[Aroy]

Originally Posted by Swapnil4585

Why do suspensions bottom out frequently? And which are the components of a suspension system that, when worn out, cause rattles?

My Altis front suspension is bottoming out in every six - eight months. The car is being driven on bad roads since a couple of years. Is this the sole reason?

Car bottom out due to two reasons

1. Worn dampers (shock absorbers)
2. Worn rubber stops

Both the above are due to age and driving over bad roads will decrease the life. Get both checked and changed.

[Tgo]

Originally Posted by Swapnil4585

Why do suspensions bottom out frequently? And which are the components of a suspension system that, when worn out, cause rattles?

My Altis front suspension is bottoming out in every six - eight months. The car is being driven on bad roads since a couple of years. Is this the sole reason?

Bottoming out and rattles might be separate issues.

Bottoming out is when the car feels a sudden bump when the shock is compressed near the end of its travel. It is also associated with a saggy suspension (no rebound after loading the suspension). Basically the hydraulic valves in the shock absorber have gone bad and the resistance/damping they offer is diminished, as a result, the compression happens quicker and the control arms hit the bump stops giving the bump at the end of the suspension's travel.

Rattling is mainly from the ball joints or rubber bushes in a suspension system. There are a number of ball joints in a suspension system. These ball joints wear out and result in a play = rattles. Ball joints are present in the steering tie-rod ends, upper and lower king-pin / knuckle, track-link rods for the anti roll bar. Apart from these the rubber bushes in the suspension also perish and result in play = rattles. Bushes are present in the strut / shock absorber tower, control arm hinges etc.

Get a thorough inspection of all components in one go and replace all worn out parts in one go rather than on piece meal basis to get rid of the rattles altogether.

[Swapnil4585]

Originally Posted by Aroy

Car bottom out due to two reasons

1. Worn dampers (shock absorbers)
2. Worn rubber stops

Both the above are due to age and driving over bad roads will decrease the life. Get both checked and changed.

Originally Posted by Tgo

Get a thorough inspection of all components in one go and replace all worn out parts in one go rather than on piece meal basis to get rid of the rattles altogether.

I have changed the shock absorbers and bushes in last June. Time wise & distance wise, they should not go bad. But then, roads within my city and all distant highways are perpetually bad since over 3 years.

I will get the entire system checked and replace necessary items.