[Sutripta]

Two interrelated thoughts:
Is Cyrus Mistry a 'car guy' or 'management guy'?
By all accounts Ratan Tata was a 'car guy' and very hands on when it came to Tata Motors. Why then are the end results (the products) what they are?

Regards
Sutripta

[scopriobharath]

Originally Posted by Sutripta

Two interrelated thoughts:
Is Cyrus Mistry a 'car guy' or 'management guy'?
By all accounts Ratan Tata was a 'car guy' and very hands on when it came to Tata Motors. Why then are the end results (the products) what they are?

Regards
Sutripta

Ratan was a hands on guy but there was article which told that years back Tata motors had two routes to take.

1) less quality, faster product manufacture, more profit/volumes
2) High quality, slow product development and comparitively less profit.

Tata chose option 1 and this is the result. Indicas sold like hot cakes initially and now when there is competition offering a better quality, customers automatically shift there. Just FYI - Toyota / Honda / Hyundai chose option 2.


I vent my view again - Product development is one side, Aria is a brilliant product even today, offering segment first features and more spacious than segment leader Innova/XUV. Probably it even outcasts the X Trail in some aspects. No one picked up the Aria compared to other competitors. It is purely Service that matters. Customers have not picked even the basic aria for 11 lacs OTR. This is purely because of Service.

I do not say that XUV is a toyota but at least M&M did things right for the customer and put in RMs to handle the attitude of A.S.S. Niggles existed, but were acknowledged and rectified. If people want only a niggle free product, then only Toyotas and hondas would sell. People are okay with a niggle but it must be acknowledged and fixed by the manufacturer/A.S.S .

Brand Building is totally another ballgame. It is not possible to have a goal that "we want to be in the premium segment" from April 2014 and say by March 2015 say that we have not met that goal. Maruti is doing good business at the lower end of the spectrum only. Tata should have built aspriational products and also built up the QC/A.S.S in parallel and brought a winning game. If a brands needs to go premium, the stone needs to be laid for a long long time and the company should work in that direction by launching an equally good Portfolio. Tata is still an economy / commercial brand in many people's minds. They must change that mindset by launching inspirational products.

[zenren]

Originally Posted by Desi Dybuk

Call me vain, but I do feel that when a potential customer is thinking of spending 10-14 lackhs on your product, your premises also needs to reflect that of a serious enterprise wanting that business.

Let me add the condition of the test drive car too as something these dealerships need to keep an eye on. I went with a friend to the Tata dealership in Hyderabad a few years back to check out Manza. The staff there was well behaved and courteous and explained everything with the display car. My friend was happy with the car till we got into the TD vehicle. It looked okay on the outside but the dashboard was almost ready to fall apart and the soiled and worn out look of the dashboard really changed his decision. Some of the electrical items too had some issues. He lost all his confidence to put money on Tata after that TD.

[Jakku]

Just one report and people have jumped with sarcastic taunts at Tata Motors. I don't understand this attitude. Many of my friends who ridicules me of being an "unpaid & unrecognised brand ambassador" of TaMo and bashes any Tata car have never driven one and many have never been in one for a considerable time to gauge the +ves and -ves of one.

I own Indica Xeta (back in my native which was a gift to my parents) which completed 7 years of existence on last Christmas day. I have never been stranded anywhere, I have travelled to many places in South India with her. Solo trip from Thrissur to Salem, Bangalore (many times), Palakkad (innumerable times). With family & friends many times to Salem, Bangalore, Palakkad, and once to Sabarimala. I was never ever stranded anywhere and she have never let me down till time (touch wood). Usage of my car is very less - just covered 31000 km in 7+ years. In my family, we do have another 2 more Indicas which are really abused. Both of them are doing really great and going really strong.

I feel more confident while using this car more than my daily use - a Hyundai Accent Executive - and my F-I-L's car - a Swift (petrol).
I feel this old one is better than Vista (owned by my B-I-L)
I feel this old one more comfortable than Diesel Indica which is of the same age as of my Xeta (owned by my other B-I-L).

I am not claiming my ownership experience is totally void of any unpleasant incidents, but that is more from the knowledge of the ASS guys. The standard of the ASS needs a huge jump and the attitude needs another huge jump. Once this is taken care - atleast to a 50% improvement (upon prevailing standards) - we can see a sea of change. I would say it still the most VFM product (even after considering a void in ASS space). Many bad mouth advertisement goes for Tata which makes a prospective buyer to cut it even before giving it a try. Many jot it down as a part of shortlisting, but that is the first one to be axed from the list.

[pgsagar]

Originally Posted by Jakku

Just one report and people have jumped with sarcastic taunts at Tata Motors. I don't understand this attitude. Many of my friends who ridicules me of being an "unpaid & unrecognised brand ambassador" of TaMo and bashes any Tata car have never driven one and many have never been in one for a considerable time to gauge the +ves and -ves of one.

I own Indica Xeta (back in my native which was a gift to my parents) which completed 7 years of existence on last Christmas day. I have never been stranded anywhere, I have travelled to many places in South India with her. Solo trip from Thrissur to Salem, Bangalore (many times), Palakkad (innumerable times). With family & friends many times to Salem, Bangalore, Palakkad, and once to Sabarimala. I was never ever stranded anywhere and she have never let me down till time (touch wood). Usage of my car is very less - just covered 31000 km in 7+ years. In my family, we do have another 2 more Indicas which are really abused. Both of them are doing really great and going really strong.

I feel more confident while using this car more than my daily use - a Hyundai Accent Executive - and my F-I-L's car - a Swift (petrol).
I feel this old one is better than Vista (owned by my B-I-L)
I feel this old one more comfortable than Diesel Indica which is of the same age as of my Xeta (owned by my other B-I-L).

I am not claiming my ownership experience is totally void of any unpleasant incidents, but that is more from the knowledge of the ASS guys. The standard of the ASS needs a huge jump and the attitude needs another huge jump. Once this is taken care - atleast to a 50% improvement (upon prevailing standards) - we can see a sea of change. I would say it still the most VFM product (even after considering a void in ASS space). Many bad mouth advertisement goes for Tata which makes a prospective buyer to cut it even before giving it a try. Many jot it down as a part of shortlisting, but that is the first one to be axed from the list.

The ASS needs a huge jump in respect of all car brands. Tell me which make's car dealership is excellent. I don't know about other places but in my state, all car dalerships are useless. Whether Indian, Japanese, Korean, German or American. So, I don't think this dealership issue pertains only to Tata cars. This is another exaggeration to take a potshot at Tata cars.

[directinjection]

Originally Posted by pgsagar

The ASS needs a huge jump in respect of all car brands. Tell me which make's car dealership is excellent. I don't know about other places but in my state, all car dalerships are useless. Whether Indian, Japanese, Korean, German or American. So, I don't think this dealership issue pertains only to Tata cars. This is another exaggeration to take a potshot at Tata cars.

Fully agree with you. When I had a Maruti, every service at authorised service station had to be followed by one or more complaint trips. My experience with Fiat both before and after its separation from Tata, has been equally dissatisfactory.

For that matter, what's the level of service you get from non-auto companies in this company?

[wilful]

Whether it is German, American, Japanese or Korean, it is 'Indian' manning these service centres. And remember 'we are like that only'.

[pgsagar]

Originally Posted by directinjection

Fully agree with you. When I had a Maruti, every service at authorised service station had to be followed by one or more complaint trips. My experience with Fiat both before and after its separation from Tata, has been equally dissatisfactory.

For that matter, what's the level of service you get from non-auto companies in this company?

You mean service from other non-auto Tata cos.? Well, I do not use any of their products/services. My phone is idea, landline is BSNL and no dish TV ( use good ol' cable ). Oh, I do use Tata salt though. ( you can say maine Tata ka namak khaya hai), ha..ha...And, ok, watch is Titan but never had to take it back for service.

[directinjection]

Originally Posted by pgsagar

You mean service from other non-auto Tata cos.?

No, I wasn't referring to Tata companies but to service standards in India generally.

[pgsagar]

Originally Posted by directinjection

No, I wasn't referring to Tata companies but to service standards in India generally.

Well, we all know where it stands. It is the same everywhere. In general, service sucks. The enthusiasm shown in selling a product is not followed up in attending to after-sales service. And levels of knowledge possessed about a product/service by sales guys in any showroom across cities and across products, whether cars or TVs, is grossly insufficient.

When I walked into a TV showroom to buy a large screen TV last year, this sales guy was dishing out opinions about what size max a haousehold should have and people were lapping it all up like a gospel. My turn came and he asked me what size hall ( he meant viewing distance ). I said 14 feet. He replied I should not buy more than 42 incher for that distance. I said my mind is firm on 64 incher and told him I have googled and researched and found that a 64er (full HD ) can be viewed discomfort-free from as little as 8 feet. Actually, the optimum distance suggested therein was between 8 to 12 feet. I mean within 8, you will strain your eyes and beyond 12 feet, you lose that big screen effect. Needless to say, he did not chose to argue and walked away. And year before that when I walked into MUL showroom to buy A-Star AT, the sales guy said ATs are for ladies and handicapped. Why was I interested?

The point is, salesmen are very ill-educated about the products they sell but that doesn't stop them from dishig out "expert" advices. And even more surprising is, there are people who lap up these "expert" advices. Today's TV salesman joins a car showroom tomorrow and he is hardly educated about the product he is asked to sell. Forget Tata. Just walk into any premium brand car showroom and ask the salesman some basic specs/featues of car and see his amusing replies.

Anyway, I hope my post will not be deleted for digressing here.

[Jakku]

Originally Posted by pgsagar

The ASS needs a huge jump in respect of all car brands. Tell me which make's car dealership is excellent.

I agree, my daily drive is a Hyundai Accent and I am no fan of Hyundai service either at Bangalore or at Chennai (Bangalore is far better than my experience at Chennai). Also, cost is too high to maintain a Hyundai car.

Originally Posted by pgsagar

This is another exaggeration to take a potshot at Tata cars.

I feel you took me wrongly and I am not taking any potshots at TaMo. I love their cars, however I was just quoting on how quickly sarcastic taunts are coming as soon as a report is published in media.

[Ironhide]

Saw this article on livemint today,

Tata Motors’s stern message to vendors: focus on quality

With the emphasis on quality put in place by Cyrus Mistry already showing clearly in Aria, Zest and Bolt (and in the soon to be launched Hexa), I feel things are taking a turn for the better in Tata Motors. Of course they have a fair bit of catching up to do, to make good the reputation sullied by indifferent service quality and reliability claims that has had the average car buyer steer clear of Tata products, even if they were VFM to begin with.

It's a small but significant step in the right direction. Way to go Cyrus !

Cheers !

[RavenAvi]

Tata Motors is aiming to double it's market share by 2020 by achieving segment sales of over 4 lakh units by the end of the decade.

The company had a 10% market share more than a decade ago, when its Indica hatchback was a favourite for personal use and as a taxi.

The market share has now fallen to 5.7%. If it manages to achieve the target, it will return to about 10% of the estimated market in 2020.

Tata Motors unveiled the target before its vendors last week. Chairman Cyrus Mistry urged suppliers to improve their quality and scale to global levels so that the company can compete more aggressively with multinational auto makers.

Its projection is based on the new vehicles in its pipeline and an expected pick-up in a market that has been sluggish for most part of the past three years, but is now showing signs of improvement.

It has lined up at least four passenger vehicles for launch in the coming 18 months. These are the Kite-4 hatchback, Kite-5 sedan, Eagle Crossover or Hexa, and a sub-4 meter compact SUV Nexon or Osprey as it is internally called.

ET Auto

[maverick56]

I am a Thar owner and always thank Mr Behram Dhabar whenever I flick the ignition and hear the growl of the lovely 4x4. Sir, since you are now with TATA motors we would like to hear your take on why we cannot expect a decent off roader from the TATA stable. Since you have conceptualized the Thar from ground up, there must a platform lying around ( sierra ? ) that can be the gensis of a thar basher.

[KreativeGeek]

Why not change the Tata logo for passenger cars to give it more modern look?, especially when cab cars, trucks and tempo all share same logo in today's times it can make a lot of difference and it's good that the future models would not be based on Indica platform