[racer_ash]

So Toyota wants to milk the Indian customer because they think that they are the 'Grand Old' automobile manufacturing company and even though they are extremely rude in their pricing, they want to believe that the old-fashioned, non-informed, 'I dont care about anything but brand' Indian would choose them over the others for the so called Company Heritage or for the fact that the company was the epitome of manufacturing success.

I think such an era is long gone. We guys want what we are paying for and we are well-informed of other choices available and brutally honest threads like this which, if anyone were to go through after buying a Corolla would feel cheated at the hands of the company. Reliability be damned, there are cars from the S and the H and the slanted H stables which are quite reliable. Its high time Toyota play some other practical card in order to attract buyers lest they be treated as 'Oh, just another Toyota!' by other manufacturers.

I think going by these prices we will soon see a thread which says that Toyota officially admits defeat in the D1-segment as well.

[Vid6639]

Originally Posted by IshaanIan

With all due respect, fog lamps, are not something as trivial as fake carbon-fiber trim. I am definitely not suggesting they choose between one or the other. They ought to simply alter the design of the front bumper to accommodate fog lamps while not intruding on the plumbing for the diesel's intercooler, in such a case.

I'm not supporting the manufacturer/Toyota here but do you know the implications of redesigning the front bumper to fit a pair of foglamps? They will need to undergo safety certification again. Aerodynamics tested will need to be redone. New plastic moulds will need to be designed, then new inventory and the logistics associated with that.

No manufacturer will like to do that.

Coming to the point of foglamps. Take a look at the E class and see if it has fog lamps. Fog lamps are not to see in the fog, they are to improve the lighting slightly to the side of the car. They are not a primary feature not even secondary, more like a tertiary driving aid.

There's bigger stuff that Toyota has missed out in the Altis and the fog lamps are just too minor to worry about that too only missing in the diesel.

Originally Posted by deepakv

The driving dynamics will most definitely not rival those of the City, leave alone the Fiesta. Spend that 7L difference on a quality hatchback if you want!

Driving dynamics have improved from the drive I had. More details will be there in the review. It's definitely better than the City now with a sharper steering and stiffer suspension but that said it doesn't hold a candle to the Skoda and VW in that segment.

[deepakv]

Originally Posted by mod_to_odd

I don't favor any car company, I don't own a corolla. But for one I know its a pretty respected car globally. Yes the pricing for the new corolla altis is indeed high for what it offers, but I think we all are being too harsh.

I have test driven the new Honda City VX CVT and booked the car already as I desperately need a good automatic sedan for the family. My dad on the other hand wants me to cancel the booking and buy the new corolla altis bcoz he simply loves the new one. And there is a huge waiting period for the Honda vx CVT.

I took a closer look at the carolla yesterday being the launch day and I took my own time to get the feel of the car from within. The quality is really good inside and out. The car looks simply amazing. Like Desdemona said, most of us have not even driven or seen the car and just bcoz the price is high, we are bashing it. I just love the overall quality and build of the car and the features aren't that bad. The only thing remains now is to take it for a spin when it's available for test drive and anxiously waiting for the review by the Team-bhp experts.

The question we are raising here is - is the "quality" and "amazing" looks of the vehicle worth nearly 7L on road vs. the City for 13L (Mumbai Individual registration)? The driving dynamics will most definitely not rival those of the City, leave alone the Fiesta. Spend that 7L difference on a quality hatchback if you want!

[desdemona]

Originally Posted by deepakv

The question we are raising here is - is the "quality" and "amazing" looks of the vehicle worth nearly 7L on road vs. the City for 13L (Mumbai Individual registration)? The driving dynamics will most definitely not rival those of the City, leave alone the Fiesta. Spend that 7L difference on a quality hatchback if you want!

Man, someone else can diss the City, believe me it is very easy (and correct?) to do so.

I am telling you, as someone who has seen and researched the new Corolla in the flesh and driven the new (and old) City, and as one who has driven the Civic a lot over the years: this new Corolla cannot be so easily dismissed, and is a comprehensive cut above the city (at least in the petrol version). Whether it's worth the premium is for serious buyers to figure out, based on their tastes. Let me just say: arguably unlike the other popular Toyota offerings (Innova, Fortuner) it could very easily be.

The Team-bhp reviewers will have the last and best word on this, soon.

[mod_to_odd]

Originally Posted by desdemona

The Team-bhp reviewers will have the last and best word on this, soon.

Yes, just waiting for the review

[mod_to_odd]

Originally Posted by Vid6639

Coming to the point of foglamps. Take a look at thDriving dynamics have improved from the drive I had. More details will be there in the review. It's definitely better than the City now with a sharper steering and stiffer suspension but that said it doesn't hold a candle to the Skoda and VW in that segment.

Please help me understand a few things. Can you also say that if we compare the New City CVT petrol, with the new Corolla Altis 1.8L CVT petrol in terms of driving pleasure, is the new corolla overall a better car to drive?
And among the two, which CVT gearbox performs better?
I really hope that the reviewer also stresses on this in the review. Because for some like me who want to buy a good mid size sedan, is a deciding factor. My budget is somewhere around 20L but what ever I buy, I should not regret it later. I will be buying a car after nearly 12 years.

Many people keep scaring me when I ask how is the Skoda after sales service and all the time I hear nothing but bad things about it. So even if I were to stretch my budget for the top end Skoda Octavia, will I be happy in the long run?

[n:CorE]

Can't believe Toyota is even trying to get away with this kind of behavior.

I had been invited to the preview of this car. This was the conversation I had with the VP of the Dealership.

On equipment levels:
Me: Looks good on the outside...Inside is a bit fiddly I personally don't like it..That watch on the console looks like it belongs in the Innova.

VP: They have gone for a more sporty theme inside out ...(other words from the marketing blur) ...

Me: Why doesn't this thing have a sunroof and rear-ac vents. And just 2 Airbags?

VP: This is just a prototype display model. The production version will have rear-ac vents and a couple of other things. As for airbags, even the Camry gets 2 of them. These cars are structurally safe and when has ever an incident happen that has caused the airbags in your car to deploy anyway?

Me: *straight-faced*

On the diesel engine:
Me: Its still got the same hideously underpowered engine? My Polo diesel makes much more power and torque!

VP: Its a brilliant engine! I drive an Altis diesel its effortless in its linear power delivery and overtaking on the highway is also a normal affair.

I mean this is the kind of attitude these guys have got. I don't know what is up with them! They know they are getting trounced by competition on the equipment and dynamics front still they chose to just ignore all of it and believe nothing is wrong.

I am due to replace my Altis and I'm seriously considering the 1.8 TSi A/T. Albeit I'm scared to the bones considering their reliability issues but I really don't want to settle for a dynamically underachieved, unsatisfyingly finished, hideous looking (on the inside) car that is sold by sad fantasists who believe their product is top-notch and worth every penny of their asking price which it clearly isn't. How long will they play the reliability card?

Save for the reliability the Octavia literally runs rings around the Altis in every single possible way!

[Nitrous Power]

I have a different POV on the pricing and Features offered on new Corolla. Not that I am defending Toyota here, but think from Toyota's POV for a moment: This segment is not expanding at all and even the segment leader is selling approximately 500 cars a month. Segment has shrunk from 2000 cars a month to roughly 1000. Outgoing Altis used to sell around 300 a month. Now even if with this high price and bare bone features, if they are able to manage 300s a month, think about the Fat profit margin Toyota will be getting. And it's not hard for Toyota to sell approximately 300 a month as the Fleet taxi owners, hotels and corporates usually go for Corolla over other offerings from the segment.

This is certainly not good for consumers but I think Toyota's strategy for India is higher profit margin than the numbers.

[ToyotaFan]

I personally like the car inside out. Honda city looks cheap and I don't like the front look either. And moreover with Honda selling 7k city's each month there will be absolutely 0 novelty. I think corolla commands higher prestige and better overall quality then a city so it's not right to compare with it only on the basis of features.

And coming to the VAG cars I personally can't go in for them after all the horror stories. What I want is RELIABILITY from my cars and not go to the ASS every other day. My innova and fortuner do that and I can't think of any other sedan doing the same better than corolla. As for the elantra D segment Hyundai just didn't cut it out in India where Hyundai = Santro. I know my views might look very orthodox and not like a car enthusiasts but this is what goes on in the mind of most D segment buyers. I expect the corolla to be one of the top 2 cars in the segment.

[Shanksta]

Personally I love the new Corolla Altis, Toyota is finally trying to sell a car that actually looks brilliant and not that their previous cars were ugly but they were just neutral like they were saying,"I am not trying to impress you neither am I asking you to look the other way". This one definitely has road presence and I love the Interiors too. After going through the various variants I feel the Petrol G manual is the most Bang for buck. Anyway instead of buying the diesel and having to compromise on power I guess it would be wiser to buy the 140hp petrol and use the left over cash for fuel.

[desdemona]

This car's design languages for the interiors and exteriors are distinctive and distinguished enough, exactly the opposite of the Skoda and VW, all of whose adhere too strictly to a (deliberately?) dull, banal, LCM sort of design language. Sure they're terrifically fit-and-finished, and good materials are used BUT they are the perfect embodiment of anonymity, and a complete lack imagination.

Or so it could be argued in favour of this Corolla, and even the Fluence. It could be argued that reliability and ASS are not the only stools on which the new Corolla stands.

I suspect sales figures will show as much (not that sales figures, market judgments are always right).

[carZest]

Originally Posted by desdemona

I suspect sales figures will show as much (not that sales figures, market judgments are always right).

Haha! You can't have it both ways sir.

Or do you want to say "I know that the Elantra is and has been the segment leader, and I don't believe a fiddly Korean car should be the market leader and hence the market is wrong".

[androdev]

We just booked a Corolla AT to replace our 1st gen Corolla that ran 1.3L kms. Toyota keeps the price on par with other D-segment cars even though it is low on equipment because they are confident they can sell due to the reliability and low TCO it offers. This car will offer the most fuss-free ownership in its segment. Here is my take on some of the points discussed in this thread:

1. Price is high for what is offered: One is paying for reliability and low TCO. Any Toyota owner can vouch for this. Nothing comes for free (even intangible ones).

2. No rear A/C: They could have added but trust me the AC of Corolla is a real chiller. We have other cars with vents all over the place and we find Corolla cools more effectively than others.

3. Comparison with Honda City: We have a honda city and I find it very mediocre and I never see it as substitute for Corolla. City has terrible GC, terrible NVH, feels too light/tin-like, terrible window-glass that lets all the heat, not much headroom and so on. Corolla is a hugely more comfortable car and almost flawless. The only thing common between them is "reliability" otherwise they are two totally different cars. Most people here are comparing the cars based on specs. You need to live with these cars to know that they are two very different cars. I know there is a popular thread about "D segment killed by C", it is mainly because of congested roads, lack of parking, fuel efficiency and so on and not because of C segments cars are offering cabins that are as comfortable as D segment cars.

4. Elantra: No idea about this car. Not a fan of Fluidic designs. Not confident of these cars lasting 1Lac+ KMs with low TCO.

5. VW/Skoda cars: Love them and more importantly experienced them :-) This time we are looking for "reliable and low TCO" chauffeur driven cars, so wrong place.

6. Safety kit: More airbags would have been welcome. Corolla, helped by it's lack of 'tempting-dynamics', is a safe car to be in. I heard the engineer who proposed to add traction-control to Corolla was fired. OK, I just made that up.

So I don't miss much in the new Corolla and two things I want are too much to hope for in this segment: rear A/C controls (not just vents) and ventilated seats. Camry Hybrid has them but at 35L+ on-road it is not in consideration.

[itwasntme]

Well, I think both androdev and nitrous power have captured the essence of Toyota's positioning:

1. Primarily chauffeur-driven vehicle
2. Superb reliability
3. Ultra-low TCO
4. 100k+ km lifespan expectation from buyers.

Fleet buyers will snap it up. Not an enthusiast's car by any means. Net net, only buyers who retain this vehicle for a good 5 years + will 'recoup' the high upfront premium

[Vahanam]

A lot depends on who is the targeted buyer. Few members have already highlighted on the class of buyer. When someone feels the engine is underpowered, he/she may not buy the car even if its priced lower. One reason which Toyota believed was taking away the buyers from corolla was the looks. So they seemed to have focused on that aspect. Another aspect that we might want to explore is this : Does more features and equipment lead to increased TCO and decreased Reliability? If Yes, then that's the reason why they may not have done much in that direction.

As a buyer, i definitely want Return on Investment(RoI). RoI is different for different people : for some (most in this forum) it is Fun-To-Drive, for someone else it is reliability ; for someone else it is lower vehicle cost. An optimal combination of all is what most people want. But the point is about the most important thing that you look in a car.

I very much would have liked Toyota to reduce the price. Reducing the price signals to the market that it was overpriced in the first place. No manufacturer would want to admit that. Cost reduction plus more features would mean disrespecting the buyers who bought a corolla earlier. It might be difficult then to retain the customers with the brand.

These points are my insights as to why Toyota did not price it otherwise. These are not justification for the pricing. Whether Toyota will be able to play with Reliability card alone? Market will give some us facts soon. Sales figure would give you how many corollas were sold but we would not get to know what was Toyota's target. With Production plant issues (Toyota Kirloskar ) and shrinking D-segment sales, there is no way Toyota want to burn their fingers.