[androdev]

Originally Posted by IshaanIan

You don't seem to have got the point of the recent discussions; modern rivals, while safer, more feature laden, well priced and sometimes even nicer to drive, are also fast displaying comparable levels of comfort and reliability to the Toyotas

I am fairly familiar with all cars in D segment and I can't think of any car that fits your description. Please name a specific car that is a good alternative to a potential Corolla buyer and we have something to discuss.

I am not a Corolla fan btw and I don't recommend it to everyone. But I see people putting down this legendary car because new cars have more features. In fact when I look at these modern cars that you speak of, I ask myself two simple questions. Forget the holy grail of reliability - why can't they have a powerful A/C (that works) and why can't they make rear bench more comfort oriented. Honda City and Corolla have the best rear seats. It is not an accident.

I am open-minded. If someone can show me a car that I can keep for 100K+ kms and helps me travel to work in comfort, I will be happy to consider.

I am looking for the sumptuous experience of a well cooked home meal. Don't ask me to eat at a fancy restaurant because they have awesome ambience, music and food is garnished and presented by a pretty lady.

Do I never eat out and appreciate fine dining? I do, but not as a substitute for a nice home meal.

[rrsteer]

I'd like to add 2 things here:

1) On the average all cars are reliable today. But in my experience and opinion, Toyota's reliability is differentiated from others in the sense that the reliability quotient of their cars, remains high even when put to a lot of rough use and also over a much longer period of use. For some car buyers like me this is an important yardstick while buying a car.

2) Toyota spare parts are definitely expensive. If you are willing you can get original manufacturer parts from spare part shops in Delhi at a fraction of the dealer cost. They import these parts.

[pgsagar]

Toyota is not the only reliable car around. Honda/Nissan/Suzuki/Hyundai are no less reliable.

[Vid6639]

Originally Posted by androdev

Hey Vid6639, I thought are you are a hardcore Toyota fan :-) The fact is there are lot of customers who don't want to see beyond Toyota Corolla. You show me another car that has a proven track record of:

1. rock solid reliability - best in segment
2. comfortable - best in segment
3. confidence that it will age well and serve for 100K+ kms

LOL. androdev, I was wondering why noone has called me out on that till now. Ofcourse I am a Toyota fan. I've had the car for 5 years now and not once has it let me down. Not even an unexpected overnight stay at the workshop. While I don't doubt the reliability of the car, my gripe is with Toyota taking undue advantage of this. Why should someone have to pay extra for reliability?

At the price point, the car is already premium. For that premium why not give extra features. It still won't be VFM cause the other's are offering same features at lower price. The diesel manual is 16.68lakhs. I can get the Octavia diesel manual for 15grand lesser. Ok I sacrifice reliability to an extent but the Octy blows the Altis out of the water in performance.

And the Elantra diesel is a whooping 1.7lakhs cheaper than the Altis. As I mentioned Elantra reliability is on par with Toyota and TCO is infact lower owing to lower spare parts cost. The Elantra uses the Verna engine and it's known to be reliable with barely any issues being reported.

This is what cheesed me off. They priced the Altis 2 lakhs more than the Elantra and almost on par with the Octavia. Their claim to fame is reliability. I am ok with spending 2 lakhs more on the reliability any day. But why should I lose half the features also? Why not give 6 airbags, ESP, rear AC vents and charge the same 2 lakhs premium? The 2 lakhs is for the toyota brand and legendary reliability.

I am saying this after having a drive in the Elantra diesel Automatic. It drives way better than the ALtis, Interior quality is better and the rear seat has better under thigh support with similar legroom than the Altis. Yes, the rear seats are actually spacious with legroom and good support. The new Altis has a slight edge now but a facelifted Elantra is supposedly on the cards.

[mod_to_odd]

Originally Posted by Vid6639

Why should someone have to pay extra for reliability?
But why should I lose half the features also? Why not give 6 airbags, ESP, rear AC vents and charge the same 2 lakhs premium? The 2 lakhs is for the toyota brand and legendary reliability.

I also totally agree on this point. Its a big disappointment. Can i ask you one question? Your opinion will mean a lot to me. Have you driven the New Honda City CVT Petrol? If yes, then how is it in comparison to the new Toyota Corolla CVT Petrol. Also, the New City has the sports mode. So which one of the two feels like a better car over all to drive?

[penpavan]

Originally Posted by Vid6639

a facelifted Elantra is supposedly on the cards.

Hi Vid, we just booked an Elantra for my father. You think waiting for the facelift would have been your advice?
How certain is the facelift happening soon?

[dark.knight]

Most people seem to have accepted Toyota's pricing and design. I am not one of them, neither makes sense to me. Toyota were always believers in proportion and no-nonsense design, their U-turn since the launch of Etios has puzzled me. Etios interiors can at best be defined as a botch-up and now the Corolla. Altis was a big game changer but this one has a retrograde effect.

I'm not one of those who nit-picks too much but this is a car in the 18L category and that's a lot of money. The black glossy smooth plastic, aluminium finish inputs, an artificial carbon fibre finish all put together doesn't exactly scream luxury. It isn't sporty either with that horizontal dash setup with a touch-screen that looks aftermarket. Sure the seats maybe big and spacious but for this budget perfection is expected. The steering controls look oddball.. a melange of funky & formal that leaves some people terribly confused. The chrome up front is garish at best (I prefer minimum chrome). BMW is the master of making understated, sporty yet luxurious designs. Yes I know, much more expensive but I'm talking purely of design.

Elantra is the best value for money in this segment, and with the Civic bowing out there is no Asian competition within a mile of it.

[thesilentone]

The exterior looks gorgeous but the dash design reminds me of the age old Ambassador car's dash

[desdemona]

The Elantra is also MUCH smaller than this Corolla, and has FAR inferior rear bench comfort. Its exterior styling is badly over-fluidic (too severely pinched window line etc), and its interiors are trying far too hard to impress (i.e., tasteless and immature!). Its alloys too are very ordinary.

And: how about we compare the way the Corolla rides, brakes, steers and handles before we leap to hasty VFM conclusions?

IMO VFM is not worth discussing: it is totally subjective, because 'value' is totally subjective.

For me, this Corolla has 'pedigree' with a huge dollop of freshness to its styling, both inside (kind of retro, which is good) and out. Sure, the chrome should've been more restrained, though.

The (petrol) Corolla remains THE car for the chauffeur-driven who also enjoy driving. It is not the global benchmark for such comfort/refinement-centric 'middle-class' automotive needs for nothing.

[prakhar1998]

Originally Posted by penpavan

Hi Vid, we just booked an Elantra for my father. You think waiting for the facelift would have been your advice?
How certain is the facelift happening soon?

It is expected in a couple of months. However, if it doesn't come out, please don't blame me for the unnecessary wait .

I found out here. Well, Autocar has been very spot on when it comes to launch dates, and I don't think it should be any different this time.

I too am waiting for the upgrade, because this car will be chauffeured for me, and damn those cooled rear seats would be a cool feature. Additionally, I find the current HU to be a little outdated, and the new touchscreen OLED display is reported to be wonderful looking, as it has already been launched in Korea. And well, DRL's always to lift a cars look.

If you need the car urgently, it might not be worth the wait, as prices will surely increase with the add ons, and will probably only be available on the top variant. But if you can wait and are willing to shell the extra buck, its worth the wait.

[Vid6639]

Originally Posted by desdemona

The Elantra is also MUCH smaller than this Corolla, and has FAR inferior rear bench comfort.

Well specs show the new Altis has grown by length but wheelbase is same as Elantra and from what I checked legroom has increased in the new Altis but the Elantra is no where near inferior. Our official review confirms the same that legroom is very good in the Elantra.

I'm not a hyundai fan but you can't come up with baseless arguments with no specs just cause you don't like a particular brand.

Its exterior styling is badly over-fluidic (too severely pinched window line etc), and its interiors are trying far too hard to impress (i.e., tasteless and immature!). Its alloys too are very ordinary.

This is your opinion. Others seem to think it looks great. The Fluidic flashy styling is the main reason the Verna and Elantra are doing so well.

Haven't seen anyone comment the styling is bad interior or exterior. If at all it's the new Altis that has one of the most bland interiors in the segment now.

And: how about we compare the way the Corolla rides, brakes, steers and handles before we leap to hasty VFM conclusions?

From the review you will see that the new Altis improves in dynamics but it's still as dull as before. The Elantra is similar. Both these cars are the most dull to drive.

Originally Posted by mod_to_odd

Can i ask you one question? Your opinion will mean a lot to me. Have you driven the New Honda City CVT Petrol? If yes, then how is it in comparison to the new Toyota Corolla CVT Petrol. Also, the New City has the sports mode. So which one of the two feels like a better car over all to drive?

I have driven only the diesel City and not the CVT petrol. I will only be able to test the City CVT in a month's time.

The Altis CVT is very very good. A CVT box that does not feel like a CVT at all.

Originally Posted by penpavan

Hi Vid, we just booked an Elantra for my father. You think waiting for the facelift would have been your advice?
How certain is the facelift happening soon?

Absolutely no idea but going by link from Prakhar it should be a couple of months. If you can wait, it should be worth it. Quite a few changes in the Elantra.

[pgsagar]

Originally Posted by desdemona

The Elantra is also MUCH smaller than this Corolla, and has FAR inferior rear bench comfort. Its exterior styling is badly over-fluidic (too severely pinched window line etc), and its interiors are trying far too hard to impress (i.e., tasteless and immature!).

Are you kidding? The success of Verna/Elantra is largely because of those killer looks. Not just the exterior but interior, too. It has become fashion these days for people driving ugly cars to call good-looking cars too loud and flashy. It's like saying that I don't like Asihwarya Rai because she looks too beautiful. Come on. Extending the same logic, we can all Lamborghinis flashy and immature. Can we? If we do, then it's called sour grapes.

[desdemona]

Hi Vid. Thanks for the efforts on the review and on this thread.

I am not contemptuous of Hyundai, i quite like the styling (exterior only) of the Santa Fe and the I10 Grande which to me shows that Hyundai is 'maturing' as a major automotive firm. The fluidic cars were their breakthrough designs, but worked more in young, emerging car markets like ours. Their styling was deliberately over-done (inside and out) precisely because they wanted to create a splash and impress highly aspirational but 'immature' buyers in markets like India and China.

The Toyota Corolla though is an old, mature brand that caters to buyers across markets, young and old, and needs to be accorded due respect for that. This a priori VFM-based bashing of the Corolla (not by you, of course!) in which we refuse to acknowledge its strengths, which I've been arguing includes design and 'pedigree' and not just comfort or reliability, while we tabulate its poor VFM score because it lacks some features, is wrong.

As I've been saying, VFM-reasoning is not worth this much time and effort. 'Value' is subjective, and in the end an AESTHETIC judgment, an expression of one's (debatable) taste. It should not be a mere accountant's tabulation of gains and losses.

cheers man, and thanks again!

[iceman7]

Why don't we make this simple and add an opinion poll here.

Question - If you were in the market for a new Sedan with a budget of INR 17 lacs, would you buy the new Corolla Altis?

Options - Yes | No

[Santoshbhat]

The new car looks way better than previous versions. So that's a good thing. I am OK with the interiors too. The Corolla's back seat and AC is one of the best in the business.

We moved from a Toyota to a Skoda in the D1 segment a few years back. Luckily our Skoda has matched the Toyota in terms of reliability. For an enthusiast like me, I find the Skoda way better in every aspect. But if I were think : Which was better if I took myself out of the picture and only my dad had to own and drive? Then its the Toyota that wins hands down. It is a no nonsense car that does everything right for the average car user. Yes other brands are fast catching up with Toyota on the reliability front. But I still think that chances of a Toyota breaking down or giving major headaches to owners is much lower than the competition. They are asking the premium for this, now lets see if the Indian public agrees with them.