[Thad E Ginathom]

Originally Posted by nitinbose

The idea behind VW purchasing Skoda is to capture the market and slowly kill the brand, which explains why they've also been reluctant to improve their service and customer support.

Absolutely not.

Originally Posted by HyperRetard

a) That Skoda was already a almost dead brand. Heck, it was considered a joke, almost like the Lada and our very own HM.

Quite. Comedy-show sketches featured Skoda. How do you double the value of a Skoda? You put some petrol in it. It had an unbelievably negative reputation. In fact, it is unbelievable that it was still surviving!

VAG group completely changed all that. It has a place in the pecking order, yes: Skoda is for people who can't afford VW is for people who can't afford Audi, and so on, but VAG's only worry about SKoda in Europe was that it was becoming seen as better value than, rather than a [slightly] cheaper alternative to the VW brand.

Joke to desirable vehicle. That's not exactly killing the brand!

Originally Posted by Ramon

Is this part of a new strategy to introduce the Seat brand in the lower segments and position the Skoda brand in the premium segment along with the VW brand (with VW slightly higher)? With the volumes being generated by the Seat brand with Skoda & VW catering only to the premium segment?

Originally Posted by GTO

Oh please! The last thing VW needs is yet another brand in India. Better that they save & use those resources to improve the state of their current brands. VW & Skoda are doing a lot of things wrong (including but not limited to customer service) and are paying a heavy price for it.

I seem to remember (rather out of touch with UK/Europe these days) Seat as being a much bigger step down in price (and perceived quality) compared to the VW/Skoda relationship. More cousins than siblings: one had to think about it to think of Seat as a VAG car.

I don't know about now/future, but Seat mighthave been the better car for VAG to capture mass market in India

[a4anurag]

Focus on lowering product cost to take on Asian rivals: Skoda

Czech car maker Skoda is focusing on lowering cost of product development and increased localisation for the Indian market to take on Asian rivals, as it seeks enhanced position in the value for luxury segment.

The company, part of the Volkswagen group, also ruled out notions that it is scaling down business in India saying it has been consolidating its operations for an overall profitable sustainable business in the country.

I can see some sense in this move but why are they trying everything else other than improving their ASC standards and quality which play a major role in sales and brand value.

SOURCE: http://economictimes.indiatimes.com/...w/37326687.cms

Anurag.

[aseem]

Originally Posted by a4anurag

Focus on lowering product cost to take on Asian rivals: Skoda



I can see some sense in this move but why are they trying everything else other than improving their ASC standards and quality which play a major role in sales and brand value.

SOURCE: http://economictimes.indiatimes.com/...w/37326687.cms

Anurag.

What I fail to understand is how many people who are complaining about Skoda A.S.S actually own a Skoda?

I feel this is mere heresay, word of mouth and exhagerration that creeps & a majority of people who complain about Skoda after sales don't own one. What I would be interested is the following:

1. Do you own a Skoda?
2. If part that is covered under warranty or extended warranty's replacement denied to you?

Please also note there are many false complains and rhetoric in lot of Skoda rants. Yes the parts do take time to ship to India, yes there are issues with DSG, AC compressors and quality of fuel. But as far as I can tell, if the car was under warranty these issues were taken care off. Unfortunately a lot of Skoda hate emanates in this forum partly because of unrealistic expectations of few. There are 2 sides to a coin.

If you buy a 2 million rupee car then at least have ability to spend 100-200k for maintenance a year. Now one can argue about Honda City or other japanese cars being VFM, but having features doesn't make the car. Its the drive that makes it. Rest point A to point B anyone can do. But when you drive a Skoda/Audi/VW Jetta you just don't go or come, you ARRIVE!

By the same benchmark even Timex, Casio or even HMT shows the same time as a Tag, Tissot or Omega and are much much cheaper to repair. But the watch you wear shows how your "time" is going. (Meri ghadi mera waqt dikhati hai)

Please Note: I have currently booked a Skoda Octavia so maybe I am hoping what I am writing is true..

[a4anurag]

Originally Posted by aseem

What I fail to understand is how many people who are complaining about Skoda A.S.S actually own a Skoda?

I feel this is mere heresay, word of mouth and exhagerration that creeps & a majority of people who complain about Skoda after sales don't own one. What I would be interested is the following:

1. Do you own a Skoda?
2. If part that is covered under warranty or extended warranty's replacement denied to you?

OMG! You seem to have taken this post of mine too personal. I have not offended anyone but just shared a link of the news that I read. If that is wrong then I am sorry. Shall ask the MODS to delete the post.

Coming to your question, my family does have Skoda cars in the garage, not one but three of them - 2 Fabia's and 1 Superb. Superb was never troublesome but one of the Fabia was a pain. After repeated coaxing to the dealer head office not much action and solution was given. Hence we sold the Skoda's.

"We have to accept criticism positively, good for us!" Why can't Skoda think like this?

Please don't take my post personal. It was shared for the whole community. If you feel there is a problem with it, please report the post for deletion. Thanks.

Anurag.

[Thad E Ginathom]

Originally Posted by aseem

If you buy a 2 million rupee car then at least have ability to spend 100-200k for maintenance a year.

If I bought a 20-lakh car I should feel absolutely cheated to have to spend 1 to 2 lakh a year on it.

Rest point A to point B anyone can do. But when you drive a Skoda/Audi/VW Jetta you just don't go or come, you ARRIVE!

Nice marketing slogan.

By the same benchmark even Timex, Casio or even HMT shows the same time as a Tag, Tissot or Omega and are much much cheaper to repair. But the watch you wear shows how your "time" is going. (Meri ghadi mera waqt dikhati hai)

ha ha! you do have a knack for this (No offence: you do have a knack. If it is not your profession, maybe it could be). But I don't think your logic holds good...

1. Skoda, VW and even Audi are not really luxury vehicles, except maybe for the top end Audis.

2. I don't know that your more expensive to repair analogy holds water unless you buy one of those watches that is so complex that there are only a handful of people in the world able and authorised to work on them. Frankly, if you buy TAG, Tissot, Omega, etc, let alone the really fancy stuff, the first thing you expect is that it will not go wrong for years and years and years and years. My Timex just died: it is so old I cannot even remember buying it.

Please Note: I have currently booked a Skoda Octavia so maybe I am hoping what I am writing is true..

I have a Polo. I have nothing at all against VAG-group cars, in fact I'm a bit of a fan. I'm not the sort of person that dreams of Ferrari or Maserati, Rolls or Bentley: If I was wealthy, I'd probably buy an Audi. Seriously!

I don't think that there are many here who would not be happy for you, and say that you are buying a great car. It is not the cars that worry us, it is the VAG companies as they exist and are managed here in India.

I hope you are one of the satisfied ones. Heck, I'm 2 years into owning the Polo, and hoping that I remain one of the satisfied ones!

(PS... I'd be very tempted to buy a Yeti if I could afford it!)

~

[aseem]

Originally Posted by Thad E Ginathom

If I bought a 20-lakh car I should feel absolutely cheated to have to spend 1 to 2 lakh a year on it.

Thats your perspective. If you have a big house, or live in a fancy gated community, you do pay high maintenance don't you? So if you buy a fancy villa maintained by a builder, your bills don't end there now, do they?

Originally Posted by Thad E Ginathom

ha ha! you do have a knack for this(No offence: you do have a knack. If it is not your profession, maybe it could be).

No offence taken mate, but yes I do have a knack of telling the truth

Originally Posted by Thad E Ginathom

1. Skoda, VW and even Audi are not really luxury vehicles, except maybe for the top end Audis.

Luxury is a relative term. One mans luxury is another mans necessity.

These cars are definitely luxury in the context of our country. Maybe not globally, but definitely here.

Originally Posted by Thad E Ginathom

2. I don't know that your more expensive to repair analogy holds water unless you buy one of those watches that is so complex that there are only a handful of people in the world able and authorised to work on them. Frankly, if you buy TAG, Tissot, Omega, etc, let alone the really fancy stuff, the first thing you expect is that it will not go wrong for years and years and years and years. My Timex just died: it is so old I cannot even remember buying it.

If you happen to own an automatic watch, what are the chances of getting it fixed in a local shop? Its not as easy as replacing a chinese cell in a local unbranded watch.

Originally Posted by Thad E Ginathom

I have a Polo. I have nothing at all against VAG-group cars, in fact I'm a bit of a fan. I'm not the sort of person that dreams of Ferrari or Maserati, Rolls or Bentley: If I was wealthy, I'd probably buy an Audi. Seriously!

I don't think that there are many here who would not be happy for you, and say that you are buying a great car. It is not the cars that worry us, it is the VAG companies as they exist and are managed here in India.
~

And herein lies the problem. There are many happy owners of VAG but unfortunately we have all been led to not buy these cars because of fear mongering based on experiences of few. My wife too owns a Polo (trouble free so far)

P.S. I have seen threads where folks/dealers from Skoda read TBHP threads. If you are reading this, might as well give me some discount on my Octavia booking for vehemently defending you. If nothing less please reduce the waiting period on my booking.

OT: Have booked Octavia Ambition 2.0 CR AT, even though running would be less. I was soo tempted to buy 1.8 Tsi Elegance, but in a country obsessed with mileage, it would have had a terrible resale. Here is hoping I made the right choice that doesn't come back and bite me later!

[vb-saan]

Originally Posted by Thad E Ginathom

Joke to desirable vehicle. That's not exactly killing the brand!

Absolutely! And another point to note is that, Skoda was a desirable brand in India with just one model on sale (the first generation Octavia). Unfortunately they were not able to build on it

Originally Posted by Thad E Ginathom

I seem to remember (rather out of touch with UK/Europe these days) Seat as being a much bigger step down in price (and perceived quality) compared to the VW/Skoda relationship. More cousins than siblings: one had to think about it to think of Seat as a VAG car.

I don't know about now/future, but Seat mighthave been the better car for VAG to capture mass market in India

True, but the VW brand came in much later. When Skoda was launched in India, the brand (in Europe) was like how Dacia is for Renault now.

Originally Posted by Thad E Ginathom

If I bought a 20-lakh car I should feel absolutely cheated to have to spend 1 to 2 lakh a year on it.
…
…

Loved this post!

Originally Posted by a4anurag

I can see some sense in this move but why are they trying everything else other than improving their ASC standards and quality which play a major role in sales and brand value.

And I think that’s the responsibility of the manufacturer – to pick and choose the right dealer. And I do think that they are in the right direction in this aspect. For example, the dealership in my city (in Kerala) was quite fantastic when I interacted with them. The group also deals with Honda cars in Thrissur.

[a4anurag]

Originally Posted by vb-san

And I think that’s the responsibility of the manufacturer – to pick and choose the right dealer. And I do think that they are in the right direction in this aspect. For example, the dealership in my city (in Kerala) was quite fantastic when I interacted with them. The group also deals with Honda cars in Thrissur.

Why not have surprise audits done to every dealer and ASC to get first hand feedback from customers rather than filling a silly form that never reaches the top management who if and when receive such issues can react on it.

Anurag.

[Thad E Ginathom]

Originally Posted by aseem

Thats your perspective. If you have a big house, or live in a fancy gated community, you do pay high maintenance don't you? So if you buy a fancy villa maintained by a builder, your bills don't end there now, do they?

Your analogies, although nicely phrased, do not get off the ground. You pay less to maintain a well-built device, because it does not go wrong. You pay less to maintain a well-built residence, because fewer things fall apart. All this is true, so why should I pay more to maintain a car that is supposedly well built.

You confuse your analogy by bringing in the irrelevant factors like services: if VAG start providing you with security guys and drivers, then you can compare to gated communities and serviced apartments.

[diffsoft]

Originally Posted by aseem

Thats your perspective. If you have a big house, or live in a fancy gated community, you do pay high maintenance don't you? So if you buy a fancy villa maintained by a builder, your bills don't end there now, do they?

The analogy is incorrect and in fact illogical. If I buy a fancy house do I expect it to be leakproof during rains? Absolutely yes.

If I buy a fancy house do I expect the interiors to last longer? Absolutely yes.

If I buy a fancy house do I pay higher maintenance? It depends what I am paying maintenance for and how big the community is, allowing some economies of scale. So it could well be lower on a per square feet basis!

Similarly one expects a fancy car to last long, really really long. Fact is Skoda cars go kaput far more often even though you pay a lot. Even if it goes kaput many are not sure of reliable service. It is one true case of a double or triple jeopardy. True there are satisfied Skoda customers but they are fewer in number relative to total customers.

In any case comparing a car to a house in general is a flight of fancy.

Cheers,

[Thad E Ginathom]

Thirty years ago, in UK, people used to say that it was ok to buy a 2nd-hand VW, because although parts were expensive they would be seldom needed. The cars were considered reliable and the potential maintenance low. This is one of the reasons that even used VW cars were relatively expensive.

Move on some time, and even to the present day, VAG companies still trade on this legendary quality and reliability, but the legend has now become as much myth as truth.

[sunny310c]

Before I say anything, let me just say that I am one of the few on here who have booked a skoda and are currently waiting for delivery, in my case, the Octavia TSi. Having said that, I am well aware of the problems that Skoda has had with it's A.S.S and the notorious reputation that they have worked very hard, it would seem, to earn.

Originally Posted by Thad E Ginathom

If I bought a 20-lakh car I should feel absolutely cheated to have to spend 1 to 2 lakh a year on it.
~

I agree. If someone were to tell me I will have to shell out a lakh a year on maintaining the Octavia, I am heading straight to the showroom to cancel my booking.

Originally Posted by Thad E Ginathom

1. Skoda, VW and even Audi are not really luxury vehicles, except maybe for the top end Audis.
~

In the Indian context, they are luxury vehicles. And like @aseem said, luxury is relative.

Originally Posted by Thad E Ginathom

2. I don't know that your more expensive to repair analogy holds water unless you buy one of those watches that is so complex that there are only a handful of people in the world able and authorised to work on them. Frankly, if you buy TAG, Tissot, Omega, etc, let alone the really fancy stuff, the first thing you expect is that it will not go wrong for years and years and years and years. My Timex just died: it is so old I cannot even remember buying it.
~

Can't argue there, you do expect to get solid build quality, reliability and durability at the very minimum for the premium price that you are paying.

Originally Posted by Thad E Ginathom

Your analogies, although nicely phrased, do not get off the ground. You pay less to maintain a well-built device, because it does not go wrong. You pay less to maintain a well-built residence, because fewer things fall apart. All this is true, so why should I pay more to maintain a car that is supposedly well built.

You confuse your analogy by bringing in the irrelevant factors like services: if VAG start providing you with security guys and drivers, then you can compare to gated communities and serviced apartments.

I think the analogy makes more sense if you were to view the long list of features and equipment that comes with these cars as the extra services and facilities that a gated community or a fancy modern day apartment offers. So just as you pay more in terms of maintenance for such apartments when compared to a regular apartment, you tend to pay more for maintaining such a car than you would for a car that doesn't offer such features for the simple reason that there is a lot more that can go wrong on these cars. But don't take this as me making excuses for Skoda, as I am not. I see your point about not having to spend so much on maintaining a car that already costs so much and that is why the extended warranty package that Skoda is offering makes so much sense.

[Abhi_Automobile]

Originally Posted by aseem

What I fail to understand is how many people who are complaining about Skoda A.S.S actually own a Skoda?

I feel this is mere heresay, word of mouth and exhagerration that creeps & a majority of people who complain about Skoda after sales don't own one. What I would be interested is the following:

1. Do you own a Skoda?
2. If part that is covered under warranty or extended warranty's replacement denied to you?

Please also note there are many false complains and rhetoric in lot of Skoda rants. Yes the parts do take time to ship to India, yes there are issues with DSG, AC compressors and quality of fuel. But as far as I can tell, if the car was under warranty these issues were taken care off. Unfortunately a lot of Skoda hate emanates in this forum partly because of unrealistic expectations of few. There are 2 sides to a coin.

If you buy a 2 million rupee car then at least have ability to spend 100-200k for maintenance a year. Now one can argue about Honda City or other japanese cars being VFM, but having features doesn't make the car. Its the drive that makes it. Rest point A to point B anyone can do. But when you drive a Skoda/Audi/VW Jetta you just don't go or come, you ARRIVE!

By the same benchmark even Timex, Casio or even HMT shows the same time as a Tag, Tissot or Omega and are much much cheaper to repair. But the watch you wear shows how your "time" is going. (Meri ghadi mera waqt dikhati hai)

Please Note: I have currently booked a Skoda Octavia so maybe I am hoping what I am writing is true..

• Though your analogies seem a bit extreme to me, I agree with the basic point you are making. A lot of folks, even on such a knowledgeable forum like tbhp, are governed by hearsay. I can bet there are a lot of people who know very little about Skoda cars give extreme views making the situation sound very skewed. While I agree that A.S.S is not Skoda's strong point, the situation on the ground is not as bad as you'll be led to believe if you only go by the opinions offered on our forum.
• The one point that is definitely against Skoda (or any other German manufacturer) is that the parts are generally expensive. While this may be more acceptable in case of Audi (Audi being a luxury Company of VAG), it is not for Skoda/VW.
• Absolutely disagree with your point that if you are spending 20 million INR, you should be prepared to spend 100-200k on maintenance per year on it. Dude, I think that is a lot even for an Audi, and we are talking Skoda here!
• Neither VW nor Skoda is a luxury brand. Period. Having said that, they do have the perception (world over)of providing a wee bit better quality in most departments of their cars compared to Japs/Koreans.
• Skdoa used to be a considered a budget VW when Skoda was launched in India some 15 years ago. That's history now. Nobody, and I mean nobody, considers Skoda cars a cheap incarnation of VW anymore. I say think as I frequently keep travelling to UK and know that SKoda being cheap is an old perception. Most recent cars reviews reaffirm the same.
• I've booked the Skoda Octavia Ambition TDI too

Originally Posted by diffsoft

The analogy is incorrect and in fact illogical. If I buy a fancy house do I expect it to be leakproof during rains? Absolutely yes.

If I buy a fancy house do I expect the interiors to last longer? Absolutely yes.

If I buy a fancy house do I pay higher maintenance? It depends what I am paying maintenance for and how big the community is, allowing some economies of scale. So it could well be lower on a per square feet basis!

Similarly one expects a fancy car to last long, really really long. Fact is Skoda cars go kaput far more often even though you pay a lot. Even if it goes kaput many are not sure of reliable service. It is one true case of a double or triple jeopardy. True there are satisfied Skoda customers but they are fewer in number relative to total customers.

In any case comparing a car to a house in general is a flight of fancy.

Cheers,

I think what you are saying , in an ideal world, should be true. However, I am afraid the real world doesn't work like that. If you buy a 10 cr villa, chances are you'll be paying 1 lakh a month on the maintenance alone. A replacement buckle on Gucci belt will also be very expensive, even though it will last longer. The market reality is, the recurring (maintenance, replacement etc) charges are generally proportional to the price of your product. The reason is simple. Every brand manager assumes that your paying capacity in terms of recurring charges is proportional to the price you are ready to pay upfront for the product.

[bobbafett]

Originally Posted by aseem

If you buy a 2 million rupee car then at least have ability to spend 100-200k for maintenance a year.

10-20% of the price of a car for annual maintenance!

Agree with everything except this. If it is a known fact, then the company should bring this out upfront at the time of sale. Then people can take a call on whether they want to buy or not.

I have owned a Skoda Yeti for the last 17 months and my ownership experience has been very good. The car brings a smile to my lips every single time I drive. But I also live in perpetual fear of the dreaded Skoda A.S.S. inspite of extending the warranty out to the 4th year. If I am asked to pay 100-200k for anything that were to go wrong in the car for no fault of mine, I would be very pissed too. Even if subsequently resolved under warranty.

[blacksport]

Originally Posted by bobbafett

10-20% of the price of a car for annual maintenance!

My calculator says, it is 5-10%. Nevertheless, even 5% a year is too high. Probably, he meant 10-20K.

But, I think I understand what he is trying to say. An expensive car is generally expensive to maintain too. Every part, including consumables should cost more.

ps: BTW, I am not trying to discount the fact that European cars have higher parts costs than Japanese and Koreans.