[s_pphilip]

Originally Posted by troublemaker

The problem with Fiesta is that it does not look nice - says the market!

IMHO, I don't think so and likewise with many here, both the Fiesta's are excellent to look at, there are very few cars on the road designed as proportionately as the earlier Fiesta (classic) and it has aged gracefully, the only downside is its cramped interiors, even the current one looks stunning from the front and has a premium aesthetic look to it.

I think it is more to do with the perceived image, there is a strong perception in that segment, Ford is costlier to maintain compared to the City hence many who shop in that segment can't think beyond cars like City because of the reputation it has built over the years, of course rightfully so.

I think the Ecosport does well because there isn't any competition from Honda or Maruti and some extent Hyundai, as we then, automatically turn a blind eye to others when there are options from these stables.

With Figo word spread rapidly that it isn't as expensive to maintain and Ford also made efforts to present it that way, moreover with a 5 L car spares were expected to be within affordable category, with a 10 L car the prices are expectedly higher than commonly termed affordable, most people upgrade from hatchbacks and it hurts when you have to change something.

The more the car sells the better is its chances to reach a wider audience, since the Fiesta sells alarmingly less, it is a domino effect, it has few fans and thereby few who get impressed by the car, reverse proved by Ecosport and Figo (which did well since launch).
Moreover family guys are easily swayed by the City's roominess.
Since there are more reports of the City's reliability than Fiesta's reliability, everyone fears to be a scapegoat or try something out of the box for its qualities, unless they are BHPians.

I think even Ford for all the footfalls it attracts to its showrooms expects everyone to pick a variant of Ecosport, I don't think they even push the Fiesta, such low is product awareness among public. The car is also not advertised for its strengths and people should drive it to appreciate it, not compare on paper where statistically it isn't superior.

[troublemaker]

I have nothing against the looks of old Fiesta and you can see that it did sell more than the new one.

When I was shopping for a sedan, Fiesta was rejected purely because of the looks.

[CrAzY dRiVeR]

Originally Posted by saion666

2. Only if you are Maruti, you can sell the third world products. IMO the SPARK or even the Nano is a better car than the table topper 800.(coming from a Maruti fan, I bought the A star over Beat/i10 just because it was maruti)

Proves that a car is more than just a product. Like a mobile phone for example - you can't expect to do a Xiaomi with just a good product as your only USP, unless it is simply miles ahead of the competition.

It is about the sales, service, ownership experience, reliability, resale value, comfort, performance, fuel efficiency, brand image etc - a combination of a lot of factors, some of which we can quantify, but others we simply cannot.

[Arjun Reddy]

Originally Posted by troublemaker

The problem with Fiesta is that it does not look nice - says the market!

Indian market has really become unforgiving. Once a failure always a failure. What the auto manufacturers need to realise is that they should hit the bull eye on the first attempt. No amount of refreshing and face lifts will help. There is this mindset in our mass market,that if a car doesn't sell it hampers the resale value. So even if a person loves the car,they will not buy it. Also the primary reason also seems to be the space at the rear. Ford needs an all new Fiesta to get back into the C+ sedan space in India.


Sent from my iPhone using Team-BHP

[stanjohn123]

How on earth are Hyundai managing to sell their 30 lakh rs Santa FE ? If they can manage to sell 200 units on average per month I'm sure brands like Audi , BMW and MB are selling more , why can't we see their numbers as well ?

[tbppjpr]

Originally Posted by stanjohn123

How on earth are Hyundai managing to sell their 30 lakh rs Santa FE ? If they can manage to sell 200 units on average per month I'm sure brands like Audi , BMW and MB are selling more , why can't we see their numbers as well ?

One of my client has Audi A6. Recently He wanted a small SUV/UV which has good ground clearance and can also be driven in city. He also looked at Audi Q series and BMW X series but still bought Santa Fe because he felt the Santa Fe will be also be low on running cost apart from fulfilling his needs.

On the other hand there are also some buyers who may not have Audi, Mercedes or Beemers in their parking but they want a upgrade from their previous vehicle which feels premium and falls under their budget. Many of these buyers have apprehension to go with German brands due to the perception about higher running cots. Then many of these buyers may have already owned Hyundai in the past hence Hyundai feels a familiar brand to them.

So Santa Fe caters two classes of buyers and there isn't any true competition against Santa Fe which ticks all the check-boxes. One option is Fortuner which is too bulky and doesn't feel premium. Others are likes of Q3, X1 which don't feel worth against Santa Fe and these brands have also got perceptions of having higher running cost compared to likes of Hyundai.

[vb-saan]

Originally Posted by stanjohn123

How on earth are Hyundai managing to sell their 30 lakh rs Santa FE ?

Its a brilliantly packaged car, especially the top-end variant. IMO, it should sell more for what it offers. The H badge may not be very appealing in the luxury space, but otherwise its a well-built, safe and comfortable car to be in. And there is a reasonable third row for occasional use, which can go down fully flat when not in use.

[Vid6639]

Originally Posted by stanjohn123

How on earth are Hyundai managing to sell their 30 lakh rs Santa FE ? If they can manage to sell 200 units on average per month I'm sure brands like Audi , BMW and MB are selling more , why can't we see their numbers as well ?

What option does a buyer have? the Santa Fe is the best in the segment and there's nothing close.

1. Fortuner - too crude, harsh ride and interiors similar to Innova. 30L and doesn't feel like it at all.
2. Endeavour - well past it's age in India now.
3. Pajero Sports - Formidable but parent company is a question mark.
4. Koleos - 32L for a 5 seater with cramped back seat and a whiny CVT
5. CR-V - only petrol and very average interiors.
6. BMw X1 - gets you the badge but is strictly a raised hatch back.
7. Audi Q3 - gets you the badge but rear legroom is similar to hatchback.

Santa Fe - proper SUV with imposing size. Interiors on par with the germans almost. Fully loaded with all features. Way better ride comfort with the ladder frame SUV's.

There's no real negative in Santa Fe. They have priced it at a premium but effectively no competition.

[for_cars1]

Originally Posted by s_pphilip

I thought the Datsun is more car for that price, ....
If Santro can sell, just on Hyundai muscle power, Datsun should sell competitively because of the price.

It would be improper to compare the Datsun to the Santro, The Santro (Xing) was especially designed from the ground up (read safety) to meet the Euro standards (It had a market there).
The Santro is a proper fill-it, shut-it and forget-it type of hassle free car. Very good for city use, practical and reliable and very well designed.
Indian consumers have a knack to value practicality. Except that Santro has been around for long and one may feel the design is getting a bit dated, it still has that value factor that makes it ticking in terms of sales. (My personal view is, it is better than the i10 which came later) No amount of muscle power would make it sell if the car is not good.

Originally Posted by troublemaker

I have nothing against the looks of old Fiesta

When I was shopping for a sedan, Fiesta was rejected purely because of the looks.

The previous Fiesta looks were kind of good for its time with a neutral design theme.

The new Fiesta looks very good from the front, looks pretty OK from the side view as well.
However Ford has made the back of the new Fiesta very narrow and tapering. The gap between the tail lights is too less and it is placed too high, it doesn't give that wide stance to the Fiesta when viewed from the back. I believe Ford has to work on this area and give it a better stance when viewed from the back.

In the same C segment, Vento/Rapid looks the most beautiful when viewed from the back. They have amazing stance especially from the back.

[s_pphilip]

Originally Posted by for_cars1

In the same C segment, Vento/Rapid looks the most beautiful when viewed from the back. They have amazing stance especially from the back.

Agreed. The Vento has classic looks and I too like the Rapid rear. Its the Vento front and Rapid rear for me, from side they both are ditto same. :-)

Originally Posted by for_cars1

It would be improper to compare the Datsun to the Santro, The Santro (Xing) was especially designed from the ground up (read safety) to meet the Euro standards (It had a market there).
The Santro is a proper fill-it, shut-it and forget-it type of hassle free car. Very good for city use, practical and reliable and very well designed.
Indian consumers have a knack to value practicality. ...No amount of muscle power would make it sell if the car is not good.

Well I did not demean Santro's merits, this is one of the best city hatches, loads of pure torque low down, comfortable seating, spacious and typical of Hyundai good quality all around, win-win for city commute.

What I meant like a typical car fan giving all cars a chance, I didn't want to write off the Datsun Go without acknowledging what its values are, isn't it a Nissan inside out, over time even Nissan's have built up good repute of being reliable in adverse conditions, so what ever virtues Santro has, Datsun should have them too, only difference being Hyundai brand acceptance and Santro's track record.

I think acceptance comes from sales, its a domino effect, hence people cant talk confidently about Datsun's reliability, over time people will in case it builds up a user base.
To quote what I wrote earlier about my assumption.

Originally Posted by s_pphilip

I think it is more to do with the perceived image,

The more the car sells the better is its chances to reach a wider audience, since the Fiesta sells alarmingly less, it is a domino effect, it has few fans and thereby few who get impressed by the car, reverse proved by Ecosport and Figo (which did well since launch).

[mrbaddy]

Originally Posted by GrammarNazi

Renault & Nissan : LOL You'll are playing "Ram-Shyam-Ghanshyam-Ayaram-Gayaram" with just 1 actor, practically all your cars have the same engine!!! (Just kidding, I understand it takes 'n' number of other things (different VGT, different suspension etc) to make better cars).

Are you'll satisfied with 3% market-share. C'mon if you'll are still beating Safari Storme 2 : 9, you'll have plenty potential at a slightly lower price point, drop a gear (price) & charge ahead!

Service AFAIK isn't good either. I guess since you'll charged heavily on Duster/Terrano and made hay (on sales) while the sun shone, now you're already busy raking in Servicing profits.

If you'll are in it for the long term, reduce prices slightly and improve service costs & hassles.

Great Summary with witty commentary. Enjoyed.

I for one would have been a happy Duster owner by now if Renault followed your advice, alas I'm still waiting for my car upgrade (although I booked Zest looking at the VFM it is offering, but still undecided to go ahead as my heart is on SUV). Although Renault is offering some discounts on some variants of Duster, there are none on the RxL+ that I want.

[coolmel]

Optimistic month again.

Fabulous to see the Mobilio overtake the Ertiga by a wide wide margin. Hope it stays that way. Way to go Honda!

The Punto stock clearance by Fiat seems to have worked and combined with the bookings of the Evo, registering close to 5000 units. They must be relieved, more than happy. With the Avventura, the cash registers will once start ringing in thick and fast for Fiat. Don't be surprised if it overtakes the Evo.

And the most important of all, it is farewell for the Ambassador. Probably will be the last time you see that glorious name on this stat sheet. Adieu old pal, you've served us really well and you leave behind a legendary legacy. Take a bow.

[lalittalwar]

Originally Posted by Vid6639

What option does a buyer have? the Santa Fe is the best in the segment and there's nothing close.

1. Fortuner - too crude, harsh ride and interiors similar to Innova. 30L and doesn't feel like it at all.
2. Endeavour - well past it's age in India now.
3. Pajero Sports - Formidable but parent company is a question mark.
4. Koleos - 32L for a 5 seater with cramped back seat and a whiny CVT
5. CR-V - only petrol and very average interiors.
6. BMw X1 - gets you the badge but is strictly a raised hatch back.
7. Audi Q3 - gets you the badge but rear legroom is similar to hatchback.

Santa Fe - proper SUV with imposing size. Interiors on par with the germans almost. Fully loaded with all features. Way better ride comfort with the ladder frame SUV's.

There's no real negative in Santa Fe. They have priced it at a premium but effectively no competition.

you left out the Chevrolet Captiva - that would be a direct competition to Santa Fe. agreed that the chevrolet brand has taken a beating now in India, but the Captiva is significantly cheaper, and has a monocoque chassis too. not sure if the features would be at par with Santa Fe. a neighbour has two captivas, and he must be satisfied to buy the second one.

[pgsagar]

Originally Posted by lalittalwar

you left out the Chevrolet Captiva - that would be a direct competition to Santa Fe. agreed that the chevrolet brand has taken a beating now in India, but the Captiva is significantly cheaper, and has a monocoque chassis too. not sure if the features would be at par with Santa Fe. a neighbour has two captivas, and he must be satisfied to buy the second one.

I fully agree. GM badge value notwithstanding, Captiva offers better value than Santa Fe.

[Dry Ice]

Originally Posted by lalittalwar

you left out the Chevrolet Captiva - that would be a direct competition to Santa Fe. agreed that the chevrolet brand has taken a beating now in India, but the Captiva is significantly cheaper, and has a monocoque chassis too. not sure if the features would be at par with Santa Fe. a neighbour has two captivas, and he must be satisfied to buy the second one.

On a lighter note, maybe he bought the second one to be a donor for first in case GM decides to packup and leave! (Remember Opel?)

On a serious note, agreed Captiva is a capable offering from GM. But at a difference of merely 2-3 lakhs, for an ex-showroom price of ~25 lakhs, I wouldn't call it significantly cheaper.