[a4anurag]

Originally Posted by gemi_kk

Well, Technically Innova sales have declined a lot in this month. In the Last month, TG state government ordered 1600 Innovas for Public servants aka police. Still the numbers don't seem to be matching. Either the sales have gone down.

Or is it the total count of vehicles dispatched by the Company.

I guess we'll need to wait for the next month figures since what this month would be of the dispatches from the Toyota factory to the respective dealers and all data wouldn't have been updated.

Anurag.

[GrammarNazi]

Simply putting my general personal opinion about the cars & companies. I'll be a little judgmental so if you feel offended, think of it as just the perception of one 'supremely less-informed lay-person'.

Maruti : Won't say about products, but these guys are excellent crowd pullers. Their engineers and marketing department seems to be working in tandem to create an 'appealing' product. The existent perception of brand keeps people choosing them, they're a default choice for many reasons.

IMO they know competition is constantly rising the bar and they'll have to address that by either better brand building or by working hard with new products & keeping service experience top notch.

This partly shows in the 'Ciaz', which is being brought in with a bang, apparently they've managed to tune the 1.3 mjd to give excellent mileage figures (~26kmpl - crowd puller) AND a (IMO meaningless) ~11 second 0 to 100kmph timing.

Their strong presence in the Tier II cities can be judged by the healthy numbers of Omni.

Hyundai : Smart hard workers. Excellently well put together products, (irrespective of use-ability of features), amazing quality for lasting the first 5 years atleast.

IMO They've done something similar to Maruti with their products, although service experience AFAIK isn't upto the mark.

Elite i20 : Already seeing MANY of them in Bangalore roads and man it looks like a stunner! Brilliant design! IMO its a rather well thought out product placed safely in an segment which was somehow already doing well thanks to the feature list of the out-going i20. (Wondering why they didn't keep selling it as Classic i20 like other brands often do). Anyway.

lol yet I know the service (Parts & Labour) is going to be 'Elite-ly' priced too, hence the use of some parts from the 'Santa-Fe' bin.

Honda : They're milking their iDtec advantage to the hilt. Everyone would say the interiors of Mobilio aren't upto the mark, its overpriced. ALL true, but I'm almost certain that Honda will redeem its brand value in the longevity of the products.

Mahindra : The Bolero numbers are dropping. IMO it deserves to be scrapped, its outdated by YEARS now.

Even Scorpio has lost its steam & people are waiting for the new version (which will be almost similar to the present one but with a few more gizmos).

God-knows whether the ~100odd people buying that Verito Vibe car have seen the way its boot opens! Or even the interiors!

Toyota : The 2.5L 100bhp van continues to sell. Perception of 'Reliability' continues to be popularly chosen over something thats 'Powerful for Adventure' (Aria). Similar opinion on the bland Etios & Liva.

TATA : They'd perfected Vista/Manza, but it still wasn't selling due to popular opinion. So they revamped the whole car and voila', Bolt/Zest.

I feel once people start seeing it on road, enquiries will start turning into sales numbers. The present numbers seem to be mainly for dealer dispatches for showroom display units.

Tata's Bolt will be the budget option for those who like the Elite i20 but know about potential repair/service costs.

Promotions for the New Aria need to be more impactful. People need to see hoardings for Innova V/s Aria specs & service intervals etc.

I thought increasing footfalls may give a boost to other cars too, but other products haven't seemed to caught everyones eye. Salesmen should try selling people a "Travelling/Commuting Solution" rather than just selling them a car. They ALL may not buy Zest, but they may pick a Nano for the congested city commutes & the 'other sedan' for occassional longer drives. Something like that, but with wits - not to sell just a Nano to a sure-shot Zest buyer lol.

No ads for new Sumo Grande - TATA Movus, why TATA Motors?

Nano : It pains to see such a competent car not gathering numbers. GLAD they're opening the registrations for the taxi fleets.

Ford : My sincere & honest advice : While the excitement exists sell as many Eco-sport's as possible in India.

Chevrolet : God help you'll, market is getting extremely competitive. Its Make or Break, you'll must decide to punch first, IMO Get a superb finance manager to work with your CEO here & wage Price WAR.

Renault & Nissan : LOL You'll are playing "Ram-Shyam-Ghanshyam-Ayaram-Gayaram" with just 1 actor, practically all your cars have the same engine!!! (Just kidding, I understand it takes 'n' number of other things (different VGT, different suspension etc) to make better cars).

Are you'll satisfied with 3% market-share. C'mon if you'll are still beating Safari Storme 2 : 9, you'll have plenty potential at a slightly lower price point, drop a gear (price) & charge ahead!

Service AFAIK isn't good either. I guess since you'll charged heavily on Duster/Terrano and made hay (on sales) while the sun shone, now you're already busy raking in Servicing profits.

If you'll are in it for the long term, reduce prices slightly and improve service costs & hassles.

FIAT : I own one. NOT overjoyed.

Labour & Spare parts aren't reasonably priced & quality isn't good IMO.
Many owners I come across in Fiat forums have component issues very early in their ownership. Whats happening in QC dept?

Why can't they offer 1.4 T-Jet with the Avventura? They've infact made a heavy car, heavier.
Why can't they bring in a 6-Speed tranny?
Why can't they bring in AMT units from Magneti Marelli?
Why can't they re-bore the 1.6mjd as 1.495L and introduce it as an option in ALL their cars?
Why can't their service centers be closer within the city ?
Luckily, people like Mangesh take steps at initial stages so issues don't get serious. So things are manageable.

Also, HOW can Maruti have squeezed out 26kmpl and (aggressive) "0 to 100 in ~11secs" from the SAME 1.3mjd?

Why do these geniuses tune the same engine so NOISILY and sluggishly (0-100 in 18 seconds)?

I understand the factors involved (kerb weight, some components etc), but atleast make them as silent & reliable as TATA Motors manages!

Instead of making friends & changing the facelift Fiat cars with components that TATA uses, they chose to divorce/'break away'. If the TATA dealers were the issue, why are majority of present Fiat dealers the ones selling Tata cars?

They're the only brand that sells liquor in their brand store! Since FIAT is all about 'driving pleasure', why does drinking go along with a car brand?

Anyway.

[aaggoswami]

Its really surprising to see amaze sell 9000+ units. I thought that that Xcent is more than a match for Amaze considering much better build, fit and finish. Xcent does not look and feel "cost cutting" product. May be the less availability of Honda City might have pulled in a few buyers. But Amaze and Mobilio have done fantastic factoring in what they are as products. Looks like diesel FE grabbed the numbers. If thats true, Ciaz may give tough time to competition in its segment.

Ford need more orientation, particularly on how to sell sedans. Fiesta, even after facelift, just cant bring in good numbers despite being very capable. Proves that in India getting the price right in first go can make or break a product.

To me, overall, the shock of the month was Grand i10/Xcent not selling much. Grand i10 sold less than Amaze even though the former has 1.0 lpg, 1.2 petrol and 1.1. diesel options.

Toyota needs to get out of India=3rd world Anathema. The Etios twins are easily outclassed by almost everything in the market, save for the Datsun GO ( I am yet to drive GO, but never liked it ). Which brings me to Nissan. Even after having strong products including refurbished Sunny (which IMO is not a bad product at all ), they are probably the only from Japan which are lagging in Indian market ( excluding Isuzu ).

[DCEite]

Xcent's weak show compared to Amaze might be attributed to the lethargic diesel engine under the hood. There is absolutely nothing else that justifies Amaze's lead over the Hyundai.

[CrAzY dRiVeR]

Any way of getting the independent sales figures for the Etios Cross and the Volkswagen Cross Polo?

[sadsack]

Sad to see that Fiat has become the butt of jokes. However, please remember that the Fiat Caffe is not really a dealership; its a lifestyle promoting idea and booze is a part of the lifestyle. I am sure they will be selling only premium stuff, not cheap liquor. But they must have paid a lot of money to get a licence to sell liquor. However, it seems possible that Fiat is slowly beginning to sell because the Punto Evo has come close to the three figure mark. The advertising has also become sensible, maybe it is not yet curtains for Fiat, fingers crossed and all.

Tata is definitely a source for worry. Usually there is a thing called beginner's luck which sees new products sell in good numbers initially. The Maruti A Star and Zen Estilo, the Mahindra Quanto and Xylo, the Chevrolet Beat and the Nissan Terrano and to an extent Sunny all began promisingly with sales being around the 4-5 thousand mark before tanking big time. The first car to buck the beginner's luck theory was the Datsun Go which is at present almost in a free fall mode and now the Zest selling 2761 cars after so much hype and hoopla is an indication that it has possibly been deserted by lady luck right from the beginning.

Consider that Maruti said that it has had 3 thousand bookings for the Ciaz in 3 days and Hyundai claimed that it had more than 12,000 bookings in the first 10 days for the Elite i20 and then see Tata releasing a statement after two weeks of bookings being open for the Zest with the claim that more than 10,000 cars have been booked. What does this say? To me it seems like people did not rush into Tata showrooms in droves. And that it not surprising since from the outside the Vista's silhouette is unmistakable on the Zest.

That will probably keep quite a few people out of Tata showrooms and so not too many will get to see the inner changes of quality. If I am right about the Zest, then what awaits the Bolt is probably an even more alarming fate. When I bought a Vista (I own it along with a Nano) my friend's six year old kid saw the car and asked me why I bought this "dabba car" (his words, not mine).

I hope I am wrong but Tata needs more than the Zest and the Bolt to drag itself out of the hole it is in right now. Strategies like changing grills and giving new names worked in the good old days when Ambassador and Premier Padmini were the only cars in the market. Not any more. And Tata is doing exactly that with the Safari by adding Ladakh and Gold to the Sumo. Somebody slept for too long at Tata and now they are caught between the devil and the deep blue sea.

Even more alarming is the case of Renault-Nissan who together are not able to sell as many cars as Honda's Amaze in one month. Forget dragging Maruti into it, that is too unfair. Honda is on a roll and has started flexing its muscles. In two wheelers it is going all out after its erstwhile partner Hero, (who is surprisingly keeping the big H behind them) and in cars too once Honda ups its manufacturing capacity and introduces a couple of value for money models, its just a matter of time that they will steam role Hyundai. What is with Honda and us Indians? Honda should take an honorary Indian citizenship.

[ramassrs]

Once again a very good report!

I did see a comment on Nissan's Sunny. I wonder why it is not being compared with the new Maruti Ciaz as the dimensions of the car are in the same ballpark. In the other thread where the new Ciaz is being discussed, majority of the comparison is with Honda City, Hyundai Verna, Volkswagen Vento, Fiat Linea and others. Dont see a mention of Sunny at all.

In my personal opinion, the Sunny dos seem to be a good car - probably let down by after sales service and other critical parameters that towards ensuring the owner has a hassle free ownership experience.

A lot to learn for Nissan - they have such good products internationally and yet they are a marginal player here in India.

Thanks,

Ramas.

[rajneeesh]

We have interesting times ahead of us. A number of launches with the Ciaz, the Yeti, Duster AWD & FIAT Adventura to name a few round the corner. The festival season will also see more people flocking to the showrooms to place their orders/delivery of their cars.

Tata Motors & FIAT will be watching with bated breath they have launched new products or are on the verge of new launches. How these products perform will shape the future of these companies.

It will be 4 way competition in the Compact Sedan Segment and MSIL will try and get some customers for the Ciaz.

FIAT Adventura, Etios Cross and Duster AWD and the Eco Sport will slug it out in the Compact SUV/ Mid size segment.

I expect the waiting period of cars to fall and more aggressive offers from the manufacturers. The decrease in price of Petrol and Diesel should also bring some mojo back to the petrol powered cars.

Let the fun and games begin.

[wilful]

Originally Posted by baahubali

Sad to see Nissan perform poorly despite Sunny being a very competitive vehicle. What do you guys think is the real reason they are not able to sell? Poor marketing? Poor After sales/servicing? Poor Customer reach? what is the real reason?

Just my personal 2 bit- Nissan also needs to have more of a stunner in Sunny to get more attention to its sterling qualities. They need to take a leaf out of Hyundai.

[DCEite]

Surprising to note the contraption called Datsun GO reaching 1k mark.

Such a dud of a car, there is nothing in it which the competition does not better easily. No safety, no equipment, unknown after sales. Still surprised there are more than 1k people who actually bought it !

[dark.knight]

Suzuki sales are mind bending. I simply cannot keep up with the variety of models with the same name. By Alto do they mean sales of A800 and K10 together? I know the purpose of Omni/Eeco is different, i.e either as cost-effective people carriers/catering vans/medical vans etc, but they are among the most unsafe vehicles when it comes to design and build quality. Yes I also know there is no alternative to them. They have really minted money out of the Omni mould-press as they did with the old 800.

The Amaze sales have surprised me as well. Honda knew they will never be as powerful as they were before the combined VW/Hyundai assault was being planned. They have immediately re-branded from a luxury brand image of selling City, Accord and CRV to a common man's carmaker. Same process is going on in Toyota as of now, with primarily the Innova/Etios keeping them comfortably afloat.

Hyundai has always been VFM, although their cars are not the cheapest. I do not blame them because they give a good deal in the end by justifying the price. To really shake up the sales from their long slumber though, Hyundai has to sweeten the pricing just a bit more and also undercut the immediate competition in service costs/spares. That is one area where they are receiving flak. Eventually they may also make cars with well tuned EPS, stranger things have happened.

[baahubali]

Originally Posted by wilful

Just my personal 2 bit- Nissan also needs to have more of a stunner in Sunny to get more attention to its sterling qualities. They need to take a leaf out of Hyundai.

The Styling you mean? Hyundai has no doubt been a spectacular success with its Fluidic styling across all platforms.

[kiku007]

Originally Posted by DCEite

Surprising to note the contraption called Datsun GO reaching 1k mark.

Such a dud of a car, there is nothing in it which the competition does not better easily. No safety, no equipment, unknown after sales. Still surprised there are more than 1k people who actually bought it !

Perhaps a good number of those are the cars that are churned out of the assembly line just to keep it going. Is the Datsun noGO exported anywhere?

Micra+Pulse+Go need to be in Limca book of records for the near same car failing under three different brands.

The repriced Fiesta has made absolutely no effect I guess.

[RSR]

Thanks a ton for sharing the numbers and charts!

With the Ambassador going out of production and Mitsubishi jumping from the list of mainstream manufacturers to that of small, niche players (like Force, Isuzu, Ashok Leyland etc.) in the passenger vehicle space, we have a new manufacturer (Datsun) being saddled with la lanterne rouge for the first time.

I'm beginning to see some Datsuns on the road now. In terms of dimensions, the Go is actually punching below its weight. Even in terms of engine size, seating comfort for 5, luggage space, suspension etc. the Go does seem like a car from a segment above which it is positioned.

Yet, its sales have settled around the meager 1k mark. Last month, sales numbers for the Datsun hatchback and its rivals in terms of positioning were as below:

Maruti Suzuki Alto (800 + k10) - 21,553

Maruti Suzuki Wagon R (incl. Stingray) - 13,133

Hyundai Eon (0.8 + 1.0) - 6,757

Hyundai Santro - 2,724

Datsun Go - 1,098

Chevrolet Spark - 159

Datsun's idea of offering more car per car in its segment is something that should have succeeded, but clearly the Go's numbers indicate the car is struggling to find enough takers. Why?

One - it is difficult for a new brand to match the presence and spread of the dealership & service network built by Maruti Suzuki, and to a lesser extent Hyundai. Nissan dealers have a limited or no presence outside the big cities. This can be overcome by opening small (requiring lower investment) Datsun exclusive dealerships in the smaller cities and towns. The better performing ones among these can then be rewarded with selling Nissan vehicles as well.

Two - more than this, the car itself needs some modifications done to it quickly. While it's true that the Go may indeed offer the most car per car in its class, it does not feel that way!

The Indian customer has made it clear that he/she buys into value-for-money, and not just low cost. And he/she wants to be able to feel that value everyday as well. Inexpensive cars that don't feel cheap are suitably rewarded with sales, but cars from higher segments that have crucial bits that feel below par (for their respective classes) are duly punished, whatever their other strengths may be.

Nissan was actually smart in coming up with a new (resurrected, actually) brand for their low cost cars. They understood that the Nissan brand would be badly damaged if the badge was put on a car with too much cost cutting and a basic feeling to it.

They got the branding right and they got the price right as well. But they missed the bus on equipping the car with some essential bits and features. Bits and features that cannot be added as accessories, either at the dealership or outside.

A glovebox lid, for instance. How much does it cost? Rear ELR seat-belts, internally adjustable ORVMs, day-night IRVM, front passenger grab handle, cladding on the inside of the hatch, better noise insulation for the cabin etc. These small things would go a long way in making the Go feel like the most car per car (in its class) that it may actually be.

Why not throw in some safety features as well, at least as optional? The Alto, Wagon R and Eon all have a driver airbag on the top variant, and the Wagon R has ABS too. These three sell way more than the cars which don't have them (Santro, Go and Spark). Coincidence?

It's foolish to assume buyers of affordable cars don't value safety. Even if only some buyers in this segment care to pay for airbags and ABS, ignoring them would be bad.

A Datsun Go top variant with a driver airbag, ABS and the crucial interior bits mentioned previously, priced at ₹ 30k - 40k more than the current T variant would find a lot of takers in the urban centres where Nissan/Datsun dealerships are currently located (for it really would be the most car per car in the segment, then).

Datsun can choose to take this path to climb higher, or they can choose to stick to the same beliefs & launch a similar Go+ etc. and literally "go" down the path towards oblivion.

[MaheshY1]

What the hell happened to the City?
I think the sedan customers are now feeling inclined towards a hatch with the features of a sedan (a.k.a. Elite i20.) Not to mention all those features are also come a whole lot cheaper than the City.

I thought the Elite would eat into Swift and Dzire's share but it appears it is eating the City for lunch and then the home made Grand for desert due to the overlapping price range.