[narenteam]

Originally Posted by trek

Superb! That's the way to go. After 4 years of detailed investigation and consumer feedback , the market research / strategy team at Toyota finally figured out that it was the grill that was the root cause of lower sales. snip

snip
Any chance that the management team at Chevy is free lancing at Toyota!?

This was one of the most sarcastically hilarious comment I have seen in some time. I filly agree with the sentiment. I like Liva's space inside the car but it feels like you are sitting a sheet-metal container. The plastics are cheap and the car is overpriced.

Toyota, you can certainly do better!

[sandeep3in]

Originally Posted by narenteam

Toyota, you can certainly do better!

Their Product strategy team deserves a kudos they made it go from worse to worst .Could be that they were hired for it and they did that .

Toyota is known for taking Indians for a ride .

[sivadas]

More than interior, overall design of Etios is nothing short of being ugly!! Take the case of Head lamps, Tail lights, Front grill, look at it from any angle, Etios appears a generation old. Probably the interior adds a feather in its already muddy cap!!
Though car is quite practical and reliable with good engines and lots of space, I cannot stand its looks (new or old).
Thinking of attracting people with this 'Nose job' would be too much to expect!!

Really sorry to all Etios owners. This is purely my personal opinion.

[subratasenn]

I read the thread throughout. No offence to anyone, but I find it rather funny (or should I say ridiculous), specially because this is a Team-BHP thread.

Seems like the central position of the console is stopping Etios/Liva to be a great car. Move it behind the steering wheel and it will become a great car! Wah!

I am a Liva owner for just more than 2 years now, done about 36K km in it. Mind you, it was the first generation car, after which Liva/Etios has added a few improvements. The most notable improvements have been:

1. The diesel engine noise is all gone inside the cabin. Liva/Etios cabins are more silent than even a Swift or Dzire. You can check that out yourself by doing TDs.

2. Driver seat height adjustment is a welcome step.

3. The console has a soothing blue facia instead of the horrible white one.

4. Adjustable head rests are standard feature

5. Dual tone interior, which supposedly adds "class".

I don't have any of the above. But believe me, even without them I find Liva (mine is a Liva GD model) a wonderful car. Here are the reasons:

1. Even after 36K km, not a single rattle anywhere in the car. Name one car made in India in this price bracket which will not develop a single rattle after this kind of usage. This, despite the much talked about "cheap" plastic and "low end sheet metal".

2. Maintenance is cheap. My last car was an Alto VX, and as it turns out maintaining a Liva is cheaper than maintaing an Alto. Service intervals are 10K instead of 5K km. All I have done so far are changing the engine oil and filter. And, Toyota service is immaculate. You just have take in too much sugar with their free coffee, that's all the minus point I have to report.

3. Whatever be the ARAI report, I am constantly having 17-18 kmpl in Kolkata city driving conditions. Those who know Kolkata will appreciate what I am talking about specially when the car runs between south Kolkata and Rajabazar twice during one single day. The car is great for city driving, and on two occasions when I was out on the highways (Once to Mandarmoni and once to Shantiniketan) I got 22 kmpl.

4. Space, space and space. Give me one car in this price range which has more space.

5. Great brakes. Yes, great. I am sure when I'm pressing the brakes. I know where to stop.

I know, most of my grievances had already been taken care of Toyota in the second model (a silent cabin and height adjustable driver seat). Now, Toyota takes care of a few more things which I had always been inquiring about:

1. Electrical mirrors. I think this is an absolute must because adjusting the left ORVM is almost impossible on a car this wide.

2. Rear window defogger.

3. Airbags on all model. Absolute whoa!

Frankly speaking, I am not bothered about the position of the instrument cluster console. A centrally mounted one doesn't make it a taxi. The other Indian cars having this are Chevrolet Spark and Nano and none of them are spacious enough to be taxis. In Kolkata, besides Ambys, the other cars allowed as taxis are Tata Indigo and Maruti Dzires. None of them have centrally mounted consoles.

To tell the truth, I am not bothered about the new redesigned chrome grill too. Nor do I bother about the dual tone interiors. They do not make great cars. Interior designers should be more interested in these cosmetics.

Toyota has listened to us. People who are using the car. It was a great car, now it's a better car in all respect. Results are showing. Liva+Etios has overtaken Figo+Classic. Liva sells more than Polo. No?

I just wish, I owned the new Liva. And of course T-BHP wrote a new review of the new model instead of giving out wrong impressions.

[Shanksta]

I wonder what happened to this scoop I had seen a while back in the forum?? Anyways Airbags on all models *thumbs up* (if its true)!

[charanreddy]

How I wish Toyota had lost that curvy chrome grill with this upgrade.. In my personal opinion, the curved grill looked like the ear to ear smile of a confounded puppy, no offence to existing owners (please).

Toyota has an unmatched brand value, so much that any car launched will find takers. Hope they spend more time at the drawing table for their own sake as well as the consumer's.

[aravind.anand]

Well, Tata already learnt their lesson that the centrally placed instrument console is not acceptable, they changed too. I am waiting to see when Toyota motors will ever learn !

Also, almost all the other companies have one standard design language and a similarity in the grill design. That helps the customer relate to the brand without even looking at the logo. Leave out Merc, BMW, Audi et all, even mass automakers like VW, Honda, Fiat, Nissan, Hyundai, Ford ( maybe Aston Martin-like, but still has an identity now! ) Skoda have now understood that.

Its hard to believe how such a huge company is still making direction-less, uninspiring designs... Just look at Etios / Corolla / Innova / Fortuner from their line up, each of these cars have their own design language and this new grille is more Nissan than Toyota!

[rdhan]

Shocking & Shamefull ! ! The way the two Japanese autos are taking the Indian car buyers for a ride. Toyota calling the tin pot Etios twins "new" , with the 1980s like iteriors & "new" grill . Shame on Toyota. Least we forget the interiors of the Honda Mobilio & Amaze. If TATA can come up with such good looking
interiors in the Zest so should HONDA & TOYOTA.

[Porschefire]

Originally Posted by Shanksta

I wonder what happened to this scoop I had seen a while back in the forum??

Whoa! Never seen this iteration before!!This looks light years better than the current Liva and should've been the facelift in the first place! Wonder why Toyota is still pressing the snooze button!

[vinjosep]

Originally Posted by Porschefire

Whoa! Never seen this iteration before!!This looks light years better than the current Liva and should've been the facelift in the first place! Wonder why Toyota is still pressing the snooze button!

So true. This looks way better than the current gen.

As an existing Liva owner, I do not see enough major exterior or interior changes to create a buzz. Just another really thoughtless upgrade for the highly uninitiated customer. No panel changes for sure.

Initial observations:
- The front grill has changed for the worse IMO.
- 6 speaker addition is welcome.
- VxD for Liva is new; sedan variant already has this. But what are the added features? 15" Alloy wheels, rear wiper, rear defogger, bluetooth enables HU and steering mounted controls are available even today on the VD variant for Liva, along with the tachometer.

It would have been a highly competent VFM car had TKM decided to do just three things:

1. Change the dashboard/ IP to something better. Innova-ish dash + similar IP.
2. Improve sound insulation. Reference: new i20 or even the Innova
3. Better rear seats

[MadAbtCars]

Originally Posted by subratasenn

I read the thread throughout. No offence to anyone, but I find it rather funny (or should I say ridiculous), specially because this is a Team-BHP thread.

Seems like the central position of the console is stopping Etios/Liva to be a great car. Move it behind the steering wheel and it will become a great car! Wah!

I am a Liva owner for just more than 2 years now, done about 36K km in it. Mind you, it was the first generation car, after which Liva/Etios has added a few improvements.

+1 to all the positives you have said about Liva. I own a Liva Gd model too and have done almost 19K in 10Months. Reading your post was as if somebody had taken excerpts from my mind.

I had always despised the car the moment it was launched. I used to ridicule it to my friend who works in Toyota, Never in my wildest thoughts had I ever imagined that I will own this car one day. But destiny had other plans and trust me after driving this for almost an year my perceptions about this car has totally changed.

No other car in its competition offers so much space, comfort, fuel efficiency ( I too get 17 - 18 in Mumbai city traffic) and is as VFM as Liva. I always had doubts that this car won't be stable / safe at high speeds, but trust me this car is rock solid at high speeds.

Agreed, Toyota did lot of cost cutting at a lot of places, but where it mattered the most Toyota made no compromise, Take for instance the Tyres and brakes of the car. The present day best seller SWIFT has so small tyres (L & V Model), the sight of the same doesn't inspire of safe ride. Also in many posts, lot has been written about the mediocre braking ability of SWIFT (L & V Models again). The Liva on the other hand has good grip and great breaking abilities. I would rather prefer an cosmetically dull looking car with superior and safe riding car.

With respect to the diesel engine hatchbacks, I find the Liva far much more responsive and the turbo lag is better than all the others.

I have been contemplating of putting up an ownership thread for this car, but refrained that there will be hardly any takers. But you really got to experience this car to know it's merits.

Mod Note: Team-BHP strongly discourages unsafe driving practices that put yourself and other road users at risk. Please do NOT post about illegally high speeds on public roads.
We advise you to read the Forum Rules before proceeding any further.

[sandeepmohan]

Originally Posted by subratasenn

Results are showing. Liva+Etios has overtaken Figo+Classic. Liva sells more than Polo. No?

You are comparing the sales of a Toyota to the American and German? Going by the success of their higher segment cars (For good reason), I don't think Toyota could care much about how many VW's and Ford's are on the road. Their aim must have surely been to get close to Suzuki and Hyundai numbers. Now where do they stand with the Liva/Etios? Nowhere.

I like the way the Etios drives and I am sure the Liva drives nice as well. The TRD is sweet. However; that is about the only thing I like about it.

As a personal take, I don't like the looks of an Liva/Etios nor the overall feel of the interior. It has proven to hold up well in your case which is good. You saw the scoop right? That is what it should have been from the very beginning. I am not saying this alone would have worked wonders for the car. At the asking price, the interiors are unacceptable.

It was nice to read your views on your car. What speed and rpm do you see from the drivers seat. Let us know if its as accurate when you see the meter console dead straight. Are the meters angled towards the driver?

[S.MJet]

Originally Posted by sandeepmohan

What speed and rpm do you see from the drivers seat. Let us know if its as accurate when you see the meter console dead straight.

+1
Apart from the asthetics, this is a good enough reason why instrument cluster should be at its right place.

[mroptimist]

Originally Posted by sandeepmohan

It was nice to read your views on your car. What speed and rpm do you see from the drivers seat. Let us know if its as accurate when you see the meter console dead straight. Are the meters angled towards the driver?

How can you ever come to know what is most accurate? It is always what you see from the driver's position which is to be taken as accurate.

Originally Posted by S.MJet

+1
Apart from the aesthetics, this is a good enough reason why instrument cluster should be at its right place.

Now based on this speculation you are making your opinion, how scientific?

I used to own an Etios for more than a year and now I own an Innova. From a practical standpoint (looking at the instrument cluster without completely taking your eyes off the road) centrally mounted instrument cluster is better than the conventional one.

I am now a days getting seriously pissed at the increasing herd mentality of BHP-ians. Instead of objectively analyzing the cars we have started criticizing them based on hear say and what not.

Sorry for this rant.

[Porschefire]

Originally Posted by mroptimist

I am now a days getting seriously pissed at the increasing herd mentality of BHP-ians. Instead of objectively analyzing the cars we have started criticizing them based on hear say and what not.

Sorry for this rant.

I do agree your 'herd mentality' statement but thankfully, we have some really good BHP-ians in this forum whose opinions do matter. None of us think that Liva/Etios is a bad car at all! In fact as a package, it ticks all the right boxes - space, practicality, efficiency, maintenance etc.

All we ask Toyota with respect to the Liva/Etios is - 'Why this half hearted approach?". Agreed, the quality might be there, the plastics will not rattle etc etc but what about the aesthetics? Is it not important? I personally find the interiors and the exteriors bland! Sorry but that's my opinion. The Eon which is priced lower than the Liva has better interiors IMO. Look at what they've done to the i10 Grande's exterior design! When a significantly smaller manufacturer like Hyundai can shown us that quality need not come at a price, why cant a big player like Toyota replicate it if not be the leader at it?

Don't get me wrong here. I appreciate Toyota for redefining how people could travel in India and am still a fan of the Qualis and the Innova (the first generation). But they've goofed up big time in the hatchback segment and unless they do something about it, its not gonna be a fairy tale ending for them.